Does breeding a stallion affect temperment?

[Gil_s_Girl]

I’m a complete novice with more aggressive stallions, I’ve only worked with very gentlemanly ones in the past, so this is a bit of a learning curve for me.

6 yo WB stud I’m currently riding for owners is getting more studdish - I think it’s more an issue of too much feed/too little handling, but hormones might be kicking in too, which is what owners think - I’ve heard several people suggest that studs should not be bred until their show/training career is over, as it will make them harder to handle and more studdish - is this generally the rule? Does it vary from horse to horse, and is it ever the opposite?

Curious to learn more about how everyone manages this, thanks!

[acottongim]

Only personal experience, but I think YOU are the right one on this…

The stallions I’ve been around and the one that I own (and he is at a barn that is chock full of boys) all compete and breed at the same time. yes, they are sometimes more “up” but NEVER aggressive or unmanageable. They are stalled near/next to other stallions, mares, geldings etc. They all ride with horses of all sexes on the trailers, they are in the rings (and I know my boy has been cut off, and almost run into by more than one mare) with horses of all sexes. ETA - also, the boys have been collected in the am and then ridden (at home or in competition) later that same day or the next with no change in attitude. They know when/where is work and when/where is not. The ones that I’ve seen that have an issue with differentiating the difference is when the stallion is either not handled properly from the get go (allowed to get away with everything - either because the owner is afraid or thinks it is “cute”) and/or the ones that aren’t socialized at all. Yes, in the spring the boys might look a bit more and are aware but they should be paying attention to the job at hand.

[Equine_Reproduction]

[QUOTE=Gil’s Girl;6263526]

6 yo WB stud I’m currently riding for owners is getting more studdish - I think it’s more an issue of too much feed/too little handling, but hormones might be kicking in too, which is what owners think - I’ve heard several people suggest that studs should not be bred until their show/training career is over, as it will make them harder to handle and more studdish - is this generally the rule? Does it vary from horse to horse, and is it ever the opposite?

Curious to learn more about how everyone manages this, thanks![/QUOTE]

Temperament/libido, etc. is very much animal dependent. However, how they behave is very much a reflection on how they are handled and trained. Some stallions regardless of training, will ALWAYS be on their toes and alert and ready for action. However, if handled appropriately, fairly and with good boundaries and concise rules, they know when and where they are allowed to “let down their hair” as it were ;).

Obviously, if you feed a horse up, keep him penned up 23 hours a day and expect him to come out of the stall quiet as a pussy cat, chances are you’re in for an unpleasant and rude awakening and honestly, it’s not fair or realistic to the stallion, either.

One rule of thumb that we always try to emphasize is that whenver you are having issues, deal with the behavior and ignore the penis. Think how you would manage a mare or a gelding if they were behaving in a similar manner. If he is fractious and unfocused, put him to work! And always, always be fair.

Good luck!

[camohn]

I am on my second stallion. The first was first bred as a long 2 YO. I did not find it changed his temperment at all. He was a handful at 2, a minor handful at 3 and easy peasy by 4. I now have his son who was a later bloomer in the hormone department…he was easy through 3, a handful at 4 and now at 5 is settling back down now at 5. I would suspect that if the problem is starting at 6 that it is other things at play like handling/exercise/turnout.

[HyperionStudLLC]

[QUOTE=Equine Reproduction;6263665]
Temperament/libido, etc. is very much animal dependent. However, how they behave is very much a reflection on how they are handled and trained. Some stallions regardless of training, will ALWAYS be on their toes and alert and ready for action. However, if handled appropriately, fairly and with good boundaries and concise rules, they know when and where they are allowed to “let down their hair” as it were ;).

Obviously, if you feed a horse up, keep him penned up 23 hours a day and expect him to come out of the stall quiet as a pussy cat, chances are you’re in for an unpleasant and rude awakening and honestly, it’s not fair or realistic to the stallion, either.

One rule of thumb that we always try to emphasize is that whenver you are having issues, deal with the behavior and ignore the penis. Think how you would manage a mare or a gelding if they were behaving in a similar manner. If he is fractious and unfocused, put him to work! And always, always be fair.

Good luck![/QUOTE]

Very well said and I agree! There are so many factors involved, but the key is to make sure they know the boundaries of the “job” they are being asked to do. Boys will be boys, so expect the unexpected at all times.

In my experience we have stallions who have had sport careers and are retired to breeding, sport stallions who do both (young and older). They are all treated with the same amount of respect and that same level of respect is demanded upon them.

You can do both successfully.

[Gil_s_Girl]

I so agree with all this feedback, and it’s exactly the tact I’ve been taking - but having much experience w. stallions, I have a hard time feeling like I can really impose this view. It’s still really educational, I appreciate all the feedback and views - I’m hoping this horse can go to a trainer who will treat him like any other horse and expect good basics from him regardless.

[Fred]

[QUOTE=Equine Reproduction;6263665]
Temperament/libido, etc. is very much animal dependent. However, how they behave is very much a reflection on how they are handled and trained. Some stallions regardless of training, will ALWAYS be on their toes and alert and ready for action. However, if handled appropriately, fairly and with good boundaries and concise rules, they know when and where they are allowed to “let down their hair” as it were ;).

Obviously, if you feed a horse up, keep him penned up 23 hours a day and expect him to come out of the stall quiet as a pussy cat, chances are you’re in for an unpleasant and rude awakening and honestly, it’s not fair or realistic to the stallion, either.

One rule of thumb that we always try to emphasize is that whenver you are having issues, deal with the behavior and ignore the penis. Think how you would manage a mare or a gelding if they were behaving in a similar manner. If he is fractious and unfocused, put him to work! And always, always be fair.

Good luck![/QUOTE]

I agree with Kathy and the other similar comments, Hyperion etc…
Especially this last paragraph.:yes:

[MysticOakRanch]

[QUOTE=Equine Reproduction;6263665]
deal with the behavior and ignore the penis. Think how you would manage a mare or a gelding if they were behaving in a similar manner. If he is fractious and unfocused, put him to work! And always, always be fair.

Good luck![/QUOTE]

Would like to re-emphasize this! Please don’t beat the penis! I’ve now seen that result (not a horse I handle) - and you end up with a stallion that is scary to collect!

I own two stallions - one is high libido, the other is much lower. Both can be collected and shown, both are breeding stallions. It really comes down to consistent, fair handling. Making sure they understand when they are being ridden and when they are being bred. We use nylon halters for breeding, and leather halters for all other activities. ALWAYS. So the horse learns, ahh, the nylon went on, this is a studly event. When they get to the stallion station, they know they can be studly - everywhere else, they need to be riding horses. Some people use a different stud chain set up as well.

It can take a while, and the higher libido horses are always more “on”, but they can learn the rules, as long as the rules are fairly and consistently applied.

[holsteinersrock]

Probably varies from stallion to stallion, and certainly is influenced by how they are handled and trained!

My stallion Cicera’s Icewater has always been very polite, even when he is excited, and while he was showing with the O’Connors he trailered with other horses and hung out with stall guard only at show grounds with no incident! He was collected while he was actively showing.

But some can be very pushy and if they get away with intimidating behavior it will get worse. Stallion handling is better left to confident and experienced people. I was not experienced when I started, but it worked out OK, lol.

[omare]

Interesting reading…so stupid question but I can understand keeping a stallion focused and busy when working …but how would you “train” or condition a boy not to react to “neighbors” in a stall at a show or walking by in reach? Or is that some stallions are just less reactive, while others may need stallion boards and a screen up, when away in mixed company?

Is that a training issue or just different reactiveness in stallions?
TIA

[englishcowgirl]

I know a stud that is used as his elderly owners primary riding horse, he is also an OTTB (producing nice racers that do good in show homes after the track) He is a doll and will not breed until the chain is off his nose, even if presented with a mare. He was given very good training early on, and I am not sure how much of his docile personality is him and whats from the training. I do know that he is on 24/7 turn out in his own large pasture/private barn set up so that’s probably a help. They are not all firebreathing monsters though.

[rodawn]

[QUOTE=omare;6265343]
Interesting reading…so stupid question but I can understand keeping a stallion focused and busy when working …but how would you “train” or condition a boy not to react to “neighbors” in a stall at a show or walking by in reach? Or is that some stallions are just less reactive, while others may need stallion boards and a screen up, when away in mixed company?

Is that a training issue or just different reactiveness in stallions?
TIA[/QUOTE]

Stallions always think they’re king of the castle. Some are more reactive to what’s going on. Those should have some sort of screen up, but they should still be allowed to see and hear what’s going on. The purpose of the screen is to prevent busy mouths from connecting, or if a horse walking by happens to challenge the stallion, it prevents them from making contact. Some geldings will challenge a stallion and the result can be scary if it gets out of control.

Really, this reactive behaviour becomes better with exposure and this is where actively showing and housing your stallion in the barn where all the busy activity is going on will help him. And also letting his grass exercise paddock be situation where they can see and hear everything going on. Regular collection, correct and consistent handling, and plenty of exercise are what they really need. A stallion can learn when they are supposed to be polite and keep to themselves especially when the saddle goes on and they quickly learn the difference for when they’re heading to the breeding shed. A stallion should learn to be ridden when plenty of horses are milling about in mixed company. A saddle means get to business. The breeding shed is a different kind of business.

Stallions in general have much more energy than your average gelding and they are much more in tune with the various mare pheromones floating around too.

Any horse owner should not park their horse in front of a stallion’s stall under any circumstances and should not walk their horse within reach of any horse standing in their stall, especially a stallion. Of course, wide barn aisles make this actually feasible.

If his temper is so foul that he becomes enraged every time he sees a gelding or another stallion, this is one that should strongly be considered to be gelded. There’s a chasm-wide difference between TEMPERAMENT and TRAINABLE BEHAVIOR.

[camohn]

[QUOTE=omare;6265343]
Interesting reading…so stupid question but I can understand keeping a stallion focused and busy when working …but how would you “train” or condition a boy not to react to “neighbors” in a stall at a show or walking by in reach? Or is that some stallions are just less reactive, while others may need stallion boards and a screen up, when away in mixed company?

Is that a training issue or just different reactiveness in stallions?
TIA[/QUOTE]

I taught mine a phrase. With Boomer it was “not for you” with Junior it is “no talking”. When they started yelling they got backed up and told the phrase. Eventually they got the idea. Boomer was a lower libido stallion/took to it quickly/ Junior is a more studly guy and it took more time until he was responsive to it. As you noted…it only works when you are there…so I imagine each stallion is different. As noted above: Boomer got better being away from home with more exposure. Junior has not been away from home much yet. …have been working more/less time to show. Both boys have never had a problem knowing that saddle = work time. That was a pretty clear division of jobs. The in hand/barn stuff was harder.I only have one barn/there is no “stallion barn” so they have to learn to live with mares or they are not stallions here. Mine also live out most of the time.

[Equine_Reproduction]

[QUOTE=omare;6265343]
Interesting reading…so stupid question but I can understand keeping a stallion focused and busy when working …but how would you “train” or condition a boy not to react to “neighbors” in a stall at a show or walking by in reach? Or is that some stallions are just less reactive, while others may need stallion boards and a screen up, when away in mixed company?

Is that a training issue or just different reactiveness in stallions?
TIA[/QUOTE]

You will definitely see different responses and reactions depending on the individual stallion. But, they “do” learn with more exposure what will happen. Most will recognize that they are at a show ground and that the opportunity to PARTAYYYYY just isn’t going to happen. I’ve always found that when you restrict what they can see and hear, you will have more issues than just letting them see and making sure you take appropriate precautions. Put a tack stall between your stallion and other horses. Try to get a stall at the end of a row so that every horse isn’t being walked in front of his stall. And, probably the very best thing to do with a young stallion is TRY to take them everywhere. Eventually most will settle into the routine.

So, in answer to your question, it is more just conditioning and yes, somewhat dependent on the stallion himself.

[Dressage_Diva333]

[QUOTE=Equine Reproduction;6263665]

One rule of thumb that we always try to emphasize is that whenver you are having issues, deal with the behavior and ignore the penis. Think how you would manage a mare or a gelding if they were behaving in a similar manner. If he is fractious and unfocused, put him to work! And always, always be fair.

Good luck![/QUOTE]

BEST ADVICE EVER.

I get people all the time who see or hear about how my boys behave, and they can’t believe it. I treat them like horses, not fire breathing dragons. In spring, I’m more careful. They are good boys, but they are still boys… however fixing the problem at hand has always gotten farther in my experience. If the horse isn’t paying attention, THAT’S your issue. I will say that stallions seem to do worse, in general, than mares and geldings that are stalled constantly. That’s not good for any horse.