I am considering a purchase of a wonderful 15yo gray horse that has a considerable amount of melanoma tumors on his body. The tail, anus, genital sheath, eyes, etc… He also has a large 2-3 inch sarcoma or carcinoma and a fluid filled cyst on his leg.
Does the quantity and early onset offer a prediction for internal melanomas?
15 is not really early onset…
Mine always had small external ones under the tail, least from the time I bought it at age 10. It was dead sound until age 21 when retired for other reasons. At about age 24, new external ones appeared around the top of the head and the ones under the tail sort of fused into one. Unfortunately those are continuing to grow as the horse approaches 26.
I imagine there are internal ones as well but horse is still happy and very healthy. Would not bother me to buy another with the same degree of involvement at about the same age as mine was.
But for OP here, I think I’d pass. Don’t think anybody has done a study on the relationship of external melanomas to internal ones with enough study participants to yield meaningful results. But the external ones around the eye and that thing on his leg would send me running. I’ll take a chance up to a point- this is past that point.
YMMV.
Personally, I wouldn’t buy a horse with that many, regardless of age. Things are just too uncertain. However, if he’s perfect and cheap enough that if you lose him in six months you won’t be sobbing about loss of the purchase price, it might be worth it. I wouldn’t be imagining a long time with a horse with them that many places, because the external ones you already know about can cause issues.
I am so torn as he is perfect in every way… such a lovely horse that has low dressage scores and exceeds at Training level HTs and has a calm sweet attitude. My daughter is ready to start BN and he would be such a caretaker but I do not know what to offer and not offend. If he did not have the tumors $17,000 would be a steal but what is the risk worth?
I would pass. If they are that extensive now they will likely become problematic at some point. He has them in his eyes? That alone is an absolute deal breaker.
Absolutely no way I would pay $17,000 for that. NO WAY. It sounds like the seller has him priced appropriately for a horse without the tumours. If he has that many external ones, I’d bet money that he already has internal ones in the glands in his head and probably elsewhere. The sarcoma or carcinoma is a separate issue that needs to be sorted out with what treatment is needed and prognosis for that issue.
Also, be aware that you probably will not be able to get very good insurance coverage on the horse, and anything tangentially related to the tumours would be excluded.
I’d walk and save the heartbreak. Sorry. 
What my vet said about Melamona Tumors - they will prolly die of something else first. They are usually slow growing.
I’ve had some of my horses removed & they didn’t grow back. Can you have vet remove the one around the eye ? The anatomy your naming are common places for melanoma. As long as there are no tumors on the spine, near girth, in the mouth or any other place that will interfere w/riding - I wouldn’t hesitate in acquiring the horse.
In rapid growing melanoma it can look like brains w/black (smelly) fluid leaching out. Try to avoid that type 
Strikes me you are already looking at one vet bill for that fluid filled cyst on his leg, maybe another for the sarcoma/carcinoma on the same leg and perhaps a third for removing the melanoma near his eye before it starts to interfere with vision. On top of a 17k purchase price??? I don’t think so.
And yes they will be excluded from insurance but that will only be a problem until he hits 17 and can’t get insurance anyway.
If you are willing to pay that and have enough set aside for obvious upcoming vet bills? Why not just find a horse for 20-22500 that does not need obvious vet work in the very near future?
You would have to consult a vet to find out the %ages. I personally would not buy a horse with one melanoma, much less a lot of them. I’ve boarded where horses had them. Consult a geneticist to find out the odds. Most of them do live into their 20s that I’ve boarded with. But the melanomas were ignored by their owners.
There is a new vaccine out that is apparently working well to treat melanoma as well as prevent it. If you buy him, I would definitely pursue it.
I can’t imagine anyone being willing to pay $17k for a horse with a lot of obvious lesions as you describe. If you think you can manage the situation/risk, I might make an offer on him, but probably in the range of half or less the asking price (keeping in mind I don’t know anything about the horse, haven’t seen the lesions, don’t know how your daughter would deal if he didn’t pan out, etc). YMMV.
Is he a 1999 model? If so, I’d consider him a 16 year old. Even if he was born in 2000 and depending on your area, $17k sounds like an appropriate price for that horse without tumors. I wouldn’t consider it be a steal.
My main concern wouldn’t necessarily be whether or not there are internal melanomas. I’d be worried about the eye and sheath. If the melanoma in the sheath grows, it can block his urethra. If the melanomas are around the eye, they can grow and block vision. If the melanomas are IN the eye…I would be running away. Then you’ve got the sarcoma/carcinoma and the fluid-filled sack. Yikes.
If it were me and I was sold on the horse, I would figure out the cost to correct/treat/handle the above issues and subtract that from their asking…well if I was being ‘reasonable.’ Really, I’d probably offer well into the four figures. To the point were the sellers would probably be offended…better to just pass on the horse.
I agree with findeight. Either keep looking in that price range or expand it a bit to include the additional vet costs associated with this one.
I know finding a babysitter of a horse can be difficult and if your daughter really loves him, that’s hard as well. But I don’t think it would be that difficult to find what you’re looking for without these sorts of issues.
[QUOTE=poltroon;7912096]
There is a new vaccine out that is apparently working well to treat melanoma as well as prevent it. If you buy him, I would definitely pursue it.[/QUOTE]
Not at all inexpensive, though. Several thousand? Per injection? IIRC, only boarded oncologists can get their hands on it, so even finding someone willing to use it might be tough, unless you live near where one of the studies is being done.
OP, I agree with the other posters that he might be worth the risk, but certainly not for $17k. Knock an entire zero off, maybe :no:
You are all so level headed and make many valid points. I knew I was letting my emotions interfere with logic. It has been five months and I need to see where all of the tumors are again. I do not believe the eye was involved just the head/neck. I will ask for pictures of the tumor areas and show them to my vet to see if it is worth the trip to bring him to her for a more comprehensive exam…
I will also keep looking for another sweet, trained, and wonderful safe horse.
As someone who does own a horse with true early onset melanomas (he already had them at age 3) - and who was as stupid as someone could be when buying a horse with this problem - please pay attention to what folks are telling you above.
I am extremely fortunate that my horse has responded to Oncept (the dog vaccine) and I love him to pieces and have a good job, so the expense of keeping him clear of melanomas is worth it to me. Just FYI, he’s had 7 injections this year, which is approx. $2800, doled out in $400 increments. He’ll be down to 2 injections a year from here out, so that’s reasonable, to me. I also got a deal from OSU, I think because he was patient #1 on Oncept, and believe they are charging people more in the range of $500 per injection now.
I think it’s fair to say that the state of melanoma knowledge at this point is so sketchy that even vets in the know a) can’t tell you that the horse under consideration isn’t already riddled with them internally b) can’t tell you whether the vaccines available will work on any given horse and c) can’t predict at all what the projected spread of his melanomas will be. So getting a vet’s opinion will be just that - not many facts to help you make a buy/no buy decision.
You would be taking a huge risk. The fact that they want $17K for him is delusional IMHO. They are not only getting someone else to take this poor horse off their hands, they’re getting a ridiculous amount of money while taking advantage of you.
Use the search feature and read all the melanoma threads on COTH. If you decide to buy him, at least educate yourself about what you are getting into. And make them adjust the price accordingly.
Good luck!
I would pass. Also having a gray with EARLY onset…she had one under her tail head as a 2 y.o.! I was at the vetting and we all missed it. You had to crank her tail up over her head to see it and we didn’t do that. Had I seen it, I would have said no. It started growing quite quickly and got gross, gooey and macerated when she started swishing at flies. I had it excised in the fall. She is now 12 and I just found 2 more new dinky ones under her tail:(. Yes they are very small but seem to be popping up quite quickly. 1…then 2…now 3. I need to look into the Oncept. Either that or having them excised before they get too big (currently pencil eraser sized or smaller). And that is only what can be seen on the outside :sigh:
With a horse with that type of load and the locations…for sure no. It isn’t something you want to deal with.
Susan
We feel very very lucky
we have a grey PerchxTB who developed a flat quarter sized melanoma on the inside of the tail at about age 11
he is now 17 and this first melanoma hasn’t changed much
now he has a 2nd melanoma about the size of a pencil eraser next to the first
no other detectable melanoma anywhere
but we know 2 nearby people who had to put down their greys this summer from massive internal melanoma that was eating them up from inside
the first was in his 20s and they had developed over the years
the second was only about 11yo and was the walking dead most of this summer - all his melanomas had been aggressively growing for the last 3 or 4 years til he was totally un-usable
a comment from MY vet was that in her experience – if the melanoma developed well prior to 10yo and were evidently growing or increasing numbers then the prognosis was not good
but if the melanoma were more delayed and/or slower growing then prognosis was much more favorable for long term usability
this seems to be fairly correct if you fit all my friends with greys with melanoma into the equation
If it were me - unless this horse is HIGHLY skilled at some task you wish to learn from - then I think the price is far to high considering the melanoma involvement
I realize that I am not in the megabucks horse price set
but 17K is quite an investment that may be limited to only a year or two of use
The $17K is what he has been sitting at for 6 months but I was approached to make an offer. That they do not wish to just give him away but would entertain an offer and the family would discuss it together and come to a decision. When I looked at the horse five months ago the owner mentioned they had paid for a series of shots and that I would not need to repeat it… I had no idea what she was talking about until I read these forums. (Thank you!) I now believe it must be the Onset and I will need to find out how he responded and where he would now be in the schedule for shots.
I will talk to my vet today and I want to talk to their vet to see what his treatments have been and the response. That will help decide on possible treatment, cost, and if I should make any offer.
All of the responses here are very helpful and informative.
I will also continue to look for a horse with no baggage for my daughter.
[QUOTE=ghettozoo;7912744]
The $17K is what he has been sitting at for 6 months but I was approached to make an offer. That they do not wish to just give him away but would entertain an offer and the family would discuss it together and come to a decision. When I looked at the horse five months ago the owner mentioned they had paid for a series of shots and that I would not need to repeat it… I had no idea what she was talking about until I read these forums. (Thank you!) I now believe it must be the Onset and I will need to find out how he responded and where he would now be in the schedule for shots.
I will talk to my vet today and I want to talk to their vet to see what his treatments have been and the response. That will help decide on possible treatment, cost, and if I should make any offer.
All of the responses here are very helpful and informative.
I will also continue to look for a horse with no baggage for my daughter.[/QUOTE]
As far as I can tell from talking with the folks who developed the vaccine and those who have used it in horses, it is the minority of horses that have a meaningful response to Oncept. I think when the horse has larger, advanced masses it is expecting a lot for this type of immune stimulant approach to make a huge difference. I have tried a few different experimental treatments for my mare’s melanomas and not one has made an iota of difference. It has been said that you may need 6+ months to see any response from Oncept, but I would be really wary that you’re going to see anything significant if there isn’t much by now.
After dealing with my mare’s issues with her melanomas, watching one of my trainer’s horses have to be euthanized due to severe neurologic issues when he developed tumours that were pressing on his spinal cord, my friend’s mare who ended up having an eye removed due to a melanoma in it…I just wouldn’t go there. There is a chance that they will cause him no further issue in life, but the odds are decent that they may and I don’t like to constantly worry about those things. YMMV.
Ghettozoo, this is no reflection on you but I am amazed that these folks think they are going to get an offer on this horse of any amount of $$. You can see from the posts on this thread that most people are going to run the other way. I feel sorry for the poor horse - but the owners are nuts!
Start another topic on the eventing forum asking folks where you can find a good horse on a budget. Be specific about what you are looking for and what part of the country you are in. I’m sure the eventing folks will jump in to help you. COTH folks can be a great networking resource to help you find what you need and want!
I did post but it was removed in violation of advertising or specific horses being listed. I had asked about barns/stables/horses available for a young 15yo rider only riding for 2 years but has a good seat and in need of confidence building horse for BN eventing. Daughter is a C1 pony clubber and very dedicated.
I was asking for names or barns within 200 miles of Greenville,SC and that I was going to Aiken, Sc that weekend and asked about barns to call.
I guess I should ask for the information to be PM???
Or learn how others request this information and receive information that meets the rules. I do support rules and wish to be correct.
Seeking Event barn within 200 miles of Greenville for 15 year old BN rider. Eventually looking to buy or lease but need school horse to start.
Thats all you needed. IIRC your post went into too much detail and sounded like a horse wanted ad, probably generated some " I have one for sale" type responses instead of barn recommendations.
Try again mostly asking for trainers and barns. You should be OK stating DDs age and BN, most appreciate knowing you don’t have a horse but are looking to get one so they can direct you to an appropriate barn with something she can ride while she is looking. But no more and no specifics of the horse you are looking for.
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