I came across a post on FB, alleging that Triple Crown feeds do not have a guaranteed NSC % because they are not printed on the feed tag. Is this true? Seems a bit fishy to me - I believe the people purporting this are affiliated with another brand, but I thought I would ask anyways.
pretty simple to google “Triple Crown feeds do not have a guaranteed NSC %” which will get you to Triple Crown’s Tag Guarantee chart
NUTRIENTS AS FED
(TAG GUARANTEED)
Many feeds don’t have much on the label. You mostly have to go to the website or even email the company for data. It doesn’t mean they don’t have data just because it’s not on the bag.
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Just ask them- I have had great experiences every time I have contacted them.
My guess is you are talking Jim the Feed Guy. If I am not mistaken he has stated he does not work for a particular feed company. He does love Purina and I think Nutrena. He works for a feed store that sells multiple brands. He is local to me.
That being said he has stated that due to various laws if the information is not on the feed label the company cannot be held to that by the government. It doesn’t count if it is on the website or in an email. They can only be held to meeting the values printed on the actual label. Anything else is marketing as far as government agencies such as USDA ect… are concerned. I am heavily paraphrasing.
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I’m a member of the FB Group.
I love TC feed.
On the ECIR site there are results of various feeds members tested at Equi Analytical.
Three results of TC Lite asf:
Starch/ Sugar %: (ESC)
7.8 / 3.1
9.9/ 3.5
11.1/ 3.7
The TC site lists max GA asf:
Starch 4.5
Sugar (ESC) 4.8
Site lists GA for ESC WSC and starch with * for out of range
I prefer a feed with starch lower than sugar.
Anyway IMHO the GA on TC is iffy.
As with most feed companies.
IIRC there’s a difference -somehow- on GA’s on tags vs printed on the bag. Some feed companies put info on tear-off tags. Others printed directly on their bags. The latter supposed to be “more” guaranteed.
I tested a RB with GA on the bag. S and S were good. The copper and zinc tested below min guaranteed.
I believe that Katy Watts from Safergrass was trying to get AAFCO to establish a label format for guaranteeing NSC levels in horse feed that could be proposed to the various federal and state agencies for adoption, but not sure if it ever went anywhere. The thing with feed labels is that have have to follow set rules/requirements, so not putting something on the label is often that they can’t, not that they don’t want to.
I would venture that this is more in relationship to the ingredient list not the GA. You’d need a fixed formula feed to print it on the bag since you can’t easily change it vs. a tear tag that can be modified/printed at the facility on a lot by lot basis.
There’s a difference between:
If it’s not on the bag/tag they don’t guarantee it
and
If it’s not on the bag/tag they aren’t held accountable
Tags are just as guaranteed as bags. A tag is easier and faster to change, but tag or bag doesn’t mean a formula is fixed ingredient, fixed formula, or non-fixed (which doesn’t mean it changes every batch either). You can have a fixed GA and alter the ingredients to meet it, so it’s still easy to put the GA on the bag.
Some states don’t even ALLOW NSC to be put on the bag/tag. States have their own requirements beyond just AAFCO requirements. I don’t know if there are other nutrients that some states don’t allow, but I imagine it isn’t limited to NSC
There is a minimum that has to be put in the GA bag/tag. Not adding anything else doesn’t mean there’s anything nefarious going on.
There are also allowances for deviation from what’s on the GA as well, as there is no 1 standard of testing. Different labs and different methods of testing yield different results. So yes, a batch could test outside of the min/max, or differ from the 1 number, and still be totally fine.
Jim The Feed Guy says a lot of things that aren’t true, and blocks people who provide him with Big evidence that goes against what he says.
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The “expert”:
"Jim the Feed Guy is Jim Fiorini.
This is Jim’s third career in the past 45 years. His first career lasted 10 years as a military and then commercial pilot. The second career lasted 32 years as a network and security consultant for business. So how does a flying computer geek become involved with horse feed?"
3 years experience? Anybody that signs on for his nonsense gets what they deserve.
This is worth a read; https://horsesport.com/magazine/nutrition/want-equine-nutritionist/
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I’m not going to throw anyone under the bus for their past careers. I was in IT for 30 years. I’m self-taught in nutrition (and conformation and parasitology), and rely heavily on research, actual nutritionists, actual PhDs, actual MsCs, those who actually took real nutrition classes.
A lot of people become experts in a field without having formal credentials.
I’d never call myself a nutritionist. Or an expert.
But I also didn’t just get my education from fed store owners. Or just from a few courses put out by a feed company.
He doesn’t believe in hay analysis. He thinks a ration balancer or fortified feed eliminates the need for any additional supplementation
He thinks “The only NSC calculation that matters is wsc plus starch.”. Tell that to Dr Kellon and the entire community of IR/EMS horses.
He rails against Triple Crown for claiming to be “whole grain free” while “proving” his point by saying they include wheat middlings and distillers grains.
His FB group is public, anyone can go read.
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I would hazard a guess that most people on this forum have more experience in horse management than Jimmy. However, they do not put themselves about as equine feed specialists.
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He booted and blocked me after I presented him with evidence based facts that went against his drivel. He knows just enough to post things that sound smart, and while some of his advice is ok, most ranges from wrong to downright scary. He loves Purina, abd that’s mostly what he reccomends, but yet they sell Triple Crown at the feedstore he works at. 🤷
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never mind!
Thanks everyone! I feel better now that this has been cleared up. I have an old horse with PPID, so low NSC % is critical to him. He’s been doing well on TC Senior (and now Gold),
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Don’t fix what ain’t broke!
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