Just an observation here but…
Human anti anxiety drugs kind of backfire once in awhile because some anxiety is a good thing when you are competing in something that can get you hurt if you lose focus.
Sometimes you ought to be anxious. Know what I am saying? Horse can be anxious too, long as it can be channeled into a sharp and focused performance.
I duuno. I see some trips that scare the crap out of me and make the judge reach for the Xanax…and the rider is clueless and grinning.
Really sad when both horse and rider have to be drugged just to get into the competition ring.
They don’t need to ban it, it’s already illegal. It’s the “intent” to alter behavior that makes it illegal. How hard is that to understand?
[QUOTE=pds;6522700]
Really sad when both horse and rider have to be drugged just to get into the competition ring.:([/QUOTE]
You’re not kidding. It’s actually a little funny to me because our’s is the only sport in which that kind of logic is accepted.
Could you imagine if it were applied in other sports? “But Mr. Official, sir, I HAVE to do EPO. I’m not as fast as the other cyclists if I don’t. So I HAVE to. That makes it okay, right?”
In that scenario, said cyclist would be told that if they can’t do it clean, perhaps they shouldn’t be competing at that level.
Funny how nobody ever applies that to their horse or their riding…
What adults do to themselves is their business (though there is a section in the rule book about testing the humans. I’m just too lazy to look it up.) What people do to their children is probably child abuse, but , again, not regulated. When people “medicate” their horses with intent to change their behavior that is specifically illegal.
[QUOTE=Madeline;6522767]
They don’t need to ban it, it’s already illegal. It’s the “intent” to alter behavior that makes it illegal. How hard is that to understand?[/QUOTE]
I agree, it is not hard to understand. Some people choose not to understand as their way to maintain a guilt free conscience. 
[QUOTE=Madeline;6522777]
What adults do to themselves is their business (though there is a section in the rule book about testing the humans. I’m just too lazy to look it up.) What people do to their children is probably child abuse, but , again, not regulated. When people “medicate” their horses with intent to change their behavior that is specifically illegal.[/QUOTE]
You are all about harping the no drug showing- but you are too lazy to look up the rule for humans? Come on.
Humans can overdose JUST as easily if medications are mixed… it can be JUST as dangerous.
Not good.
Have not used Perfect Prep, have no need for it. But have used Magnesium (just the plain stuff) and it works WONDERS for my cresty and very tight muscled horse. He does fabulous on it, with the added bonus of a lot more focus. Well, I should say, less warm up time. So who knows if thats because his muscles are looser or he is more focused. Either way, Magnesium = greatness.
That said, I wasnt looking for the ‘calming’ aspect so much as the muscle effects. So cant speak to that. BUT, I have used a small dose of “So Calm” which is basically just L-Tryphophan for nervous travelers, and first times out cross country schooling for OTTBs, and yes, it most certainly has a calming effect. I wouldnt say it has a sedative level of effect, but you will see a difference.
I provided a link in post #7.
Here it is again.
Link to full 2012 USEF Drugs and Medications Guidelines.
http://www.usef.org/issuu/flipbook.a...elines2012.pdf
See page 32 or the lazy people can just read this;
GR413
HUMAN DRUG TESTING
In accordance with the rules of the FEI and of the World Anti-Doping
Agency (WADA), any Federation member shall comply with in-competition, no
advance notice (NAN), and other out-of-competition drug testing conducted
by the FEI, WADA, US Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) or by a WADA-authorized
organization or USADA-authorized organization at any time without advanced
notice. Failure to cooperate with such in-competition, NAN or other out-ofcompetition drug testing shall be a violation of Federation rules.
In conjunction with the above-described NAN or other out-of-competition
drug testing, the Federation is required to submit the names, current addresses, telephone numbers, training times and training and competition
locations for individuals and teams as requested by the FEI, WADA, or USADA
to enable FEI, WADA, or USADA to conduct NAN or other out-of-competition
drug testing. Notwithstanding the foregoing, compliance with anti-doping
regulations rests with the individual subject to testing.
A finding of violation of human drug rules by USADA or WADA shall be
deemed a violation of Federation rules, and the reciprocity provisions of
GR615.2 shall be applied.
Are you kidding me? People actually take Xanax for show anxiety? I can’t think of anything more dangerous. They gave me Xanax when I got my back injected last year. I was beyond caring about ANYTHING, I was totally looped. Who in their right mind would take that and ride?
Train your horse, train yourself. Otherwise, what’s the point of showing?
I know people who are jumping four star cross country on it. They school on it just to ‘take the edge off’ and then compete sober. Not saying I validate that either as an anxious rider myself I’d rather just get the beep over it at a level I’m comfortable at, but it does happen.
Or people how have a glass of wine, or a beer or 4 to get through the show.
I actually looked it up. I’m more concerned with wide scale use of a drug to calm horses (clearly a violation of both the rules and the intent of the rules). If the people are insecure enough and stupid enough and scared enough to drug themselves insensible to go into the ring and jump 2’6" or 3’ on their drugged horses, that is their choice.
[QUOTE=Madeline;6522767]
They don’t need to ban it, it’s already illegal. It’s the “intent” to alter behavior that makes it illegal. How hard is that to understand?[/QUOTE]
It is impossible to regulate “intent” in this context and magnesium is actually not banned, nor is it a drug, particularly if people are using it for purposes unrelated to calming.
I’m honestly much more concerned about IV mag, which has no benefit at all and can kill a horse quite easily, or dex, which is not illegal and is frequently administered to the detriment of many hunters.
And, sorry, I am as against drugging for show purposes as probably anyone out there, but, speaking as an attorney, USEF’s rules (all of them, including the drug rules) are horribly drafted and leave a lot to guesswork. If USEF intends to ban a substance or product, they should BAN THE SUBSTANCE OR PRODUCT. So if they know people are using Perfect Prep and they have a problem with it, they should just ban Perfect Prep. The reason they don’t is that there is no way to test for it, but at least if they banned it then someone seen administering it could actually be penalized.
Truly, this language is NOT clear:
“Any stimulant, depressant, tranquilizer, local anesthetic, psychotropic (mood and/or
behavior altering) substance, or drug which might affect the performance of a horse
and/or pony (stimulants and/or depressants are defined as substances which stimulate
or depress the cardiovascular, respiratory or central nervous systems), or any
metabolite and/or analogue of any such substance or drug, except as expressly
permitted by this rule.”
WHY? Because feed through magnesium is not really a “stimulant, depressant, tranquilizer, local anesthetic, psychotropic substance, or drug” and also because it is really unclear what is included within the scope of “might affect the performance of a horse.” Um, freakin’ electrolytes might “affect the performance of the horse” and arguably fall within the definition of “stimulant” in horses that are lacking in electrolytes.
You know people who school 4* cross country courses?
Please tell me where to find a 4* course open for schooling.
Not going to say anything on the drugs/no drugs debate but I’ve used it on my mare a few times in the past and she hated it. It made her super nervous, even more than she was before! I know that for some horses it works wonders but some horses also just seem to not like the “feeling” it gives them. Imagining it from a human perspective I feel like it’s comparable to going running while on allergy medicine/sleeping medicine. Probably would be very frustrating.
Do you folks really believe that USEF can ban the use of a vitamin or mineral that naturally occurs in the body? REALLY? How would that even work? You DO all know that magnesium is a MINERAL not a drug, correct? And it cannot accurately be classified as a “stimulant, depressant, tranquilizer, local anesthetic, psychotropic substance, or drug.”
At best, USEF can ban particular products (ex: Perfect Prep) or certain means of dangerous administration (ex: IV magnesium). And, FWIW, I think they definitely SHOULD ban IV administration of magnesium. I don’t know enough about Perfect Prep to have an opinion on whether or not that should be banned.
Next, you folks will be arguing that vitamin E and the B vitamins should be banned.
Good grief.
An example of USEF banning a specific product is the banning of Carolina Gold. So they obviously know how to do it if they want to, and could have done it long ago with Perfect Prep if they so desired.
[QUOTE=FineAlready;6523023]
Do you folks really believe that USEF can ban the use of a vitamin or mineral that naturally occurs in the body? REALLY? How would that even work? You DO all know that magnesium is a MINERAL not a drug, correct? And it cannot accurately be classified as a “stimulant, depressant, tranquilizer, local anesthetic, psychotropic substance, or drug.”
At best, USEF can ban particular products (ex: Perfect Prep) or certain means of dangerous administration (ex: IV magnesium). And, FWIW, I think they definitely SHOULD ban IV administration of magnesium. I don’t know enough about Perfect Prep to have an opinion on whether or not that should be banned.
Next, you folks will be arguing that vitamin E and the B vitamins should be banned.
Good grief.[/QUOTE]
Seriously- you’re going to find magnesium in an endless number of fortified feeds.
[QUOTE=skydy;6522161]
How is using this substance different than the “medicating” that you’ve done? No needle?
You are medicating when you use “Perfect Prep”, surely you know this…[/QUOTE]
This is something interesting that to be quite honest I never considered. I will have to look into it, might even give the office a call today to sort this out. Thank you for sharing. I do know that quite a few of the trainers here use this very frequently at horse shows.
Now I have another question as for human drug testing … I know quite a few people who have doctor prescribed medications for anxiety, depression, bipolar, anti-seizure etc … These are all very necessary prescribed medications. My question may be completely obvious but these medications would all turn up in a drug test. With a doctor released medical “note” of some sort would these positive tests be disregarded or would this still lead to a “ban” of those trainers. It may start a debate but I find this to be quite unfair if the person needs these, especially an anti-seizure medication which is quite often combined with an anxiety medication (not commonly zanex).
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