Yes. I was looking mostly at the horse first viewing but you are right… Hes being pulled onto the forehand to get the overbent head carriage. I think this is a horse you’d need to trial ride to really know how he is.
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I watched the video again and it seemed to me that he was being ridden that way in anticipation of possible behavior issues Numerous place where he tries to bring his head up above the bit and seems to be looking for trouble. This would be consistent with above comments that he was an ass at the show under a “very very capable Junior” and the later comment about his “rolodex moves”.
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Agree, and I’m certainly no dressage expert. But to me, in general, it looked like a lot of defensive riding in an effort to create the best possible video.
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He looks to me to be asked to perform above what he’s trained to do. A lot of work going on for some simple working trot movements.
Honestly to me this looks more like bad fake dressage riding, seesawing at the mouth, overbent “round,” hauling corners on an inside rein. I see people riding like this fairly often. It looks different than someone riding a spooky horse pre-emptively. I don’t see this horse being looky at all.
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I think it’s a bit of both
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His breed is " German Warmblood -16 yo Swiss Warmblood" ? What does that mean?
I personally do not like the way he is being ridden. Nose too much to the chest. Riders inside hand way back on her thigh and low.
Did you all notice that after the lead changes, the video went to somewhere else?
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I finally got a chance to look at the sales video. I also looked up the rider and saw some videos of them ride. IMO this rider is extremely heavy handed, even in the other two clips I saw. I was wondering if maybe they were riding this horse this way for a reason, or if it was the fault of the rider. Could still be both.
I’d love to see this horse on loose rein. The horse is doing 4th level movements - would be PSG movements if we saw a canter pirouette. Also don’t recall seeing canter halfpass. If I were a betting woman, I’d say due to the heavy handedness, the rider can not get enough collection to do canter pirouettes. Rider did a 4 time tempi change and a 5. Rein back would also be interesting to see.
He is well bred but I would check the registry papers. Dam would have had to be approved SWB through the dam’s damsire, Monte Carlo, as I do not believe For Pleasure (sire) or Ulysse de Thurin (dam’s sire) are approved SWB.
It could be that the riding is bad and he can take a joke. He just may not be one you want to consistently hack. The price is very low for a 4th level horse. It’s a red flag but like I said upthread, it could be due to the owner’s circumstances with an active duty husband. For Pleasure offspring are also nice even if jumper bred. I think he has the capability to move much better than this assuming he is sound - but I’d for sure do a good PPE to rule out whether the current movement is due solely to riding and underlying unsoundness or if it’s just the riding. I would price a 2 year old at 20k so I’m more sus with everything considering.
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I agree with this and @2tempe. It doesn’t excuse the backward hands and the slouching against the movement, but I’ve ridden one or two nutcases in my day and nothing will teach you to hang on like a horse with a cold spook. So much harder to unlearn!
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Yes, that was… interesting. That’s usually not a part you leave out of a sales video. It leaves me wondering, “So what happened after the changes?” (There are so many choices and some are not good) 
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And I would ride the horse before paying for a PPE. Could be a softer rider gets on and he’s completely different, maybe in a good way, maybe not.
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Nah, if you go to the 2:50 mark, he does three changes across the diagonal.
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To me it looked like it was the way he was being ridden. Behind the vertical, and not reaching. I saw a horse whose mind wasn’t engaged, and the rider wasn’t asking him to be. The rider just didn’t get anything interesting or correct out of the horse, and kept him on the forehand. I don’t see much wrong with the horse an interested rider who can ask for better engagement in the basics couldn’t fix. My Humble Op.
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Honestly, I think with a better rider up, you’d see a far different horse.
Horse looks like he is in defense mode - he WANTS to be given his head to balance better, but the rider is not giving it at all. So he has no choice but to end up on the forehand, because she is not capable of collecting him for the work she’s trying to show. I never saw a half-halt, never saw her ask to balance him, just a lot of cement-fisted riding and some jerking on the reins. Also wonder how many times she inadvertently jabbed him with those spurs.
Take the 1:40 mark - is she trying to do a half-pass? What is that? The horse looks as confused as I am. Then about the 2:30 mark - he’s on the forehand because he’s so cranked over he has nowhere else to go. Then you finally see him give a little frustrated buck at the 2:55 mark - but I just see that as frustration that he isn’t being given clear aids, and she’s riding him like she’s driving a tractor.
If you like him, go try him. With a better rider, I think he’d be a totally different horse.
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He is actually Swedish.
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As I stated before-this horse was at my trainer’s for 2 years and was doing PSG with my trainer. If I remember correctly he was doing 4th level before they bought him. Owner was not capable of that level. Trainer had one of her other students do 4th level with him at the shows an he was an ass hence the low scores. Maybe the rider in the video not capable of PSG?
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