Does anyone ever just put shoes on just the hinds? Update- pics included

[Equkelly]

This might be a stupid question, but I’ve just never heard of anyone doing this except maybe reining. I have a 5 year old warmblood mare that my vet and I both highly suspect is PSSM2. She’s too young to biopsy but I’m following the management/ feeding guidelines as if she were to have PSSM2/MFM.

She drags her back feet and squares off her toe almost to the white line so I definitely want her to have shoes back there but she also overreaches and will not keep front shoes on. I’ve tried different farriers, she wears the thick, heavy duty bell boots that touch the ground and my farrier does a rocker, and grinds the back off but it doesn’t matter. I cannot figure out how to get this horse to keep the front shoes on her feet. She loses them both in the pasture and when I’m riding her. She pulls both fronts off equally but she’ll continue to get them off through her whole cycle. I just got them put on for the summer and she already got one off 3 days later. I’ve never had a horse that’s this bad.

So do I just give up on fronts all together and leave her backs on? Do people do that? She actually does have really nice front feet and main reason I want shoes on her at all is because of her squaring her backs so badly. Ideally I’d like fronts on her for trail riding but it’s not safe for either of us if she’s pulling shoes while I’m riding her so I feel like it’s a lost cause anyway. Is there a better solution?

[SuzieQNutter]

If you have a legitimate need to do so, it doesn’t matter what other people do.

There should be no grinding the ends of the shoe off. They should be cut so they do not come past the hoof. She should not be able to pull a shoe off in 3 days.

[beowulf]

The more I read of this, the more I suspect the trim is the issue here. Any time I read “horse can’t keep shoes on” it makes me think of all the trim/angles I’ve seen where the toe is left way too long and the horse is interfering because of major imbalance across the hoof capsule.

Got pictures of the feet?

To answer your question, yes, it can be done - usually in the case of catastrophic incident to the hoof wall or some other injury needing support. Never heard of it because someone couldn’t keep shoes on.

What makes you suspect PSSM?

[Equkelly]

@beowulf

The more I read of this, the more I suspect the trim is the issue here. Any time I read “horse can’t keep shoes on” it makes me think of all the trim/angles I’ve seen where the toe is left way too long and the horse is interfering because of major imbalance across the hoof capsule.

Got pictures of the feet?

Not on hand, but I’ll get some this evening!

@beowulf

What makes you suspect PSSM?

She gets pretty stiff in her hind end and has always struggled with transitions/ impulsion. There’s also the toe dragging but my vet is pretty convinced it’s not neurological and she’s also kind of always done it. She also is super low energy, she is probably the quietest youngster I’ve ever met but that could just be her. We weren’t sure if this was just a young horse thing or if there was more going on but then she started having mild tying up episodes despite not being exercised that hard and also being on very low NSC diet. I recently did an exercise test where my vet had me pull blood, exercise her and then pulled blood again to compare CPK levels and they were both elevated.

So that’s kind of where we’re at. My vet reached out to Dr.Valberg and she said if we biopsy PSSM may or may not show up in a 5YO so they recommend that they’re at least 7, but she sent us the current recommendations so we’re trying all that now. There’s obviously a possibility it’s something else going on but my gut tells me it’s a muscle issue, although it could be confirmation bias so who knows!

I’m very much still investigating and open to other theories if you have them though!

[Jealoushe]

Sounds like you need a new farrier. Shoes shouldn’t be flying off like that. Can you use hoof boots until they grow out stronger?

[PNWjumper]

I have never shod behind-only, but I have done all sorts of things that aren’t conventional to address a particular issue, so wouldn’t worry too much about whether others do it or not in a situation like this where it sounds like you have a well thought out reason for the hinds.

I did have a youngster who absolutely could not keep his fronts on. He pulled a front shoe while on turnout once or twice a week, and it was absolutely not a farrier issue. That sent me down the path to find something to help. Bell boots do absolutely nothing for a horse that pulls shoes. They are not meant to. They are meant to protect the heel from injury, and no pair of well-fitted bell boots protects the back of the shoe. With my guy I ended up using Shoe Secures (www.shoesecure.com), which I have posted about many times. The only problem for me was that they were a pain to take on and off (horse lived in them, but I took them off when I rode). My other determined shoe-puller had a habit of kicking off his RF shoe in the Grand Prixes when it was a little slippery/wet and we were using studs. So for riding, I found different bell boots that did the trick: https://www.equusport.com/product/quarter-bell-boots/

[DIR]

I did this for a short period of time as we adjusted angles and made diet and exercise changes for PSSM2. It allowed us to get over a hump and the horse went back to barefoot all around, as he went from foot sore to comfortable he was clearly happier. Can’t say he would have minded front shoes but this was a horse who was great at loosing front shoes so it worked for us.

[Equkelly]

@Jealoushe

Sounds like you need a new farrier. Shoes shouldn’t be flying off like that. Can you use hoof boots until they grow out stronger?

It might be, but I’ve tried a few farriers and it’s the same thing. My vet also highly recommends him and he does her horses and I 100% trust her judgment. I guess I’m just too chicken to try someone else and then burn my current farrier and be SOL.

He is working with me and the vet and trying out new things so he’s not indifferent to the issue. Plus he’s got to be getting sick of me calling him this much.

[Equkelly]

@PNWjumper

I have never shod behind-only, but I have done all sorts of things that aren’t conventional to address a particular issue, so wouldn’t worry too much about whether others do it or not in a situation like this where it sounds like you have a well thought out reason for the hinds.

Yea I’m not worried about trying something weird, I’m more just wondering if I’m missing something for why people don’t do this.

[hybriseris]

I am far from a farrier, but a woman where I board was using a highly respected farrier who DID do great work, and just wasn’t right for her horse. He threw front shoes some times within days, lived in bell boots.

He had to cancel on her one day, and my farrier was out and shod her horse. Front shoes, no problem for two cycles now. It did end up being a trim issue.

[Equkelly]

@hybriseris

I am far from a farrier, but a woman where I board was using a highly respected farrier who DID do great work, and just wasn’t right for her horse. He threw front shoes some times within days, lived in bell boots.

He had to cancel on her one day, and my farrier was out and shod her horse. Front shoes, no problem for two cycles now. It did end up being a trim issue.

Ugh yea… this is what I’m afraid of.

[Montanas_Girl]

My old hunter went in hind shoes only for years. I think it’s done with some regularity on hunter ponies (or so I’ve been told, anyway) probably for the same reasons we ended up doing it with my gelding - he had some minor hock/suspensory issues and was more confident/comfortable at the base of the fences with hind shoes on, but he had excellent hooves and was a hack-winning mover, and we didn’t want to alter either of those things by putting shoes on his fronts.

[findthedistance]

I have an eventer friend whose horse wore only hinds for a full season, so she could stud behind. Worked fine. I also know reiners will sometimes put just sliding plates on the young horses, if they don’t need front shoes yet. Try it and see what happens.

[EmilyM]

Your reasoning is logical and worth trying.
I’m in the camp that a lot of lost shoes are a red flag, but it sounds like you have a team trying to row in the same direction so worth continued experimentation imho.

[Peggy]

I did once. Horse had broken the extensor process off P3 on a front foot at some point before I got him and the resulting remodeling of that foot was making the heels constrict. Farrier suggested pulling the front shoes over the winter but wanted the hinds left on bc of some other issue.

I used easy boots on the trail, but nothing on the fronts when I rode, and jumped. .

[endlessclimb]

Both my Old Man horse and my new young one have been in just hinds for periods of time.

The Old Man horse because his hinds simply will not grow a heel - no farrier, even TOP TOP farriers that I hauled many hours to for years, have been able to get heel on this horse. His fronts are fine. While he was whittling his way down to retirement, he got his fronts pulled but not his hinds as he would get very sore when in work. Now that he’s all but retired, he doesn’t need them. He was in just hinds for years though, without issue.

The young one was unevenly wearing the outsides of her feet, which made her slightly-sticky stifles exponentially worse. Could not get significant growth on the hind. Her fronts were fine. Again, on went the hinds. It worked great for growing a hoof so we could fix the imbalanced wearing, but she is already downhill from growing, and having just the hinds really made it feel like I was riding a crashing airplane. I did two cycles with just the hinds, then couldn’t take the downhill feeling anymore and put the fronts on to match. The chiro had come out when she was shod behind and was pretty confused, but was understanding given the circumstances.

Shoe as needed. Don’t worry about what is conventional.

[IPEsq]

You know this horse isn’t moving properly and is probably very on the forehand given the toe dragging behind and other suspected issues. That itself could be a big part of the pulling front shoes. Even with a rocker, if she’s on the forehand she just might not be getting those front feet out of the way.

I think hind shoes only are reasonable while you go down the physical therapy route. Try to get her fitter and moving better and on the new program and then see if you can keep fronts on later.

I’ve seen a farrier do something similar for an OTTB who had hind end funkiness. Suspected SI issue or even EPM. Had been shod up front but not behind, and he pulled fronts a lot tearing up his feet. He was so weak behind they did hind shoes and pulled fronts to let the hoof wall recover. The hind shoes gave him the grip he needed behind, and he did start to get stronger and not so awkward looking. Later put fronts back on and he did fine.

[JB]

I look forward to both hoof pics, and a conformation-type picture on firm level ground

I see you’re working to keep NSC low, but are you working for higher protein and levels of amino acids? Whey isolate protein is working very well for a lot of Type 2 horses. But getting overall protein up, with quality AAs, is key. For harder keepers that’s easier as you can add alfalfa. Easier keepers, it’s down to ration balancers, maybe a couple pounds alfalfa pellets, some whey protein, and consistent work

[beowulf]

It sounds like you have a solid team and plan in place to help this mare. Looking forward to the pictures, and best of luck – if it works, report back for those who will probably find this thread because they have a similar issue/question.

Not for nothing (and not at all discrediting your vet, they know your horse better than me), but I will throw it out there that I have seen PSSM-type symptoms be a red herring for a horse struggling with some seriously bad NPA both up front and behind. I’ve seen it in two horses now that clinically came back with no positive for any variant, so it is something that is always in the back of my mind now when someone mentions PSSM. There is a lot of overlap in PSSM symptoms and NPA/chronic suspensory soreness symptoms – including muscle tremors from chronic pain/tension. Hopefully that is not at all the case with your mare and you get to the bottom of this ASAP!

[JB]

@beowulf

I will throw it out there that I have seen PSSM-type symptoms be a red herring for a horse struggling with some seriously bad NPA both up front and behind.

Yesssssss, good point. It’s just so, so common that everything about the feet seem fine, but pictures prove otherwise

I’d rather it BE the feet! You can fix those (99.99% of the time). PSSM is forever.