Dog attack at Saugerties

I used to take my beautiful PWD to Morgan shows, and once, when i’d shaved his coat down to the skin, and his beautiful 2yr old muscular intact male body was showing in all it’s glory, one of the guys showing InHand offered me a young stallion in exchange for him. That made my day :wink: But, he was my first working dog, and when he became so proficient at his job, and i realized how precious he was to me in every other way as well, i stopped taking him to horse shows.

Fast-forward …Now I have 7 dogs, i train them to do real work in the real world. They …each and every one, are trustworthy and trustable, and for their sake i don’t take them to dog-parks, to public trails or anywhere else where i think offleash dogs (or retractable leashed dogs) might be running amok. For my OWN dog’s wellbeing. *I have to protect my dogs from other dogs!

years ago, when i boarded in GGPS in SF, and rode on the trails and ocean beach there were rules prohibiting off leash dogs, and yet there they were. My beautiful hot Morgan park horse was quite a good shot with his hind and i didn’t discourage him.

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Exactly! I did not get another dog after the last one passed because my time and finances are not such that it would be fair to the dog. And believe me. My kids bug me pretty much daily about wanting a Corgi.

People arguing that they have to take their dogs because dog sitting is too expensive? That’s like me arguing that I should be able to bring my 10 & 12 year olds with me to the Snoop Dogg/Wu Tang Clan concert I want to attend this fall because “child care is too expensive”. Snoop Dogg is a luxury. Not a necessity.

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Yes the cost of pet sitting /kennel is pretty rich when spoken by someone at a horse show

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You realize that there are people who attend shows to work, right? Not everyone on the grounds is there to show.

And not one of my employers has allowed me to bring my children to work due to save on the exorbitant cost of child care. Seriously. I’m divorced and my ex takes the kids less than 5% of the time. I’ve worked crappy hourly-paying jobs while they’re in school the past several years because it works out to more take home pay than a job in my professional field with before/after school child care.

I can’t tell you how many boarders I’ve seen bring dogs to the barn with them in the evening: “Oh, I hate to leave him home after I’ve been at work all day.” Only to have to shut the dog in their vehicle because it keeps snapping at people and horses. Yay. What fun for Fluffy it must be getting dragged along to whip himself into a panting, nervous tizzy in a hot truck instead of staying in the air conditioned comfort of home.

If people want to bring dogs to shows, train them! Is it that hard? Not to mention, I have little faith in the ability of someone to train my horse if they can’t train their dog.

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Yep.

I don’t need to accomodate your choice to have animals.

I have a horse that is incredibly dog tolerant given his sensitive nature. I am thankful for this because I know if a dog got into his space and he were to kick or step on the dog, I’d be blamed. Not the person with the off leash uncontrolled and unmonitored dog.

I have a dog, a young dog, and I do take her to the stable with me on days that I don’t ride. She stays on her leash and is within a meter of me at all times. I can hook her leash end to the wall and she sits or lays directly there while I am grooming or filling a hay bag/feeding my horse. She is always supervised. If my husband comes to the stable with me then she is always with him while I ride and take care of the horse. If this cannot be done, she stays home. Simple. She is well behaved but she is also young so I don’t put her in certain situations that her level of training simply cannot handle. I consider it a priviledge that I can even bring my dog to the stable.

There are some people that go off and ride wherever while leaving their dog to roam the property. The dog chases cats (it is their home), it gets under the farrier and the horse he is working on to eat the hoof scraps, gets into whatever, runs into the arena when the door opens, and I could go on and on. I, personally, am not comfortable with that liability. Some will leave their dog in their stall while they ride, and the dog rests quietly. That’s ok. The dog is contained and quiet.

I am not offended by no dog rules at stables or show venues. It is their property, their rules. No one needs to consider my dog. It’s a HORSE show or HORSE stable. It is not a right to bring your dog, it is a priviledge…that you should not abuse.

Due to the variance in training levels, expectations, and general intelligence of the population, I think it may have to be a hard rule that is no dogs. Not dogs on a leash or whatever, because people don’t listen or interpret the rule as they’d like. There needs to be a “no” rule and actual consequences. Having a rule without consequences is just asinine.

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Yes, but most people going to work can accept it when their boss says “No, you can’t bring your pet with you…To.Work. (eye roll).”

I love it that someone gets to make an argument about entitlement from a position of budget constraints… when what we are talking about is bringing a dog to a horse show and not, I dunno, getting something legit like health care.

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I expect no one to complain when your horse club membership fees go up, or even double - how ridiculous to complain about another $150 per show! :wink:

People saying “I take my well behaved dog to the barn because she’s well behaved and I keep her on a leash” are proving my point - well behaved dogs are ok. Not well behaved dogs are not ok. If you can manage your dog well and it isn’t snappy/growly/barky, it’s fine to bring it. If you can’t or your dog isn’t wired to be quiet, then don’t. Easy.

With this logic, no one should complain that average amateurs are getting priced out of horse shows period…

…yet they do, and it is a big problem in the perspective of the horse industry.

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How do you not “get it” that things like membership fees are part of the “bare bones” expense of what it takes to show at all at a USEF show while bringing a dog is not? Confused.

You make all kinds of assumptions about Meupatdoes’ financial standing, edging dangerously close to simply making an ad hominem attack, solely because you can’t fathom the difference between necessary and optional. Truly. I don’t get it.

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The problem is that everyone believes their dog is well behaved.

I do have to say, though, that steep enough consequences for owners really can help shape behaviors. Our largest show management company here is quite fierce about ticketing off-leash dogs anywhere near the rings. Can’t remember the exact amount of the fine, but it’s over $100. It is now incredibly rare to see an off-leash dog near riding areas at that venue. Even the rate of off-leash back at the stabling has been drastically reduced during “business hours”. Still lots early in the morning and late in the afternoon. Not so much during high traffic times.

Same outfit did ban a dog that bit someone (me, as a matter of fact), and denied the owners’ entries to subsequent shows until the agreed compensation (replacing my ripped breeches) was paid.

I’ve said it before on another thread…still waiting for the day I’m allowed to set my horse free in the middle of a dog show.

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An excellent point.

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And she of mine, and I didn’t start it. Assuming that someone can afford dog care because they can afford to do a local schooling show is ridiculous. For some of the local shows, the dog care would EXCEED the cost of the show itself. Some of us are alone in this endeavor, and can’t even afford (or don’t find it valuable enough) to join the governing bodies.

A show for me is $150 max. Read that again. $150 MAX. I’m not talking about the $1500 for-a-stall week long shows with a trainer riding my horse in a few warm up classes with a grand total of $2500+ with a groom holding my hand. It’s a one day thing, often on Sundays, when I’d have to board my dog on Saturday afternoon because I’m on my way to the show at 4am on Sunday when the dog care place isn’t open yet, and I’ll be done too late to pick her up so I have to go get her Monday after work … so I’d pay for 3 days of dog care for a one day horse show, because Little Miss Money can’t keep her mutt on a leash? 4/5 days of dog care if the show is a little further and I’m camping? Are you kidding me?

I don’t see how enforcing the existing dog rules is out of the question, and the obvious answer is to ban dogs.

People will still bring dogs if you ban them, because they still let their dogs off leash when it isn’t allowed - because the problem is that they aren’t enforcing the rules. You think they will ask Little Miss Money to leave the show grounds because she’s got her dog with her, if they won’t even ask her to clip a rope to Spike?

As I said way back in the thread - don’t fix the wrong problem.

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FWIW, for those saying you can’t bring your dog to work… @meupatdoes can! :lol: I’m jealous to be honest.

The point you still aren’t grasping, is that horse showing is optional, it is not a necessity, just as much as owning a dog is optional, not a necessity. It really doesn’t matter how much you spend at the show in comparison to someone else.

Instead of paying for three days of dog care, you could look for a neighbor to do you a favor, or pay a local dog sitter/walker to take care of your dog at your house just on Sunday. Or, choose classes at the show that will be scheduled in such a way that you don’t have to be at the show sun-up to sun-down. I have hauled in to many a show and my show day was a total of six hours including drive time. Now, if your closest show facility is 3 hours away, sure, that’s not possible. But still, there’s other options.

To quote @meupatdoes
“This is a luxury hobby you WOULD LIKE to participate in, but the world does not owe you horse shows in the manner that is most convenient and affordable for you personally.”

HORSE shows are HORSE shows, not dog shows, they don’t owe anyone the ability to bring their (well-trained or not) dogs along.

In a fair world, everyone’s dogs would be perfectly trained by Cesar Milan, wouldn’t make a peep, would stay where their owner told them to stay at all times, and wouldn’t cause any issues at horse shows or other public spaces. But this isn’t a fair world, so yeah, while "Little Miss Money"s exist and ruin events for the rest of us, the simplest option is that dogs just simply do not go to horse shows.

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I event, so I don’t pick anything in regards to timing for my rides. Basically - agree to disagree on all counts. If the local shows said that dogs weren’t allowed, I would either 1) break the rule like everyone else does, or 2) not show. The 2c ribbon is not that important to me to break my budget. I have X amount of money for the show budget per year, which affords me 2-3 local schooling shows. Tripling that having to pay someone to watch my dog is out of the question. I will just use that money for something else, and stop supporting the local venues.

Bottom line is: I don’t think saying no dogs will solve jack squat because they already say dogs need to be on a leash and it doesn’t do squat.

So what is the point of making another rule you aren’t going to enforce?

Back full circle - has the owner of the known aggressive dog, Lynn Reed of Fox Run Farm, made any statement in regards to the event that started this thread?

Rules don’t do squat because people like yourself feel entitled to break them. I hate it when people make life choices and refuse to shell out money or complain about how much it costs. Either don’t show or pay for dog care. I can’t stand it when people complain about child care either.

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And if I’m the only one obeying the rules, that doesn’t do jack squat either, does it? It was a hypothetical situation, anyhow. My dog is on a leash at the shows that allow her - don’t get your knickers in a twist.

There is one schooling show in the area that doesn’t allow dogs - because the property owner himself runs several border collies on sheep, and his dogs are running amok all over the property during the horse show. Therefore, I’ve never been to a show on his property. I can’t afford it, if you account for the dog sitting. Plus I don’t want my dog around his dogs. Voila! See?

Can we ban kids too? It’s not a playground, it’s a horse show. I’ve had more little children running around ruin a ride than dogs, by a long shot.

I think some people aren’t really hearing what I’m saying. HEAR YE HEAR YE: I’M WILLING TO NOT SHOW IF THEY WONT ALLOW DOGS. I HAVE OTHER FINANCIAL PRIORITIES AND HAVE A SHOW BUDGET THAT WON’T ALLOW FOR DOG CARE. So let it be said, so let it be done. Amen.

I’m just saying that not allowing dogs won’t actually solve the problem, because there’s already a leash rule that isn’t enforced. Comprende???

Edit: Also. I would not be complaining if from the beginning dogs weren’t allowed at shows and I went and got one anyhow. That would be stupid. I’m complaining that they want to change the rules in a way that will cost me a lot more money.

Like if your insurance rate doubles for half the coverage. That would be complaint worthy.

I’m starting to think people’s budgeting is different than mine or something. When I say I have X to spend, and 3 shows cost X - (.95X), if the price of X goes up exponentially, I eliminate the shows and reallocate the money to other areas. I don’t just keep shelling dough into it. Eh, whatever. Carry on, carry on.

Places that enforce leash rules should be the norm- where I show quite a bit has an automatic $50 off leash fine, and it works. I love dogs at shows- I love the variety, it’s fun for the dogs and their people if they are trained and familiar with shows, and I also know that many barns use them as guard dogs for their stall area.

On the other hand, there are a lot of jerks out there who don’t have control over their dogs- so perhaps there needs to be a better culture of responsibility in the H/J world. I’m a jumper rider but I ride and train and board with eventers. Events have tons of dogs at them, people are good about keeping them on leash, and in my experience over the years you just don’t see issues. It’s not rocket science, but there is an expectation at events- from one day unrecognized to FEI three days- that people will practice good dog management, and they do.

I’ve been taking my now 8 month old puppy to the barn and to jumper shows and events since we adopted him at 8 weeks old. He’s on leash at events and shows, and ties nicely to my rig (just like my jumper, which often tends to freak out the H/J folks!). I can leave him for HOURS with some water, a stick or a bone, and a comfy place to lie and he will happily hang out, or I can bring him on coursewalks, to watch other peoples rounds, to walk a XC course with my friends, to lay at my feet while I chat with other people or eat my lunch, or whatever. He really enjoys going with me- I even brought him down to Aiken for our spring trip when he was only three months old. As soon as he gets in the truck he sacks out until we get to wherever we are going. I don’t bring him to places that don’t allow dogs, obviously, but otherwise he comes everywhere.

At my barn he is never on leash- our BM/trainer brings her own pup and all dogs are welcome so long as they behave. If they don’t, they get schooled, and we’ve never had anyone who needed to be kicked out- my puppy had to learn that he can’t play in the rings, and that sometimes horses don’t actually LIKE dogs. When I ride he is either dorking around with the other dogs, down in the barn next to my trunk, or lying on the sidelines chewing on whatever gross thing he may have found in the woods.

I have done nothing special other than good, basic training, and just acclimating him to barn and show life from Day 1. We have two other dogs we adopted as older adults and they stay at home because I can’t guarantee they would be as well-behaved as the puppy, although when we go to our friends’ farm for the weekend (where my older horse is retired), they are great with the horses and pigs. But they haven’t been raised up in it, and I don’t know if they would take all of the activity in their stride the way the puppy does, so I don’t bring them. To me it’s a pretty simple equation, but enforcement of leash rules might help foster more of a culture of responsibility for us.

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At which point, I’ll want to bring my well-behaved cat (well-behaved because she’s too fat to actually do anything) to the gallery of the Supreme Court. I wanna go and I love my cat (and who wouldn’t) and some shizzle about my taxes paying RBG’s salary so, yanno…Q.E.D.

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