Does this saddle fit? - Erreplus

[fermecinqsens]

Sorry to post yet another saddle thread.
I posted this question on the saddle fit FB group but I got conflicting responses, including some rude responses, and I find it’s not the arena to actually have discussions.

I am trialing this Erreplus Freestyle. 17”, MW for my two Lusitanos. The grey is M and the bay is MW. The saddle therefore is slightly wide for the grey but my saddle fitter suggested that since they are otherwise quite similar, I can fit the bay and shim the grey. I cannot afford two saddles. Please do not make comments about this choice. Also please note that this saddle is not new and the price of Erreplus in Europe is much less than in the US so this saddle did not cost as much as you might imagine (I say this after having endured some rude comments on the FB post).

My saddle fitter has not seen this specific saddle as she lives 2.5 hours away so I can’t just ring her up to come out. I had her out two weeks ago and the saddles that she brought (five Customs, an Ikonic, and an Aviar) either didn’t fit (all the Customs) or were too expensive (the Aviar) or I didn’t like (the Ikonic). I asked her if Erreplus might work and she said maybe. So, I found this saddle to try after having read that it has a flat tree and short panels, a point billet (all things I need) and liking the look of it for me.

My horses have flat backs, very short backs, forward girth grooves, low withers, and saddles have a tendency to slide forward. I have basically been looking for a saddle for four years and have tried many brands.
I have a long femurs and ride small horses so require a short, high, angled thigh block of a very specific shape.
All of this drastically narrows the possibilities…

Anyway to me this Erreplus seems like a good option. I realise the cantle is high but the seat looks like it is in balance, and given that this saddle is designed with a lower-profile pommel, to have a deep seat it makes sense to me that the cantle must be high.
The saddle fits me pretty good - not as good as my previous saddle (Custom Solo) but I think I won’t ever find a fit like that again.

Hoping for some thoughts on what you see in the photos.
The photo of the grey with the half pad is after my ride with 1 front shim.

[Against_All_Odds2]

I think this tree is a little too curvy. I’d go with the Connect WR model if you can find one. It’s like lego and you can swivel the flaps to your projection and move the panels together or father apart for channel width.

[CanteringCarrot]

I agree that the tree might be a bit too curvy.

[fermecinqsens]

I’m curious how you know the tree is too curvy? The saddle seems to sit flat on my horse’s backs without rocking and also doesn’t slide forward when I ride. Other saddles I’ve tried that have had the wrong tree shape have slide forward almost immediately.

The connect sounds nice if you can move the flaps! But I’ve looked and they’re too expensive even used. I also don’t think that long thigh block would work for me. I really need room for my knee.

[JB]

I can’t tell if the panels are too curvy, or if the rear panels are just upswept. Prestige for example has upswept panels, but not a particularly curvy tree, which makes them great for shorter backs that are flatter - the upsweep gets out of the way of the loins faster

If it sits flat, it’s not too curvy

It appears to fit the gray pretty well. What do you feel when you run your hand under the front panels, and the panels on the back? All even pressure without feeling like you’re “sticking”?

[Mondo]

It looks better on the grey than the bay. It seems to be sitting “uphill” on the bay.

That said, they both appear to be placed too far forward. I know you have mutton-withered Baroque horses, so maybe not an issue. Run your hand under the front panel and make sure that the back of the horse’s scapula is free to move. The saddle shouldn’t interfere with shoulder movement.

[fermecinqsens]

Yes it seems more uphill on the bay. She is built uphill and saddles tend to sit cantle low and need a back shim. Maybe I should try the shim in the back since the front seems to fit her well – ie., I don’t think it’s sitting up in front because it’s too narrow. ??

I think the panels are upswept? Because yes it sits flat on their back without rocking. Apparently Erreplus is the higher version of Prestige? The saddles are also thermo-adjustable like Prestige are.

[Posting_Trot]

I’d agree that the saddle on the gray looks like a better fit than the saddle on the chestnut. On the chestnut, the tree looks too narrow. (I’m not a saddle-fitter, just giving you an opinion).

The saddle on the chestnut looks uphill from the side and also, from the front shot (looking backward), you’ve got a significant amount of clearance–you could fit your entire fist all the way back.

I wasn’t entirely clear from your post whether you have two saddles (one for the gray and one for the chestnut) or whether you’re trying to fit one saddle to both. If it’s the latter, I’d say that this saddle won’t work for the chestnut–when you sit on it, you’re likely to jam the tree down onto the sensitive area either side of the withers.

Good luck with saddle shopping! It’s always a journey.

[JB]

@fermecinqsens

She is built uphill and saddles tend to sit cantle low and need a back shim.

rarely does a saddle need a rear shim to fit properly. If it needs one to sit level, it’s too narrow in front, or sitting too far forward. Do you have a pic of her without a saddle, standing on a flat level surface?

[beowulf]

Are you sure there is enough wither clearance on the grey once rider weight is in the saddle?

I understand wanting a saddle that fits both horses. That’s a realistic ask if their tree shape and tree size needs are identical. It gets much more difficult if they’re not. Given the photos, I would keep looking because it does not fit the bay.

Is this model an adjustable tree by laypeople?

Black Country is cheaper across the pond. I have a shared BC for two MW types, both flat backed with large shoulders. I don’t know if they have the blocks you’d like but it might be worth looking into.

You may have to sacrifice some of your requirements: what’s nice to have, and what’s an absolute must? In a perfect world I wanted a brown monoflap no-block serge panel 17 MW for my two horses. I really wanted an Eloquence. I settled on a black, massive-thigh block 17.5 Vinici and conceded on the other wants because in the end the real non-negotiable was fitting both horses.

[fermecinqsens]

The first saddle fitter I had for her told me to use a rear shim because the panels are rarely deep enough for her because she is built uphill. That was for a previous dressage saddle I had, but I find the same thing with my jump saddle that I use on both of them – although it fits her in the front it sits cantle low so I use the rear shim on that to compensate.

Here is a photo of her from yesterday. She had a foal 6 months ago and hasn’t been worked properly for 1.5 years so she is saggy at the moment. But you can see her wither (which actually isn’t high) is a fair bit higher than her back.
I’ve also added one from a couple years ago when she was actually fit that shows her back conformation better sans saggy foal belly.

[fermecinqsens]

There is not enough wither clearance on the grey, no, that’s why i have the shim. and then it is fine when I’m on him.
Erreplus is like Prestige: it can be adjusted to any width as many times as wanted, but it’s done by heat, not a press, so it has to be a specific person who does it.

I have a black country jump saddle that fits alright. I previously had black country vinici for the bay but it didn’t fit her properly – too much curve in the tree and it slid forward and was also too long for her back. It also didn’t fit me. Black Country aren’t easy to find in France (I bought the Vinici untried from the UK) and now that I’ve had the vinici that didn’t fit I’m hesitant to try anything else.
I also had an Albion Platinum Ultima for the bay that also was too long for her back, didn’t fit properly, and didn’t fit me.

[beowulf]

Gotcha. Thanks for educating me, I’m not familiar with Erreplus as we don’t seem to have much of it here. Cool concept.

Are there brands local to you that are similar to Wintec or Thorogood? Given your situation it sounds like a tree that you could adjust yourself could be the next best solution. Some do have custom block arrangements.

The shared BC for my two horses is also a Vinici. Great saddle for what I needed. I hope you can get something that works.

[fermecinqsens]

There are a lot of Kent and Masters here. I had a GP for some training horses that I absolutely hated and it didn’t even remotely fit my leg. It fit my horses though.

The saddle fitter I use brought an Ikonic for me to try on the grey. It actually fit him well but again I hated it and could not ride in it.

[SpicyPRE]

The one thing I would worry about is how much clearance your bay mare has thru the channel where her wither ties to her back. If the saddle moves forward at all, will it have contact? You might consider an anatomic girth to help keep the saddle back a bit.

[Bluey]

@SpicyPRE

The one thing I would worry about is how much clearance your bay mare has thru the channel where her wither ties to her back. If the saddle moves forward at all, will it have contact? You might consider an anatomic girth to help keep the saddle back a bit.

Traditionally Iberian horses tended to be ridden with croupers, to keep saddles from sliding forward due to their conformation.

[fermecinqsens]

I think that’s also because the traditional saddles don’t fit
I asked a very reputable company about getting one custom made, (I compete in working equitation too), because everything I was finding used was the wrong length and width. They had one already made available and asked if I wanted it. I said I was worried 17.5” would be too long for my horse’s back. They asked me to send a picture and then emailed back and said nope, it’ll fit. From a picture!! No measurements required!
So I think the crupper and breastplate are necessary because the saddles don’t actually fit the horses.

Anyway yes I already do have an anatomical girth - the one in the picture is a half moon.

[Obsidian_Fire]

A trainer of mine used to ride Lusitano’s, and her saddle of choice was County. They fit really well. Can you find one over there?
On a side note, the Erreplus you’re trialing is the same one I have, except I have a TB. I love mine.

[fermecinqsens]

Hmm I’m surprised they fit.
I tried a County Epiphany on the grey and it didn’t remotely fit — too long for his back, way too curvy, and the panels at the front attached really high, like a wintec/Bates, and they pinched his wither. My sister had a County Perfection for her banana-backed horse so I assumed County are just curvy and for high/narrow-withered horses

[JB]

@fermecinqsens

The first saddle fitter I had for her told me to use a rear shim because the panels are rarely deep enough for her because she is built uphill.

There’s no reason a saddle should sit cantle-low on her, there’s nothing special about her front to back build. Any saddle that sits pommel-high is either too narrow, the wrong shape, or it’s a saddle built for long flat backs without a lot of withers.