Does anyone here ride a mule in dressage or jumping?

[Libby2563]

I’ve been casually shopping for a second riding horse, either a resale project or my next young eventer to bring up, but I haven’t seen much that excites me. Until I saw this mule. He is super cute and athletic and a great jumper of course. He has a surprisingly long-strided, elastic trot as well (more huntery than dressagey but nicer than a lot of the sales horses I’ve been seeing, and he actually swings and tracks up better than my current TB).

I’ve pretty much talked myself out of it for various reasons. But it made me wonder how a “sport mule” would be different to ride/train than a horse. I know that they are a bit different temperamentally and can’t be bullied into doing anything they don’t want to do (which obviously isn’t a great way to train horses either anyway). I have donkeys so I can imagine that aspect of it.

What I’m wondering about more is how it feels. Can anyone shed light on how an English-trained mule feels to ride? With their different build, do you get a different feel in the connection and under your seat? Are they generally less supple-feeling than horses?

[NoSuchPerson]

I have owned 4 mules. I have one now. 3 of them were ridden both english and western.

There is a lot of variation in mules, so it’s really hard to make blanket generalizations. For example, people say that one advantage of mules is that they usually less spooky than horses. In 3 of the 4 I’ve owned, I’d disagree. One would bolt and run at the slightest scary provocation unless she was with a group.

One thing that I have found true with all of them is that they tend to be a smoother ride than horses. A friend described riding my current mule as being like sitting on a big comfy couch. Most of mine are actually harder to post on because you don’t get as much push out of the saddle as you do with a horse.

As far as training goes, when I got my first mule, an old mule guy told me that you have to train a mule the way you ought to train a horse. I have found that to be true. The guy who started one of mine under saddle for me was primarily a horse guy. He is the best horse trainer I’ve ever worked with - tremendous feel and timing. He doesn’t have a set program, lets the horse direct the pace and specific path by which they get to the end goal. He did think mules were different from horses, but they weren’t so much different that he couldn’t apply the same training philosophy he used with horses.

It’s also important to establish a solid level of trust with your mule. With all of my mules, I have felt like establishing a good relationship was more important and necessary than with most horses. The above mentioned trainer commented more than once on the way that my mule very clearly identified me as his person.

As far as suppleness goes, I’d say mules are generally more supple than a horse of equivalent training. They are very bendy.

Whether or not you like mules is a really individual thing. Mules are most definitely not for everyone. A sense of humor helps, as does not being a control freak.

[CHT]

There are a few nice mules in my area. Apparently saddle fit can be an issue, and not all shows will allow mules to compete (because they aren’t horses and can cause extra excitement).

[bathsheba8542]

(do it do it do it do it!!!)

[Libby2563]

@NoSuchPerson that is super helpful, thanks! It’s interesting to hear that mules tend to be more supple. I spent a long time this weekend watching videos of mules trying to talk myself into or out of this one, and I noticed that the dressage mules looked stiff in the neck and jaw pretty consistently. Perhaps it’s just how their neck is shaped and I don’t have a good read on them.

@bathsheba8542 That is NOT helpful! :winkgrin: I’ve very nearly succeeded in talking myself out of this insanity.

[Redlei44]

For your stated goals of either resale or next competitive eventing mount, a mule is probably not a great bet. They just aren’t popular/common enough in most markets, and as an above poster mentioned, they aren’t permitted at many horse shows. Definitely check your area before committing. As you note, their gaits and conformation vary greatly and are not always suited to english sport performance.

That said, I have a couple of friends who have long been involved in show and pleasure mule training. The show animals mainly compete at mule-specific events (they travel regionally, classes for dressage, driving, saddleseat, you name it) and their pleasure animals are solid citizens on the trail and for their lesson program. It’s a labor and hobby of love. Great animals!

[NoSuchPerson]

@Libby2563

@NoSuchPerson that is super helpful, thanks! It’s interesting to hear that mules tend to be more supple. I spent a long time this weekend watching videos of mules trying to talk myself into or out of this one, and I noticed that the dressage mules looked stiff in the neck and jaw pretty consistently. Perhaps it’s just how their neck is shaped and I don’t have a good read on them.

One: We’re kind of talking about two different things - the capacity to achieve a certain level of suppleness is one thing, the quality and focus of training to actually achieve it is another. You are not going to find nearly as many mules that have received the requisite level and quality of dressage training as you will horses.

Two: Mules are built differently from horses. Compared to my horses, my mules all tended to have shorter, thicker necks and bigger heads. I think this tends to make them look stiffer in the neck, whether or not they actually are.

If you want to see videos of a mule that has been quite successful in dressage, google Heart B Porter Creek . Also, Laura Hermanson has, I believe, taken two mules to the US Dressage finals, Heart B Dyna (2014) and Behold the Desert (2018). You should be able to find videos by googling.

[Highflyer]

It’s not currently legal to compete one at recognized events, I don’t think, so keep that in mind if that’s a goal for you.

[Libby2563]

Yeah I know they’re not allowed to event recognized and would be an idiotic resale project. Those are two of the reasons I basically talked myself out. I would regard the mule as a keeper and do lower-level dressage, unrecognized events (they’re welcome at some near me), working equitation, competitive trail, and other stuff instead. But I still think I should probably buy a horse or pony. If he were closer I’d love to try him but buying my first mule sight unseen seems too risky.

Laura’s mules are very impressive! I stabled on the other side of the wall from Dyna at Finals in 2014 and made a point to watch her go.

I’ve read that they learn better with lots of positive reinforcement. How does that affect your training under saddle when so much is based on release of pressure? I don’t treat while riding and think that would be kind of distracting. Is verbal praise and a scratch on the neck typically enough? Clearly they don’t need it all the time because at least some of them can get through dressage tests etc. Is it more necessary for new and difficult/scary things? Or is that notion not accurate at all?

[kande04]

My Halflinger mule (my Halflinger mare and Mammoth jack) is 25 now, and the biggest obstacle I’ve had to overcome with him is his fear isssues. Couple that with the donkey genes that make him instinctively brace against pressure, his downhill conformation and ability to resist pressure, and he’s been a 25 year learning experience.

He was started in harness as a 3 year old, which, with 20/20 hindsight was a mistake because it was way too much for him mentally (he was scared silly the whole time).

Then, when he was about four I started clicker training him because I wasn’t getting far with pressure and release (due to my unreasonable expectations from my previous experiences with horses and his seemingly off the charts fear issues).

Clicker training with him was the proverbial “voyage of discovery”, and I’m still working on that 20 years later. I did a lot of dressage with him because that’s what I do, and am happy to say that he’s now calm, straight, and has a good relationship with the bit (doesn’t wear a noseband and doesn’t gape his mouth or chomp the bit).

I free shaped a lot of what he knows because I wanted to learn how to do that, and he needed that kind of time, but I do feel that trying to go up the levels on him would been a mistake simply because he’s not built for it. So I stuck with trail riding and perfecting lower level work instead of pushing for more advanced work.

I took him to one small local schooling show, training level, and he didn’t panic and stayed in the arena by himself, so it went pretty well. He can blow through a snaffle like it isn’t even there, so he did okay, and if I didn’t already have a horse who is much better built for dressage I probably would have done more of it with my mule.

I think the reason mules may have a rep for being less supple is because if they have a reason to resist they’re able to really, really resist, even though they’re perfectly capable of flexing and bending when they don’t have any serious reservations about doing it.

You can see both in this clip. When he has to look he has to look, and no amount of pressure is going to make him look away when he really needs to look. But when he’s feeling safe enough he’s willing and able to go along with whatever I want to do.

Ten years ago, back when I was still in my 60’s and still interested in going to shows.

https://youtu.be/3_QLuZGIq9M

[Libby2563]

@kande04 Your mule is soooo cute!!! Thanks for sharing! It’s helpful and interesting to hear about your experiences with him.

I have been on the receiving end of the neck brace with my donkeys. The newer one, who was born feral and is still very suspicious of everything, is only a small standard and still managed to drag me quite a long distance once because he locked his neck and I just could not get him to turn or stop. Thankfully the donkey I’ve had longer is incredibly sweet and willing.

[Tarlo_Farm]

When we used to do a schooling show in my area, there was guy from Grand Rapids who rode a sweet little Jenny. She had an AMAZING extended trot on the diagonal. A laugh-out-loud in amazement trot!

[kande04]

@Libby2563

@kande04 Your mule is soooo cute!!! Thanks for sharing! It’s helpful and interesting to hear about your experiences with him.

I have been on the receiving end of the neck brace with my donkeys. The newer one, who was born feral and is still very suspicious of everything, is only a small standard and still managed to drag me quite a long distance once because he locked his neck and I just could not get him to turn or stop. Thankfully the donkey I’ve had longer is incredibly sweet and willing.

Longears are incredibly strong laterally, and will stiffen and spin away and then once they have the advantage will just rip the lead rope from your hand, or drag you (which then scares them so they take off even faster).

If I knew then what I know now I’d have nipped that particular behavior in the bud when my mules were young.

I think it’s Terry Nichols who has a good method for doing that (it involves hobbles), but given all the mules who end up on slaughter trucks because they learned that that they can just take off whenever they get scared, I’m all for taking the risk and teaching them that bolting is not one of their options.

My life, and probably my mules’ too, would have been so much easier if they had just learned that right from the beginning.

[Libby2563]

@kande04

Longears are incredibly strong laterally, and will stiffen and spin away and then once they have the advantage will just rip the lead rope from your hand, or drag you (which then scares them so they take off even faster).

If I knew then what I know now I’d have nipped that particular behavior in the bud when my mules were young.

I think it’s Terry Nichols who has a good method for doing that (it involves hobbles), but given all the mules who end up on slaughter trucks because they learned that that they can just take off whenever they get scared, I’m all for taking the risk and teaching them that bolting is not one of their options.

My life, and probably my mules’ too, would have been so much easier if they had just learned that right from the beginning.

Interesting, I’ll google that method, thanks! Yeah with my feral donkey the lead rope was long enough and he is short enough to let him get out in front of me so I ended up running along behind him, which scared him even more. After about 50 feet of this I realized he wasn’t stopping anytime soon and that as much as I didn’t want to let go I also didn’t want to get kicked in the face, so I let go and he calmed down once he got back to the barn/his buddies. I thought he wouldn’t let me near him for a while after I “chased” him but thankfully he is very food-motivated.

[streamline]

Gosh I really wanted a mule. There was a lovely dunskin one in the loose horse sale once. Had to be 16 hh. Looked mostly horsey minus the years. His card said female riders only. My SO said nooo way.

There’s someone local who rides his mule in the feedlots. I know some places have shows just for mules .

[walktrot]

Love Willie!!!