Doctors Buggy

[SmokenMirrors]

Today the husband and I got a rather good deal on a doctors buggy that someone was selling and he threw in two horse harness’s with the collars. One harness is a breast collar type and the other has the collar, both need some elbow grease, some fixing up but once they are fixed and cleaned, we will probably be selling them.

The buggy itself is in fairly good shape, we will have to clean the seat, go over the wood, fix some of the under carriage and get a new set of shafts as I drive with Percherons.

Here is a side view:

I already restored a freight wagon, a good friend put a new reach pole and brake system on it, I did all the rest. Was a lot of hard work, some tears, but so well worth it in the end to have the team hitched up and going.

[winfieldfarm]

Neat vehicle but someone please correct me if I am wrong. Wouldn’t this also be considered a Sailor’s Wagon or a Courting buggy, what with the cushioned, very intimate seating for two?

Sometimes learning what is what can be so confusing to me…one person says it is a such and such and another says, no it’s a so and so. hmmm…

[SmokenMirrors]

Never heard of either Winfield Farms…if you look on line at other Doctors Buggies, you will find ours is the same. But would be neat to see photo’s of the courting buggy and sailors wagon too!

[goodhors]

One way to tell a true Doctor’s buggy is that seat only holds one person. The Doc just didn’t have enough room in this model to pick up walkers and their extra weight wore out his horse who might be covering 20-60+ miles a day with emergencies, going over very bad roads.

A courting buggy seat would hold two people, and people back then were usually smaller than people today. So seat might appear tight now, but was actually roomy for those smaller people back then.

Both the Courting and Doctor style can be on the same running gear, same body, just different seats. Folding tops were common options on these vehicles.

Saylor Wagon is a totally different body style. A search for Saylor Wagon turned up this photo.

http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2473555140049120977FdNyjJ

[SmokenMirrors]

The Saylor Buggy is a neat looking vehicle, but not what we have. Thanks for the photo. Our seat on the doctors buggy only holds one, I had commented on it when I got into it once the hubby brought it home.

At any rate, can’t wait to fix it up and take it out for a drive on our back rode, I am sure a few of the older folks where we are will surely know what it is and will have some, hopefully, fond memories of days gone by.

[Drive_NJ]

What a nice find and the vehicle (from outward appearances) looks to be in pretty good condition

It is what I would generically call a
“buggy” or runabout
a 4 wheel vehicle with full reach and usually not cutunder
also usually with a single bench-like seat that seats 2 people

These were the “everyman’s carriage” before the advent of the Model-T

They came in a variety of styles of box, springs, seat and came with or without top - all depended on what you used it for and how much you could spend

Yours is nice as it has the covered back of the box

These vehicles were called everything from Buggy to Democrat, Runabout, Driving Wagon, Courting Buggy, Pianobox, runabout, Coalbox Runabout (distinctive lines, but also lots of variation), you name it

The seats came fully upholstered, or just a seat cushion with a narrow upholstered rail back. Might have spindles to make them fancier

All these were like the option packages on ordering your new car

[butlerfamilyzoo]

LOVE that saylor buggy pictured.

Congrats on the find! You’ll have to show it to us finished. I saw one of these (with a folding top) at an auction it had a royal purple colored cushion and purple pin striping, very tastefully done, but i thought the black/purple combo was nice. Something different than the typical burgundy you see everywhere. Would have looked sharp behind a gray or a black horse!

[fivehorses]

I have something very similar, and when it was sold to me, I was told it was an Autoseat. It was modeled after the modelT, or something to that effect.

I also understand that leaving antiques in ‘original’ condition preserves the value. Isn’t the same true for carriages and carts?, and sleighs!

[goodhors]

Having a vehicle in “original condition” can be desired by some buyers. The kind of vehicle, special models, EXPENSIVE models, the better name brands, is where original condition can be a HUGE factor in price. Original condition on those kind usually does sell better than restored. Some collectors only do original condition vehicles. Restored has to be done correctly, with appropriate colors, upholstery fabrics and doing tucks with buttons over smooth can be very important to the collectors. That gets real expensive fast.

On things like Runabouts the cost of restoration is going to cost more to get done, than what the vehicle will sell for. Unrestored runabouts are usable, but not real nice looking, so most folks opt to “fix them up” somehow. Value seems to remain about the same, few hundred dollar difference between a runabout in original condtion or repainted and redone. Colors of paint can be a big feature, some paint choices are just bad, while other colors don’t sell well in certain areas. For some reason almost all local runabouts are red and black. Have seen lots of yellow and black in other places.

So for me, unless runabout was a special model, or by a special maker like Brewster, leaving it original would be overridden by a need to have a safe using vehile. I would probably repaint after fixing the other parts up. Runabouts are like Model T’s used to be, LOTS of them out and about, not that special. Not usually a high money vehicle.

[Thomas_1]

That’s a nice little vehicle and I’m absolutely with Goodhors opinions re whether to “repair” or “restore” or keep original.

Repair is ordinarily the most practical, viable and totally acceptable option unless it’s an extremely rare vehicle by a top quality sought after collectable manufacturer.

Truthfully I get asked a lot if I want original vehicles and often for free. Most often the answer is “no thanks”. UNLESS it’s a jewel of a find and I’ve only had 3 of those of my own in my lifetime and they cost me a heck of a lot more to restore than I’d ever be able to recover on selling. Or else from time to time if it’s a vehicle like the one shown here that’s a nice neat little vehicle and could be used in private showing classes with repairs and high quality paint finish then I’ll take it if I’ve got a buyer lined up and am confident I can do the work and sell for a profit.

The main thing to appreciate though is that a good quality paint job alone is going to be approx £700 and replacement wheels need to be allowed for at up to £1,000 each (dependent on size and what sort of tyre). I know that prices don’t vary significantly in the USA. So just needs the conversion rates doing.

I can’t see what the wheel condition is like from the photo but that’s the thing to always check on old vehicles.

It’s a rarer than rocking horse poo to find any vehicle over 40 years old that has wooden wheels that are still fit for purpose.

I’m also struggling to see what you have to attach the traces to? Is it a splinter bar or a swingle tree?

(I hope you call splinter bars and swingle trees same as we do but let me know if not and I’ll explain)

[Trakehner]

[QUOTE=Thomas_1;4992760]
. I’m also struggling to see what you have to attach the traces to? Is it a splinter bar or a swingle tree?[/QUOTE]

There will be fittings on the front axel where the shafts will attach, the swingletree will be on the crossbar between the two shafts.

[SmokenMirrors]

Ah Trakehner answered the question before I could. Thank you!

We are very fortunate that if there is ever a question about the wheels, we have a wheel company that is Amish run who fix them. The freight wagon that I restored had part of the fellows and spokes redone, there was rot under them, their pricing was reasonable too.

[Thomas_1]

Out of interest what do they charge for a new wheel with traditional clincher rail and cab tyre.

[Drive_NJ]

A very rough guestimate for a new wooden wheel from Witmers in PA
48 inch
fitted with rubber tire
and flush hub roller bearing
is about $200+
a new 1 inch axle for the same wheel is not bad at around $50

With older vehicles you need to check two things on the wheels
the condition of the wood - fellows and spokes
AND
the condition of the hub
a lot of times the hub will wear unevenly over the years and even extra packing with the leather washers wont let it run true

then your decision is having the hub refitted to keep it in the old style or to just replace the axles and wheels

a lot will depend on the overall condition of the wood in the wheels

For a runabout - changing out the wheels is really not going to have much effect on the value

and unless you have an exceptional vehicle - there is not a huge demand
so fix it up to suit you own needs and enjoy it

a lot of runabouts ride MUCH better than a lot of modern vehicles - they just dont have the same scope for tight twisty fast turns - like an obstacle course - but then they werent designed for that either.

[buck22]

can’t add anything on resto, but what a handsome vehicle!! I am smitten, just beautiful. So glad you’re making the effort to restore something so special to a certain time in our history.

[SmokenMirrors]

Thanks Buck! I really do enjoy the hands on aspect of all of this…if your interested…here is the freight wagon I did…we believe it is a Thornhill Wagon but because there was no identifying plate or writing, we can only assume by the way it was made and the color I found when I started to sand it all down.

This is with my team of Percherons:
http://i669.photobucket.com/albums/vv57/GreySorrel/237.jpg

And side view with detailing:
http://i669.photobucket.com/albums/vv57/GreySorrel/242.jpg

[buck22]

WOW. A labor of love that is, gorgeous work. It must be so fufilling.

[elysian_fields_farm1]

Neat Buggy

SmokenMirrors- What a nice buggy! Does it have a top? If it didn’t come ith one, can you tell if it had one in the past?

What are you all going to use of for? I could not tell, but it looked like the upolstry isn’t in very good shape. Will you have to replace it?

[SmokenMirrors]

[QUOTE=elysianfieldsfarm;4996783]
SmokenMirrors- What a nice buggy! Does it have a top? If it didn’t come ith one, can you tell if it had one in the past?

What are you all going to use of for? I could not tell, but it looked like the upolstry isn’t in very good shape. Will you have to replace it?[/QUOTE]

There are places that a top can be put on it and yes, we will be getting a top in the grand scheme of things. The husband has sat down, gone over it again, then made a list of everything he wants to do to it, yes, he is going to do the work. We will also be replacing the seat upholstering with real leather, but in a dark hunter green so it is in our farm color. The shafts and parts to replace that will also be ordered in draft size too.

As for what to use it for, I may show it in antique driving classes or tootle around our property and take the older folks on our road for a ride. Not too sure yet. I may even use it at a few of the driving club drives if the ground is smooth and allows for it.

Thomas…the freight wagon that I restored is about 100 years old and only the one wheel that had part of the fellows and a few spokes replaced, the other 3 wheels only had to have the metal band around them tightened, the drum itself was fine on all 4. So we got very lucky in that aspect.

[Thomas_1]

![]('ve got a London Trolley that is just ready for it’s fancy paint job.

I’ve done 2 sets of wheels for it. Pneumatics (because that’s what the owner wanted) and traditional ones for showing in trade classes put to a shire or a suffolk punch and when it’s all completed.

Once it’s painted then I’ve another trade cart that will end up a lot fancier as it’s got quite ornate woodwork to be repaired.

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a205/classic_carriages/driving/LondonTrolley.jpg)