Does anyone know how long orchard grass can persist?

[PonyRiderMom]

I’ve mentioned before that this place we bought used to be a farm, but it hasn’t been used for livestock in at least 15-20 years. The only maintenance that has occurred in the back areas is very occasional mowing.

There’s a lot of this clumping grass that I’ve tentatively identified as orchard grass, based on the leaves and the seed heads. I don’t think it’s quack grass. I probably won’t know for sure until I’ve been here for a full year and have seen it in all of its stages. The horses sure love it.

I’m just wondering about this, though, because certainly no one has seeded anything in those back pastures in a very long time. I read that orchard grass can persist for a few years, but this stuff has obviously been around for a long time. Does anyone know if it’s possible for orchard grass to persist for a decade or two?

FWIW before anyone suggests this, my extension agent is very unhelpful and has refused to identify plants to me on the basis that “they could be toxic.” She told me I should send them to a private lab.

I’d like to figure out what I’ve got growing out here, so I can figure out what I want to nurture and what I might want to try to replace. Whatever this stuff is, it seems like these clumps are really well rooted and are so far tolerating really heavy grazing.

[endlessclimb]

Got a picture?

[SusanO]

See if you can find any seedheads. OG seedheads are very distinctive and the leaves are usually a blue green color compared to fescue. It depends where you live as to how persistent OG is. I have a few clumps in my pasture but I am in Alabama where the summers are long, hot and dry and OG doesn’t last long in this environment. In your favor is the fact that this grass has not been grazed close in decades so it may be very established.

If you have pictures of seedheads I don’t see how the extension agent would not be able to identify the grass. But I can understand. The ones out here for Bubba County do not know the difference in a juniper and a cedar. So I don’t ask them any questions.

Send us a pic of the seedheads.

[PonyRiderMom]

OK here’s some pictures.

[SusanO]

The seed heads look like either immature OG or rye. But that next to last picture you posted is definitely OG leaves. See the blueish tint to the green and I am sure the leaves are softer than fescue. So I vote OG.

[NaturallyHappy]

@SusanO

So I vote OG.

Me, too!

[ThreeWishes]

Sure looks like orchard grass! Which in Florida I pay $50.00 a heavy 3 string bale for.

[endlessclimb]

Me three. The leaves give it away for sure. What a nice surprise!

[luvmyhackney]

That’s orchard. I just mowed 8 acres of it. I haven’t seeded in 3 years in the front pastures, just hand pulled weeds and spread compost and it looks fantastic. Mine turns brown after a couple of good frosts.

[2DogsFarm]

Since concensus here says OG, mine has been growing untouched for the 20yrs I’ve been here.
Roughly 10yrs ago a haymaking neighbor started cutting & baling it.
Never seeded, never fertilized or sprayed, every succeeding cutting got better. On my ~1+ac (it’s just an L-shaped area surrounding my pastures & barn/indoor) a good year gave them 100-150 small squares. This year was bad, 1st cutting went into large round bales, they got 7.
2nd cutting was 75 small squares.
They may get a very late 3rd cutting, but we just mostly ended a long period of drought, so yield won’t be good.

[PonyRiderMom]

OK that’s awesome. Although now I wish I hadn’t cut it down so hard a few days ago. I was trying to get everything evened out on my last mow of the year. But now I’ve read you can get winter kill if you do that to orchard grass. Well hopefully we won’t see our first frost for a few weeks, so it will have time to grow a little.

I will say the clumps are unsightly and make mowing annoying. They are like a million speed bumps. But I’m not trying to grow a lawn back there, and I don’t plan on mowing much. I’m trying to have something that the horses will eat but that will also be tough. Surely super old orchard grass is going to be pretty tough.

So for the record, in case anyone ever comes looking for this answer, this grass has been out there for at least 15 years, possibly more like 20, mostly being ignored and very rarely being mowed. This is in the wet part of the PNW, where people say you can’t keep grass unless you maintain it all the time. This grass is growing all over my property, does well in the shade, does well in the back pasture where it never gets watered, and does decent in the moister areas. So I guess I’d have to recommend it, unless you don’t like unsightly clumps. I think if you keep it mowed down regularly, that might not happen.

And I guess it turns out that orchard grass can persist a lot longer than what I had read.

[Amberley]

@PonyRiderMom

This is in the wet part of the PNW, where people say you can’t keep grass unless you maintain it all the time.

What people? Grass grows incredibly well in the wet part of the PNW, that’s basically the climate grass likes best.

[Cowboy_Girl]

You can literally watch it grow

[PonyRiderMom]

People say

• it’s too wet here, that the climate and soil are adapted for forest,

• the rain leaches nutrients needed by the grass,

• that there are no native grasses which shows that grasses aren’t meant to live here

[Amberley]

@PonyRiderMom

that there are no native grasses which shows that grasses aren’t meant to live here

Ummmm… there are plenty of native grasses in the PNW?

The dominant mature ecosystems may be temperature forest, sure but it wasn’t 100% forest cover. There are plenty of grasses, sedges, forbs etc native to the PNW.

[StormyDay]

@PonyRiderMom

People say

• it’s too wet here, that the climate and soil are adapted for forest,

• the rain leaches nutrients needed by the grass,

• that there are no native grasses which shows that grasses aren’t meant to live here

Well those people are dumb. the best grass in the USA grows in the PNW. The issue isn’t growing it, it’s that in order to not kill it by churning it up with hoofprints you need more acres per horse than standard. In Virginia I can have 10 horses on 8 acres. In Washington id need 25 to 30 for the same 8 horses to keep my grass alive.

[SusanO]

In rainy climates the soil tends to be acidic because of the rain. That pH can be adjusted by adding lime at the right times of the year so that grasses grow better than weeds. You can always do a cheap soil test to see what your soil needs to grow the grasses you want in your pasture. And as StormyDay notes - clump grasses like orchard grass and timothy are more susceptible to compaction and damage from hooves on wet soil. Unlike warm season grasses that grow by rhizome. And fescue. Nothing kills that stuff.

[Ghazzu]

I concur with the OG.
For futre reference, here’s a pretty useful guide to identifying pasture grasses.

[Ghazzu]

@PonyRiderMom

People say

People say you shouldn’t let a hot horse drink, too, but that doesn’t make it true.