Does anyone mix their own supplements?

[grandprixer]

Hello all. Looking at potentially adding another supplement for Horse, mainly skin and hair based.

He has allergy issues with flies, is fungus prone, and loses his hair at the slightest chance (chestnuts :rolleyes:). I bought him fleece lined boots and fly mask for this summer, they fit perfectly, rubbed all his hair out. Skin is fine, no irritation, just bald. His fleece bell boots rubbed all his hair out. He lost all the hair on his neck from flies this summer. No winter coat, clips take forever to grow back in, etc.

He already is on platinum performance and outlast. I’m trying to stay under 1$/day for anything new, and preferably he needs to be able to show on it.

I’m thinking some combo of chia seeds, flax, BOSS seeds? Maybe coconut oil? If anyone mixes something like this for their own horses, can you share a recipe?

TIA!

[JB]

FWIW, I think PP is a very poor (and $$) supplement for what it is. There are definitely better products for less $ and/or that give you more nutrition for the money spent. On the subject of hair/skin issues, copper and zinc, and possibly also Vit E, selenium, and Vit A, are all critical. I’d bet a lot of $ that the current diet is high in iron and low in copper and zinc, at the very least, and if you’re feeding only hay, also low in Vit E.

A ration balancer instead of PP would be a huge step up. But if he really doesn’t even need those calories, then High Point Grass (Horsetech), California Trace (California Trace), U-Balance Foundation or Sporthorse Grass (Uckele), Arizona Copper Complete, as all much better v/m supplements.

If he’s on an all/mostly hay diet, then flax would be a good addition for the Omega 3, and cheaper than Chia.

[Simkie]

I mix up my own stuff in that I don’t pay extra $$$ for an “all in one” supplement. But the core diet and nutrition really have to be there first, starting with forage, then an appropriate grain, then supplements to fine tune.

Flax and chia both would be redundant. Black oil sunflower seeds are high in omega 6 and risk aflatoxin, that’s not a great idea. Coconut oil has no essential fatty acids, is expensive, and a pita to feed once it gets cold.

What’s the entire diet look like now, and what’s your goal?

(With regard to the bell boots, fleece often rubs like that. The fleece collects dirt particles and becomes abrasive. Better to go with pull ons for sensitive horses, as there’s nothing to collect dirt, and no seam to rub :yes:)

[grandprixer]

@JB

FWIW, I think PP is a very poor (and $$) supplement for what it is. There are definitely better products for less $ and/or that give you more nutrition for the money spent. On the subject of hair/skin issues, copper and zinc, and possibly also Vit E, selenium, and Vit A, are all critical. I’d bet a lot of $ that the current diet is high in iron and low in copper and zinc, at the very least, and if you’re feeding only hay, also low in Vit E.

A ration balancer instead of PP would be a huge step up. But if he really doesn’t even need those calories, then High Point Grass (Horsetech), California Trace (California Trace), U-Balance Foundation or Sporthorse Grass (Uckele), Arizona Copper Complete, as all much better v/m supplements.

If he’s on an all/mostly hay diet, then flax would be a good addition for the Omega 3, and cheaper than Chia.

He gets grain AM and PM, free choice bermuda 8-10/hrs day, and turnout on grass 14-16/hours a day. I forget what brand grain, but we brought in a nutritionist last year for the whole barn who tested the grass and hay and decided no extra supplements (selenium, zinc, etc) were needed except in special occasions, which he was deemed not.

[grandprixer]

@Simkie

I mix up my own stuff in that I don’t pay extra $$$ for an “all in one” supplement. But the core diet and nutrition really have to be there first, starting with forage, then an appropriate grain, then supplements to fine tune.

Flax and chia both would be redundant. Black oil sunflower seeds are high in omega 6 and risk aflatoxin, that’s not a great idea. Coconut oil has no essential fatty acids, is expensive, and a pita to feed once it gets cold.

What’s the entire diet look like now, and what’s your goal?

(With regard to the bell boots, fleece often rubs like that. The fleece collects dirt particles and becomes abrasive. Better to go with pull ons for sensitive horses, as there’s nothing to collect dirt, and no seam to rub :yes:)

Thanks. What cheapish things would you then mix into an ideal supplement?

Also, we tried pull on rubber bells first. Rubbed him bloody. tried velcro, same thing. Fleece rubs bad but hasn’t drawn blood yet.

[GraceLikeRain]

I’d test your hay and grass. Hay and grass are not static. It is not too expensive to test either. The brand, type, and weight of grain is also very helpful information to know. If your horse is eating 2 lbs of a complete feed, he likely is not reaping all of the benefits because the minimum amount is substantially more. Conversely, if he’s eating 12 lbs and still looks thrifty, a rational balancer or VM supplement probably isn’t going to cut it. What’s his BCS? How much bermuda does he end up eating when allowed to have free choice?

[Simkie]

@grandprixer

Thanks. What cheapish things would you then mix into an ideal supplement?

Well, it depends. What does the horse need?

I feed very good hay, and a lot of it. But I don’t have plentiful grazing, so I supplement vitamin e, and go with the pellets from Santa Cruz:

https://www.scahealth.com/p/ultracruz-equine-natural-vitamin-e-plus-horse-supplement

I also live in a high tick and high Lyme area, so add garlic:

https://www.springtimeinc.com/product/bug-off-garlic-horses/natural-horse-supplements

I feed less than the labeled directions on grain, so fill that gap with EquiVM:

https://uckele.com/equi-vm-50lbs.html

They all get flax, too, for shine.

Depending on the season, I’ll add oil for calories.

A couple get some MSM for anti inflammatory support.

One gets magnesium.

One gets chaste tree berry.

Depending on the hay, I might also add nutramino. Lately I can get good alfalfa, so I can skip for now.

Depending on the hay test, other stuff might be needed, like poly copper and poly zinc.

Really, it’s all about what the horse needs and isn’t getting from the rest of the diet.

I can cover quite a lot of this with something like Arizona copper complete, but it costs more than feeding all of the separate things. And I’d lose the ability to fine tune for each horse.

[bugsynskeeter]

UltraCruz’s Skin and Allergy is 86 cents/day in the powder and 89 cents/day for the pellet.

https://www.scahealth.com/p/ultracruz-equine-skin-and-allergy-control-horse-supplement

[JB]

@grandprixer

He gets grain AM and PM,

Ok that paints a bit of a different picture. How much?

free choice bermuda 8-10/hrs day, and turnout on grass 14-16/hours a day. I forget what brand grain, but we brought in a nutritionist last year for the whole barn who tested the grass and hay and decided no extra supplements (selenium, zinc, etc) were needed except in special occasions, which he was deemed not.

Coastal Bermuda? Another type? Coastal doesn’t tend to be great in the nutrition department. Did the nutritionist evaluate the digestibility of the hay?

@GraceLikeRain

I’d test your hay and grass. Hay and grass are not static.

Hay is “static”, assuming you have it all from the same field and same cutting, and you’ve properly sampled the batch (at least a random 10% of the bales). She indicated her hay and grass were tested. I don’t find testing grass very useful unless you’re willing to do it very often. The nutritional content varies a lot during the growing season, whether or not there are cool season grass in, or warm, the emergence of safe edible weeds, how much rain, how stressed the grasses are, etc

The brand, type, and weight of grain is also very helpful information to know. If your horse is eating 2 lbs of a complete feed, he likely is not reaping all of the benefits because the minimum amount is substantially more. Conversely, if he’s eating 12 lbs and still looks thrifty, a rational balancer or VM supplement probably isn’t going to cut it. What’s his BCS? How much bermuda does he end up eating when allowed to have free choice?

Agree :yes:

[GraceLikeRain]

@JB

Hay is “static”, assuming you have it all from the same field and same cutting, and you’ve properly sampled the batch (at least a random 10% of the bales). She indicated her hay and grass were tested.

The hay was tested last year so I would think that whatever is being fed now is likely a different cutting and may also be a different field.

[walktrot]

Mixing your own supplements is never a good idea. There is so much knowledge about equine health and nutrition than there was 10-20 years ago. We have way more choices of grains and supplements that target particular requirements. What is your horse’s problem and what will meet his needs? How do you determine and control the nutritional profile? What is the source and quality of ingredients? Too much of one thing, too little of another, something missing, trace minerals, wrong balance of omega 3 and 6 fats, structural and non-structural carbs, natural vs synthetic ingredients, bioavailability, the list goes on forever. I suspect that mixing your own probably winds up being more expensive over the long run with no assurance that it is helping and it might be hurting or not doing much at all.

I’ve used HorseTech.com for years. My aging gelding has been on their biotin and vitamin E with selenium. The vet recommended adding a joint supplement. I sent Rod, the owner, a detailed email and he recommended one of their HylaSport formulas with added ingredients for soft tissue support He also recommended adding liquid silica becasue the bioavailability is better than the dry form. Most of their products use a base of human food grade stabilized ground flax meal which is good for skin and coat. I prefer a single source becasue i know that he is getting what he needs and product quality is consistent.

[DinkyDonk]

I do single ingredients but don’t mix them together–MSM, flax, vit E, mag ox, glucosamine sulfate, etc. I personally don’t care for the “all in one” supplements as they usually have stuff in them I question. Not all horses require the same “stuff”

[Simkie]

@DinkyDonk

I do single ingredients but don’t mix them together–MSM, flax, vit E, mag ox, glucosamine sulfate, etc. I personally don’t care for the “all in one” supplements as they usually have stuff in them I question. Not all horses require the same “stuff”

Totally agree.

”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹Give the horse what it needs.

There are a lot of roads to Rome on how to do that, one is not better than another because it costs more and comes in a single bucket.

[JB]

“mixing your own supplements” is a very subjective thing. If the horse needs glucosamine and MSM and copper and zinc and vitamin E, buy them and mix them up. That’s different from trying to formulate your own fortified feed.

If someone can decide their horse needs X supplement that a company has formulated, that person could mix up that same supplement themselves, likely for cheaper. It may be a pita, it may mean a dozen different buckets to pull from, but it’s the same thing.

And a great many supplements have things the horse doesn’t need - not necessarily harmful, just wasted money, so picking and choosing what the horse needs (or “needs” ) may easily save a lot of money, even if it’s time-consuming to feed.