I have two Antares saddles…a medium and wide tree with a narrow twist. I LOVE them both - FOR ME. However, I have been having back issues with a few of my horses, and finally realized why!! The gullets in these saddles are too narrow. I can hardly get three squeezed together fingers in them,…and only two fingers in my reflocked WIDE tree saddle!
I have an old Crosby that I hate and they love…because it has about four fingers of space between the center of the gullets.
I’m sure I need to replace these saddles…but wonder if a “narrow twist” has anything to do with the narrow gullets?
My bigger problem is my 17.2h Oldenburg who is now 14 and is now hollowing out behind his shoulders…These saddles just press right on his spine!!
Ideas???
The twist of the saddle is like the roof on the house. The size of the roof at it’s bottom has nothing to do with the various angles that can be used to get to its peak.
^Yeah, well, there still needs to be some vertical distance between the wide horse and the tippy top of the roof/twist.
So, if you want
1.) a narrow twist
on
2.) a wide horse
and
3.) still be reasonably close to the horse
then…pick any two.
Personally, I don’t understand the obsession in the English disciplines with a narrow twist. Somehow it is a non-issue for western riders, they put huge and tremendously wide-twisted saddles on and away they go.
Hum, good point Meupatdoes, but I wonder if it has something to do with the stirrup placement.
I like a narrow twist, if I ride in a wide twist dressage saddle it leaves me VERY sore. I am amazed that I can spend 10 minutes in such a saddle and feel it the next day, yet I can ride for three hours in a narrower twist dressage saddle with no issues.
BUT, I can also ride in big ol’ wide western saddle, and never get the weird soreness a wide twist dressage saddle will leave me with.
^ For me, a narrow twist (or not) makes a HUGE difference in how easily I fit into the saddle (or not). Not so much an issue for close contact, though I’m definitely more comfortable narrow there, as well… but literally the difference between being able to sit a big trot and canter (or not) in a dressage saddle. 
For folks with very short thighs, especially, it can matter.
[QUOTE=meupatdoes;7416724]
Personally, I don’t understand the obsession in the English disciplines with a narrow twist. Somehow it is a non-issue for western riders, they put huge and tremendously wide-twisted saddles on and away they go.[/QUOTE]
You sit differently in a western saddle than you do in an English one.
I had a narrow twist on my custom Western saddle- I have short legs. They can build that up with a piece calked a "strainer’, probably something similar for English saddles. Might be more limited then what they can do with a Western saddle tho.
Had a Childeric and a Butet that fit my beer barreled TB well and had a relatively narrow twist.
I am 5’2 and these narrow twists are the first time I can “get my leg on my horse”…because I ride 16.2-17.1 warmbloods… A Narrow twist is GREAT for me but I have to keep my horses happy too.
[QUOTE=florida foxhunter;7417609]
I am 5’2 and these narrow twists are the first time I can “get my leg on my horse”…because I ride 16.2-17.1 warmbloods… A Narrow twist is GREAT for me but I have to keep my horses happy too.[/QUOTE]
The older saddles usually ave a narrower test than newer ones, so it surprises me your old Crsby felt so wide. The French saddles definitely seem to come with a wider twist, but doesn’t always man the gullet is wider
I need a narrow twist, especially in dressage, and my horses are wide. It is a challenge. County has worked well for me, as has Albion. A good independent fitter should be able to point you towards combos that will work.
I absolutely cannot put my leg on a horse correctly with a wide twist. My pelvis is narrow, as are many women’s, vs. men’s, and my entire leg position changes with the twist. As for he gullet, I do not know if the gullet is narrower with a narrow twist and that’s a good question.
The twist of the saddle is comprised of the saddle rails, which are (or should be!) at the same angle as the tree points. Ergo, the narrower the tree, the more upright the rails, and the narrower the twist. Hoop trees, which are designed to fit a broad back, not only have flatter rails, but the extra breadth across the top of the pommel arch makes the rails further apart, which makes the twist even wider.
More on twist width at http://saddlefitter.blogspot.com/2012/01/lets-twist-again.html and http://saddlefitter.blogspot.com/2009/03/twist-and-shout.html.
There have been instances where the saddler has been able to adjust the twist in a minor way by building the foam a little or shaving the tree a bit on some of our orders but not enough to make a gigantic difference in twist.
IMO, yeah:
-
You can create a narrow twist on a wide horse…but expect to be riding in a saddle versions of platform shoes. The only way to resolve the width at the top of the horse’s back where the panels are and some kind of narrower beam a rider wants to sit on is to put some foam in between. I don’t see why this needs to feel particularly bad, however.
-
A body’s tolerance for a wide twist or not will depend on how much the rider can open her hips. Of course having a wider pelvis starts you out ahead of the game. And if you want to sit with your feet out in front of you (as is more acceptable in Western World), the requirement that you open your hips goes away some.
So the CC people have it hardest because our kind of riding traditionally doesn’t teach riders to open their hips and to build the kind of fitness and flexibility that lets them do that. Dressagists do better.
I’m usually Short On Wide, so I thank my lucky stars for some early and influential Yelling At by a Dressagist.
I am going to offer a slightly different opinion, and one that is likely not to go over well… and this is all my opinion as a more or less educated amatuer…
the French build saddles for the rider, not the horse. Other than the fact that the French saddles today are gorgeous and the leather is so nice I want to pet it, there isn’t anything I read, or observe about the make of the french saddles that i like unfortunately.
Leaving the delima, where to go? I loved my old Crosbys and Stubbens but in todays world they aren’t sexy at all. Many of the UK saddles just cozy right up to a horses back and say hello, how can I make your life better, and they come in all kinds of customizations for everything for skid row shark finned TB’s to wide load gypsy ponies… but they look like someone took my old Stubben and frankensteined it… mostly.
The few that are good looking you can’t find for sale used anyway, I haven’t seen anything from the Germans or Stubben lately that have both the esthetic appeal and all the highlights for the horse… Pessoas are so hit and miss, I don’t know if they are bargin basement or middle of the road quality so I just avoid them altogether out of self-preservation.
I have hopes for the Italians… but the Prestige is man made tree too, so <ugh>. Like my Amerigo so far, narrow twist feel with wool flocking, with wood spring tree, with wiiide gullet room and ponies seem to like but the leather isn’t as sexy and could they make them without those darn thigh blocks?!
Who does that leave? I know there are a lot of lesser known brands out there, but saddles are big scarey purchases and if you can’t find oen to try on your horse and if you can’t afford to buy new so you get rep out to fit (not that that always works out!) I need a sexy high end saddle at used saddle prices for a flat backed wide warmblood and long legged rider right now (so nix the Italian saddle… to curvy!). A5 Tad is too shallow for rider and newer deeper one is impossible to find in a long forward flap under 2500… ARRRRGGGHHHH!
ok, guess that turned into a personal rant.
OP - My Amerigo feels like a narrow twist but is kind to horses back from my reserach… if your horse can take a curvy saddle tree. Short answer I should have started with. I have also been perfectly happy in wider twist UK saddles but I am long legged, so may be different.
Yes you can have a narrow twist and a wide tree or a wide gullet. As far as saying french saddles are for the rider not the horse. I will say Bruno Delgrange are a TRUE FRENCH saddle that are know for the comfort of the horse and rider.
With out seeing pictures it hard to offer a good opinion.
I have a wide as a tank mare, and I personally prefer a narrower twist.
For this particular horse, it’s like putting a teepee on a beer keg. She is wide enough that in order to be comfortable, I have to have a wide twist, for exactly the reasons that Kitt mentioned.
However, I am super open at the hips, as MVP mentioned, so physically I can totally ride in a wide twist, I just don’t like to. I am also tall and all leg, so no issues there. I like the horse enough that I want her to be comfortable, and she is fancy enough that I don’t want to trade her in on a horse that would fit my saddle preferences.
For what it’s worth, I ride her in a County Stabilizer, stupid-wide width, and other people aren’t horribly offended by my saddle, either.
LTLFLDF - I had always loved the look and leather of the DelGrange and thought that it looked like they hugged the back and FIT the horse - I can’t explain it, I just thought they attracted me, but I have been told several times by many people that ‘all’ french saddles… yada yada yada.
Are some of the other french saddles approaching it from a different angle? I would be very happy to point my two remaining riders currently looking for a saddle to a Butet or Del Grange as they would meat the esthtic properties, if I could get better info on the guts of them… just saying! I just went to the Del Grange website and could find nothing on the guts at all.
Help!
