Does anyone in your hunt not pay to hunt?

[Romany]

This is a spin-off from the discussion about guest etiquette…I took a look at Painted Wings’s link to her hunt’s rules & regs, which made for useful reading.

One item, though, caught my eye:

"EQUINE PROFESSIONAL

An Equine Professional is someone that has or operates from a place of business from which they regularly invoice clients or one who earns the vast majority of their earned income from the boarding, training, transporting, buying or selling, of horses and from the instruction of student riders.
Such equine professionals who wear the appropriate indicator may ride in the hunt at no charge."

Apart from landowners, who usually aren’t expected to pay for a day or more’s hunting, is there anyone else that usually doesn’t have to pay? I was quite surprised to read that “equine professionals” are allowed to hunt for free in that particular hunt…

Just curious!

(the website is Bridlespur Hunt’s: http://www.bridlespur.com/hunting.htm)

[Mudroom]

generally no for our hunt, Camargo, but we do allow one hunt with no cap to people who pay to participate in hunt special events such as paces, combined test etc. We do have honorary memberships for former MFH’s etc, but that is more like the landowner situation that you mentioned,

In our hunt professionals get a reduced rate, but to qualify they have to do more than just be an equine professional, they have to offer services that benefit the hunt, such as livery horses etc.

[Elghund2]

As far as I know everyone pays to hunt in our hunt. The huntsman is paid, so I don’t think he pays. We don’t have any professional whips.

I don’t know why a hunt would exclude professionals from paying their dues.

[Jaegermonster]

IME as Field Secretary for a number of years, MFH’s who are guests at another hunt do not pay the capping fee as a courtesy. I have had several who paid it anyway, again as a courtesy but that is up to them.
We have several landowners who are also active riding members, and I don’t know if they actually pay or not. I would never dare inquire.
Anyone else who does or does not pay and what they pay for is between them and the masters and no one else’s business, really.

[JSwan]

Grooms are permitted but will be capped accordingly.

That’s the rule.

Another exception is for members who earn more than 25% of their income from farming. Real farming - not just keeping your own horses. We’re very supportive of agriculture!!

Any other special folks; special guests, EX-MFH - any other courtesy extended by the Master - I’m sure some private arrangement is made.

Guess every hunt is its own little world, isn’t it.

[Benson]

@J Swan;3070335

Another exception is for members who earn more than 25% of their income from farming. Real farming - not just keeping your own horses. We’re very supportive of agriculture!!

Get OUT! That’s awesome. What a concept:)

What type of farmer’s do you have? Grain? Livestock? Hay? Vegetables?

[JSwan]

I’m glad you think so.

Too great a variety to list them all - but mostly beef and dairy and for row crops, corn, beans or hay.

I’m not sure it’s a new concept as many hunts are, or were, farmers hunts.

Perhaps it’s one of those misconceptions about foxhunting? That it’s a snooty sport only for the well-heeled? I’m not an authority on hunting, but many of them started out as farmers packs/hunts. I don’t know enough about hunt clubs across the US to know how many of them still consider themselves farmer’s hunts.

[Evalee_Hunter]

[QUOTE=J Swan;3070335]
. . . . Another exception is for members who earn more than 25% of their income from farming. Real farming - not just keeping your own horses. We’re very supportive of agriculture!! . . . [/QUOTE]

Now I am going to make all of you groan. I suppose, J Swan, you will have to tell me I am being too picky & too nosey, but here goes.

First off, how is the 25% calculated (or is it on the honor system)? For example, suppose someone earns $100,000 from their regular job and also has gross income of $100,000 from farming, but the expenses related to farming amount to $150,000 so there is a net loss from farming. Is that person earning 50% of their income from farming ($100,000 job & $100,000 farm income) or none of their income from farming (figured because there is a $50,000 overall loss)?

Second question, I don’t know about VA but in PA & MD, boarding horses is classed as agriculture. (Oddly enough, teaching lessons is NOT agriculture.) Thus, would an active boarding stable qualify as “farming”?

[Painted_Wings]

Our hunt which is the initial one reference. There is one person who regularly hunts (as a whip) for free. He usually only hunts the weekday hunts when we are short of whips anyway as he has to run his business and lessons on the weekends. He runs a H/J barn and regularly recruits people to foxhunt. His wife also serves as Organizer and Secretary at a Clup sponsored Schooling show which brings in more money for the club than if they paid dues. Other than that we have the occaisional professional that hunts but it is rare. I hunted as a landowner for several years until the hunt moved away from our farm. Now I have to pay dues like the rest of them.

Our former huntsman has hunted twice this year as a professional on one of my horses.

So I would say that it is a nice gesture in hopes that those professionals will bring paying members. I have certainly not seen it abused.

[JSwan]

It’s a good question. And one I don’t have an answer to. I’ll dodge it and say I’m sure it’s at the discretion of the Masters and/or Board of Directors. . I think the idea is to encourage farmers and landowners to be active supportive members of the community and hunt - and not so much on examining their farm return every year. The net income could vary wildly anyway.

But it’s pure speculation. I might know more if I paid attention instead of cheering on my favorite hounds .

@Evalee Hunter;3070838

Now I am going to make all of you groan. I suppose, J Swan, you will have to tell me I am being too picky & too nosey, but here goes.

First off, how is the 25% calculated (or is it on the honor system)? For example, suppose someone earns $100,000 from their regular job and also has gross income of $100,000 from farming, but the expenses related to farming amount to $150,000 so there is a net loss from farming. Is that person earning 50% of their income from farming ($100,000 job & $100,000 farm income) or none of their income from farming (figured because there is a $50,000 overall loss)?

Second question, I don’t know about VA but in PA & MD, boarding horses is classed as agriculture. (Oddly enough, teaching lessons is NOT agriculture.) Thus, would an active boarding stable qualify as “farming”?

[armandh]

as the person who had to write the definitions

I am the person who had to write the definitions to prevent abuse [we also allow grooms].
Without clear definitions this could get out of hand and as the club treasurer I had a vested interest that it did not.
So far we have not had to make further adjustments to the one time vague policies.
we have a reduced fee program for youths [with non horsey parents]
owners of substantial land, over which we hunt, get the freebie too

to quote one of our MFH and current corporate president “You are a wonderfully generous group of members” and while the club founders have long since left the sport and this life, they have left the current club organization with a dedication to the sport, a generous attitude to new members [such as our circumstances permit] and a desire to see fox hunting continue in our area. Our club has had to be self supporting since well B4 my time, in our third http://www.pbase.com/lesliegra/hunt_trail_ride_at_new_property
location, we try to grow the sport where we can.

http://members.arstechnica.com/x/armandh2/57%20SI%20cover.JPG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdfMuU8SxcI

[Benson]

[QUOTE=J Swan;3070653]
I’m glad you think so.

Too great a variety to list them all - but mostly beef and dairy and for row crops, corn, beans or hay.

I’m not sure it’s a new concept as many hunts are, or were, farmers hunts.

Perhaps it’s one of those misconceptions about foxhunting? That it’s a snooty sport only for the well-heeled? I’m not an authority on hunting, but many of them started out as farmers packs/hunts. I don’t know enough about hunt clubs across the US to know how many of them still consider themselves farmer’s hunts.[/QUOTE]

hahaha, I hunt with a Farmer pack. On any given day there are 6-12 of us, including staff.

I’ve got foxes killing everything that moves (chickens, cats, etc), so it’s pretty easy to figure out how Hunting started. It’s also PERFECT for farmers b/c of the season. I’m a vegetable farmer, so in August, we’ve got all our crops in the ground for the fall and we’re slowing down on harvest. Perfect time to hop on the horse and go for a quick morning hack. Then, we hang out and drink wine by the fire all winter and I have all the time in the world to ride. Hunting is perfect. Hunt season is close to over and we’re just beginning to plant peas and spinach in the fields. Hunt horsey gets the majority of the summer off while we’re working. This is one of the main reasons I got into hunting, b/c of the season and ability to ride all winter.

[eqsiu]

You know, I never paid a capping fee before I joined. And I hunted about 25% of the time for that season. None of my guests have ever paid a cap either. Hm. I wonder why. Maybe the hunt figures that they’ll let guests hunt free in order to lure them in? I do know that once the huntsman found out my dad was an attorney he told me to hit him up for dues. Hm. I joined after that season, so perhaps if I had not I would have been told I had to?

I was also told that my dad need to buy me a hunting crop. I hate the thing. But first field riders are supposed to carry them because we are usually either short a whip or two or the whips are too far away to be of much help at checks (our territory is very hilly and wooded, so the whips are more like wings to keep the hounds in the territory). Though once my dog ate the thong I didn’t have to carry it anymore! :lol:

[Hunter_s_Rest]

I pay a regular landowners subscription to the pack in whose territory I live.
I often hire horses out for people to hunt with other hunts. Some hunts allow me to hunt as a groom-trainer gratis with the paying guest. Some do not. In that case, the guest pays for me. I believe most hunts (the ones that don’t allow trainers to hunt gratis - my hunt does, BTW) have a groom’s rate which is not too high.
I believe that a riding landowner, whose farm we happen to be meeting at, is invited to hunt with us that day gratis. This I saw it happen in SC with Whiskey Road. The farmer who owned the land where we met has these nifty hound trials horses (shakey tails, of course) and he and his son rode in their tidy jeans and ball caps and western tack. Kept up all day. It was charming and very appropriate.

[Beverley]

Waay back when I was secretary-treasurer, all landowners were welcome for free, any time. Few took us up on the offer, but many did enjoy either car following, or being sure to have guests on their porches to watch us go by. I perceive this has changed over time and I suppose it’s a sticky wicket- if everyone in the neighborhood who owns 5 acres hunts for free, you soon don’t have enough paying members. The flip side is, without the land, whatever the size of the parcels, you don’t have a hunt. Sounds like each hunt works it out in the best possible manner for all concerned.

Grooms typically paid a reduced rate, or more precisely, their employer paid it for them. Guests were limited to 3 caps per season- and prospective members had to cap three times before final consideration of their membership, but those cap fees were credited toward dues if they were accepted. We did have a limit on membership, for only one reason- landowner concerns about a zillion people galloping across their hay fields or through their calving cattle.

We also occasionally negotiated discounted or free memberships for essential services, like veterinary care.

[Snow_Princess]

Our Hunt did the same thing with one vet and we got a deal on all of the spays
for the non breeding bitches.

[Romany]

[QUOTE=Hunter’s Rest;3072087]
I pay a regular landowners subscription to the pack in whose territory I live.
I often hire horses out for people to hunt with other hunts. Some hunts allow me to hunt as a groom-trainer gratis with the paying guest. Some do not. In that case, the guest pays for me. I believe most hunts (the ones that don’t allow trainers to hunt gratis - my hunt does, BTW) have a groom’s rate which is not too high.
I believe that a riding landowner, whose farm we happen to be meeting at, is invited to hunt with us that day gratis. This I saw it happen in SC with Whiskey Road. The farmer who owned the land where we met has these nifty hound trials horses (shakey tails, of course) and he and his son rode in their tidy jeans and ball caps and western tack. Kept up all day. It was charming and very appropriate.[/QUOTE]

That’s an interesting approach to handling fees to keep everyone happy and the coffers full - makes a lot of sense.

If you don’t mind me asking, the “landowner’s subscription” - is that a reduced full sub, or…? (pm me if you’d rather - I’m genuinely interested).