Do we still like railroad ties for arena edging?

My outdoor arena base was put in last Friday, but was not yet compacted when a massive storm came through resulting in 5" of rain in the span of a couple of hours. We lost a lot of the base, but it all washed out from the back end/short side of the arena, which is how it was graded. My contractor is coming tomorrow to repair the base and compact it. I realize that was a crazy storm, but I’m paranoid about it happening again. I have read several threads about using RR ties as a border and was wondering if you would suggest just placing them along that back side, or doing the entire perimeter? Seems a little excessive to do the whole thing, but I’ll totally do whatever is necessary to preserve my footing!

Thanks to old threads, I’ve read to either leave a small space between each one for water to escape, or to place them on a shim or something that will allow the water to drain under. Sound about right? Anything else I need to be aware of?

My arena had to be built up on one side due to the slope of the land. We used RR ties. The footing comes just to the top of the ties. (for the most part, of course they are stair stepped so not every RR tie is level with the surface). The water sheets off and over the ties. In the places where it escapes between the ties I get erosion “canyons”. SO, I would dissuade you from leaving drainage spaces between the ties. My arena mostly drains top to bottom, but some goes over that side. At the bottom corner, there is a drain to the outside of the arena - stuck tightly in the corner where I am not likely to step on it.

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My arena had railroad ties around the the outside and worked very well. It’s been 25 yrs and they are still there. A word of advice, take a skill saw and cut off the top edge flat. An evil
neighbor shot my horse with a bb gun in his side. The horse reared up and when he came down he started to spin. I flew off and hit my head on the edge of the tie. Cracked my helmet and I was knocked out for a good 25 min. Had a concussion.

want to do it once use bags d concrete mix, just stack up, drive rebar down to hold in place… this “temporary” wall was put up in the 1980s. still looks the same

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My arena was immediately edged with sod upon completion instead of rail ties or concrete edging. It drains well, keeps the footing in place and you can ride right over it without injury to legs or hooves.

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Oooh Goforward, that’s a great idea. Is there anything–even a tiny piece of wood–between the sod and footing? Also, how is maintenance done? Is there an issue with the grass growing into the footing? Do you use something like a lawn edger to keep the grass in its place? Is it easy to keep straight lines down the sides when trimming the grass, without some sort of physical guide like edging?

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We tried decades ago to use railroad ties in different places for borders, not as posts and we found out they made wonderful homes for lizards, bugs and mice.
That means snakes also came to the buffet, those here mainly rattlers.
We pulled the ties off and never used any like that again anywhere near houses, barns or pens.

Now, others may not have that concern where they are and railroad ties as borders are ok for them.

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The engineer/contractor who built my arena advised strongly against railroad ties because they impede drainage too much. My arena is also just edged with grass (and appropriate swales) and it drains very well. He also crowned it, so water has a shorter distance to travel to the edge (just 20 m from center to edge rather than 40 m all the way across or 60 m the whole length). I generally don’t have erosion issues except in one little corner if I don’t keep up raking the edges there.

My friend whose base washed out during construction added French drains to that end, but I think that may have been an issue with underground springs rather than a torrential downpour.

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Mine, which does well after hard rains, has 2x6 base boards all the way around. The footing comes almost to the top of them. Just like lorilu advised above, the water sheets over the top.

Leaving spaces between ties or boards or whatever is going to result in tunneling.

@clanter That is AWESOME. I need a retaining wall on a circle drive we just had put in, and that looks like it would work perfectly!

@Libby2563 Interesting! I just spoke with my contractor, as he’s here to finish the base. He advised against RR ties and said it would be better to add rip rap along the sides of the ring the water flows in. He said that will slow down the force of the water enough that it won’t drag out the footing. Makes sense to me…

I guess we’ll see how adding rip rap works, and it there’s still an issue, I do like the idea of having the edging even with the footing so the water runs over rather than creating channels.

Thanks all!

Some of this depends on where you live, and what the surrounding soil/material is.

We are in southern California where it rains hard from time to time, and it would be prohibitive to try to edge with grass- it would bankrupt you trying to keep it green. We have two rows of RR ties- one row installed in the early days ended up not being enough so we added the second row on top of the first- and it works well. This is a court-style arena without fencing so it’s just the rr Ties.

There is only one tie in the two entrances (half the height of the rest of the arena) so the tractor can drive in and out and they do offer some drainage, but we built two significant drains into the lower (engineered lower on purpose) corners of the arena. They are 4" PVC underground pipes that lead to gravel plus landscaped spreading areas outside the arena in one corner and the other leads to the rest of our drain system. The drains are right next to the ties and about 4" below the arena surface. When It rains/is forecast ( pretty predictable in California, it is not a frequent thing) we use a ditch shovel, dig straight down next to the ties where we know the drains are, reveal the drain cap (PVC also, with a ‘leash’ on them) and just pull the caps off.

It is AMAZING how much water can runoff an arena when we get a heavy storm. Sometimes we get some backup around the drain which can create a little eroded basin, but we just fill it in/repair it after a storm. The arena in questions is rectangular, and the drains are in the way-corners almost underneath the RR ties, so if the area around the drain gets disturbed, it’s not an area where horses can really even put a foot down.

We also ‘seal’ our arenas before it rains, which for us is to drag them lightly then drive over them with a giant lawn roller that compresses the footing. Sealing them seems to save a day or two in being able to use them again, and it sure helps keep the footing material in place. When sealed, water sheets off the arena and heads for the low spots/drains and the water doesn’t seem to drag material with it, the rain just further compresses the footing material (sand in our case) into a harder surface that the water gets off of without penetrating so much.

The RR tie permitter takes a little care for drainage, but the RR ties overall have performed really well. They are drilled and staked down about every 4’ with 24" of 3/8" rebar. The ties are also strong enough that if they get bumped with the tractor drag, it just bounces off.

On another arena, we have 2 x 8" sand rails/footing boards/retainer boards made out of pressure-treated, painted lumber. We still have to trench under them for the water to get off the arena for heavy storms, and they need scraping and paining every couple years. They will also bow eventually from the footing pushing against them (steel posts support these rails about every 8’) and will break when they get old if you smack them with the drag.

Both systems are some work, but both do the job, mostly because our ranch helpers are fabulous shade tree engineers and always on the ball to prep for rain. The drain/sealing prep is better than driving home and seeing all your footing going down the street!

There are a lot of ways to retain footing- see what others in your area like and don’t like about their systems and you’re likely to come up with something great!

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I don’t know about YOUR area, but in OUR area, “acquiring” railway ties is now considered “unlawful”. As in, if they catch you, apparently, you can be in hot water. You can not even buy them, even the old, used ones that they have removed from service in a rail line. I phoned, and asked, and was told a hard “no”. This is because of the environmental issues associated with leachate from the creosote. However, they are piled in large piles, in accessible areas next to tracks, and it takes them a while (sometimes years) to come and pick them up, and are not heavily guarded. Bring gloves, and a strong back. They are now being burned for power and heat, so that ain’t exactly environmentally friendly either, IMO. Good luck. I have not used them for the purpose you are considering, as we don’t have that much rainfall here, and my outdoor ring drains well. But I have used them for other projects, and keep a supply on hand.

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well here is a guy you can report in Kelowna, BC V4V 2L7

Approximately 100 - 6”x4” Railroad ties for sale 20 to a bundle. $150 or best offer per bundle

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-buy-sell-oth…3144?undefined

We use railroad ties around our outdoor with a french drain installed underneath. Wonderful drainage. As far as i know, the only state in the US where you cannot buy railroad ties for landscaping use is NY. There are millions of ties replaced yearly and the EPA allows them for secondary use. Simply too many to use in cogeneration plants.

Home Depot sells them.

https://www.homedepot.com/s/railroad%20tie?NCNI-5

Actually, they really arent railroad ties. Home Depot doesnt sell ‘used’ material for liability reasons. They sell landscape timbers whose lifespan is
significantly less than railroad ties.

I also have railroad ties and french drains around the edges and where the ties are. Anyway - I do not have issues with the ring holding water after heavy rains. Sure - the same day we get a rain I have some puddles but they are gone the next day. I do have a little bit of drainage and loosing a little sand in a far corner but nothing major. This arena is in a high area on my property if that has anything to do with it. Sod sounds like a good idea too but what I have works for me.