Someone asked me this the other day and I had to say that I had never really thought about it before. I just ‘did’ it.
When you are working at the canter over poles do you ride them as if they are ‘jumps’ or do you ride them as if they weren’t there aside from trying to find a decent distance to them so the horse doesn’t straddle them? I’m not talking about 2 point, but the canter and the way you view the pole. IF you ride them like jumps, do you ride them like small jumps, or big jumps (see a lower question for more thoughts on small/big jumps)
And as a branch off from that, is your flatting canter and jumping canter the same? Do you always school as if you could jump a jump if someone plunked one down 3 strides away (again, does this change if it’s were to be a big jump or small ump)? Do you have the same speed, impulsion, bounce, shape when flatting as when jumping?
And as a branch off that, do you ride small jumps the same as larger jumps? Do you try to have a canter that is superbly packaged (obviously the way the horse is packaged depends on how he prefers to go) with tons of impulsion that you could jump a 4’+ fence over a 2’9 jump? Does it change depending on the exercise you are working on (say doing technical exercises, rather than course work)?
Do you feel it’s beneficial to school different canters as long as the horse is between the aids enough that you could immediately create an on course canter or is the on course canter the only one you aim for (obviously on course your canter needs to be adjustable so your on course canter can be more forward or more collected)?
I absolutely treat poles as jumps. I set them as bending lines, I make pole oxers, I make pole bounces, lines of related distances etc etc. It is a way for me to work on my jumping skills without taxing my horse too much. Poles are a wonderful learning tool.
[QUOTE=Ponyclubrocks;7393650]
I absolutely treat poles as jumps. I set them as bending lines, I make pole oxers, I make pole bounces, lines of related distances etc etc. It is a way for me to work on my jumping skills without taxing my horse too much. Poles are a wonderful learning tool.[/QUOTE]
Not really what I meant. I’m asking about the canter and the way you ride them, not about what you set with them.
Sorry, thought that it was inherent in my reply, yes they are set as jumps and ridden as jumps.
A bit of both. We ride to it like a a jump (working on track etc) in a lighter seat (not 2-PT) but the idea is if done properly the pole is just another stride. Nothing changes over it.
I do both. Sometimes to “spice up” my dressage schooling sessions, particularly in the winter, I set up trot poles at different spacings to help produce different types of trots. I might also set up trot poles on a fan, with 3’ spacing on one end and 6’ on the other to create transitions within the gait.
On other days, I’ll ride in jump tack and ride over poles as if jumping. Sometimes I set them up randomly and canter over, expecting my horse to act like they aren’t there. At other times, I’ll set up the “circle of death” except with poles or I might do a course of poles to work on my eye. That way I’m practicing certain elements of jumping, but without actually having to jump more frequently.
Most of the time, yes, I view poles as jumps. I set the pole distances for the working/jumping canter that I create for jumping a course if that is my goal for that schooling session. Just like Ponyclubrocks, I’ll create bending lines, rollbacks, and mimic actual courses with poles.
However, I also incorporate them as more flat-work oriented - i.e. getting my horse to mind his feet, stretch his walk a bit, or extend a bit more at the trot by setting the stride between the poles a teeny bit longer than his ‘not trying’ trot stride. It definitely depends on what your focus is.
Regarding your questions on different canter strides - no, I do not jump a, say, 2’3" course at the same canter as I would a 3’ or higher course. That’s not to say that I allow my guy to canter around sloppily or slowly, but he’s so big that he can just reach over most jumps under 2’9" (with the exception of oxers) and doesn’t give a big effort because he knows he can clear them without exertion. So as long as he has decent impulsion, I don’t require the packaged canter that I would otherwise.
I also think that schooling different canters is very beneficial for both you and the horse, as it requires the horse to pay attention to your aids and also makes you much more aware of the strength of your aids and what you are asking for.
Again, people seem to maybe be not understanding my question, or maybe not being totally clear in their answers. I’m not talking about how poles are set up, not talking about making sure you are riding a good track, or working on your eye. I’m specifically asking if the canter you work on over poles is what you would take to a true jump (especially a jump of height, if you ride small jumps and big jumps from different canters). This is a CANTER question, and a little bit of position question (if you change your position from flatting to jumping).
If you were to ride a bunch of 4’ jumps would you canter be the same over a bunch of poles laid out in the same way (distances adjusted to make up for not having a jump, so needing a bit less take off and landing)
[QUOTE=NurseHorsey;7393706]
Most of the time, yes, I view poles as jumps. I set the pole distances for the working/jumping canter that I create for jumping a course if that is my goal for that schooling session. Just like Ponyclubrocks, I’ll create bending lines, rollbacks, and mimic actual courses with poles.
However, I also incorporate them as more flat-work oriented - i.e. getting my horse to mind his feet, stretch his walk a bit, or extend a bit more at the trot by setting the stride between the poles a teeny bit longer than his ‘not trying’ trot stride. It definitely depends on what your focus is.
Regarding your questions on different canter strides - no, I do not jump a, say, 2’3" course at the same canter as I would a 3’ or higher course. That’s not to say that I allow my guy to canter around sloppily or slowly, but he’s so big that he can just reach over most jumps under 2’9" (with the exception of oxers) and doesn’t give a big effort because he knows he can clear them without exertion. So as long as he has decent impulsion, I don’t require the packaged canter that I would otherwise.
I also think that schooling different canters is very beneficial for both you and the horse, as it requires the horse to pay attention to your aids and also makes you much more aware of the strength of your aids and what you are asking for.[/QUOTE]
This is more towards the answers I am looking for. Thank you.
I will try to answer your questions from the perspective of an older rider on a very made older horse, who is quiet and a packer. We plunk around the 2’6" hunters, where to me, my best ribbons come with an even rhythm all the way around the course. And where I do as little “riding” as possible. My best ribbons come when we keep the same canter, so I don’t really get having to adjust. For me, it is just staying the same and trying to know what is going to happen. I do not really look for a distance.
I spend much of my riding time encouraging him to be easy for me. I have two poles, three and one half strides apart, along one side of my arena. I constantly canter them to calibrate my canter to his “show course” canter. This is a canter that gets me down the lines nicely, and personally I think it is much easier to cover a not so perfect distance if you have a little pace. I almost always ride in the quality of canter I want for jumping a course. If not, I am doing a specific exercise, such as lenghtening and shortening, or counter cantering. I never let him pick along in a lazy slow canter. Yes, I often ask myself when cantering, is this the balance and pace I want if a jump were in front of me. But again, my personal idea of “fun” in riding is to let my guy do his job and I do nothing. I suppose I do treat poles as “jumps” but I don’t care if his front feet come right to the first one. I don’t really think of them as practice for my ‘eye" however, because they force me to look to low on the ground. (I look at the top rail on course). I recall my 3’ and 3’6" days, and I don’t recall doing hings much differently. My 3’6" horses had natural 3’6" horse strides, though, so it was similar in that I could pretty much keep the same canter all the way around.
Here he is packing and me doing nothing:
I ride the poles/ cavalitti with an exaggerated canter for what the horse needs
ex. my jumper, we have an excessively uphill canter and we only ever get the deep distance, he is a horse that is always game to move up and take the long one so I make him practice the thing that is hard for him/ us.
Hunter 1 practices both the deep distance for his hind end which is naturally a little weak, and the move up to a normal distance (because with him, my impulse is to bring him together for the add, we sometimes practice going forward to the ‘jump’) Hunter 2 practices transitions within the gait, so we’ll go once around collected and then the next time we move up.
different courses (or sometimes the same courses) need different canters, the pole or cavalitti pushed the horse mentally without stressing joints. I don’t really think of my jumping canter or my flatting canter, but rather my on stride canter, my collected canter and my extended canter (and of course the weak canter)
I almost always ride poles as part of my flatwork. I don’t ever consider them anything close to a jump unless I have a pole into a gymnastics line (of jumps, not more poles). I ride a much great variety of canters to poles than I do to jumps.
When I do flatwork I have a couple of canters I use. The first 20ish minutes of every ride on every horse is long and low stretchy work. That canter is a long and low canter that isn’t one I would want to canter jumps from. I do sit up and collect the horses a bit in the corners, and then we gallop out of the corners. I suppose I could jump from the canter in the corners, but the whole point is to garner the advantages of the transition from gallop to (somewhat) collected and vice versa. I often canter over poles during this part of my warmup just because they’re there and it changes up things a bit (the warm-ups tend to get a little monotonous for me since I do 3 or 4 of them in succession every day).
After the long and low, I go to my collection/connection work. When I canter during this part of my flatwork it’s the same canter I use to jump. I want a “leap-y” canter every single step of the way. I do lots of transitions during this work (canter to trot, canter to walk, canter to halt, and lots of upwards as well). If someone plunked down a jump three strides in front of us I would be ready for it. I also canter over poles from this canter. I still treat them as a part of flatwork and ride as though nothing is there.
In regards to fence height, I would like to say that I jump all fences the same, but that would be the theory much more than actual practice :lol:. When the fences are little (<4’) I RIDE a lot more. I keep the horse more packaged and focus on the horse staying round over the jumps and retaining lots of adjustability. When the fences get bigger (4’3"+) I tend to let them do a lot more on their own. Typically I’ve warmed up over smaller jumps and have already worked on softness, roundness, straightness (and whatever else is required) and then when I put the fences up it’s more about allowing the horse to have a bigger say in the equation with the goal of having them remain fairly consistent as we transition to larger jumps. But to your actual question, I could always canter a 4’ jump from the canter I approach ANY fence with. A 5’ vertical might change things a bit (depends on the horse).
The majority of the time when I do pole work I’m working out of a more collected canter. I think of them more of a gymnastic exercise. I might get off of their back and canter a pole or a line of poles a few times at a 3’ - 3’6" pace, but I don’t see doing pole work at a 4’ pace being very productive.
Thanks for the replies. The last several are much more what I was looking for answer wise.
How often do you do pole work versus straight flat rides (with no poles)? Or do you almost always incorporate at least a pole or 2?
Here’s a different way of answering but may be clearer: when I’m jumping, if I’m struggling to find the right canter or my horse is getting strung out, I go back to cantering poles a few times to get our canter back. If I can canter through, say a 3 to a 1 set in poles and not trip over them and hit them all evenly, I know I have the right canter to jump. And the jumps can be big or little.
I set them like jumps but ride them like they aren’t there. It is absurd to make a big move with your upper body into two point and throw your hands forward for a giant crest release like some people do for a pole on the ground.
As for pace, I go whatever pace I am working on, and usually cycle through several. Most of the time I use them to train adjustability and balance, so one go through I do six strides, the next five then six, etc. I don’t have a single pace I use for poles, I use all sorts of paces, frames, etc.
[QUOTE=yellowbritches;7394465]
Here’s a different way of answering but may be clearer: when I’m jumping, if I’m struggling to find the right canter or my horse is getting strung out, I go back to cantering poles a few times to get our canter back. If I can canter through, say a 3 to a 1 set in poles and not trip over them and hit them all evenly, I know I have the right canter to jump. And the jumps can be big or little.[/QUOTE]
The above is really helpful for me.
For me, poles are most illustrative when it comes to figuring out which canter is which and how to ask for it. I will ride them in a loose canter (not pushing, not collecting), a forward canter, an “oops I didn’t quite get there, THIS is my jumping canter” canter, a collected canter, etc. I’ll try to get a four in three and five. It helps my horse with adjustability and me with learning what to ask for and how to ask for it.
My trainer often has us start an exercise by cantering the poles before setting up the jumps, so she wants to see that forward jumping canter.
I’m only jumping about three foot at the moment so YMMV.
If you edit the title, you might get a few more responses closer to the mark.
[QUOTE=ElisLove;7394457]
How often do you do pole work versus straight flat rides (with no poles)? Or do you almost always incorporate at least a pole or 2?[/QUOTE]
I rarely incorporate poles into my rides. But this is largely because I’m too lazy to set poles separate from the jumps that are in my ring (I hate deconstructing jumps and I also hate having to move poles again for my nightly drag).
But when I do get around to setting them, whether they’re sets of trot poles, single poles, or something else, I’ll use them if they’re convenient maybe once every 2 or 3 times around. And for sure every single time I ride for the few days they last in the ring.
I also occasionally set tiny crossrails for my daughter to jump on her pony. I use those as a walking exercise and circle over them at the walk several times in each direction at the beginning of every ride until the tiny crossrails get turned back into “real” jumps.
If you want a number, I would guess that I use poles in my rides maybe 5-10% of the time on any given horse. And that’s done in fits and starts (1 week of poles and then 4 weeks before I pull them out again). I used to do it more often when my top horse benefitted from cavaletti/trot poles. But my top horse now can’t trot poles (seriously can. not. do. it., and not for lack of me trying!), and so I’ve gotten into a rut of not ever setting them out.
I’ve been using them several times a week as cavaletti- with the ends up on short boxes- with both my horses. I do different exercises with them to work on responsiveness and building strength behind. One of my favorites is to canter around the corner, do a few strides, then break to a trot to go through the poles in a collected frame, then canter afterward. I have a young horse who needs to figure out how to carry himself on a collected canter stride, and an older horse who needs to pay attention to where his feet are at any given point.
I rarely canter poles by themselves- both of my horses have their changes- but if I do it is to work on my eye or shortening or lengthening their canter stride (or both). Therefore, when I canter poles (outside of a jumping grid) I do it as if they are jumps.
