Correct.
I totally disagree on many of your statements.
Complaining that the steak house now requires a $20 valet is a completely valid complaint. Complaining that the steak house doubled its prices is a completely valid complaint. Complaining that the steak house that used to, no longer allows children is a valid complaint.
Complaining that people keep their dogs off leash and out of control is a completely valid complaint.
[B]However, making a new rule when you canāt or donāt enforce the first is totally stupid.
Why? Because the rule breaking is the problem. The people are the problem. Not the dogs. [/B]
FWIW, Little Miss Money isnāt you, meupatdoes. Itās the entitled assholes like the original subject of this thread. What makes anyone think that this woman, who continues to bring an aggressive dog to shows, will even entertain the idea of a full-blown dog ban? She wonāt give a rats behind, and the show management will continue to cower.
Iād have a guess that if your employer suddenly says ācanāt bring your dogs to work anymore,ā that would elicit more than an āaww shucksā from you. An assumption, that youād be a little more ruffled than that.
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I get it sucks going from rules about dogs on leashes to a straight ban. However, you hit the nail on the head when you said you budget differently. If I didnāt have my amazing dog sitter, my show budget would INCLUDE dog care. My show budget encompasses everything itās going to cost to get me and my horse in the ring including dog care. That was meupās point.
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Dude!
Justā¦ Dude. Donāt have more words than that about what kind of argument this is, or who is who. And of course people are the problem! We always are. The animals are just doing what they do. (Though, without judgment, I must say that I donāt understand the appeal of a selectively-bred predatory. Iām a Kat Kuddlerā¦ at the opposite end of the spectrum if I own a carnivore at all.)
But, endlessclimb, I think I see the problem: If you choose a high-maintenance pet and a partner who lives with you and the dog but canāt help for one long day, and you are (proudly) scrimping to got to three $150 shows in a year, then you have it hard: You have a ton to try to manage by yourself, with lots of people around who canāt or wonāt help, notably your partner.
And so why not get show management to honor your plight? But I donāt see why they owe you more help than the folks close to you.
Look, Iām single and always have been. I get it. Everything from making sure the laundry gets done to making sure the house is painted, to making sure there is money there for all that falls to me. But so what? Thatās just adulting.
And none of what I have to do in my life means jack about what others can charge or who they decide their customer is (people with fat wallets or without kids) or what their rules are. If there are enough of āmeā such that we collectively become an invisible hand that causes a business to change, thatās awesome. But Iām here to tell you that the single crazy cat lady isnāt a large and powerful demographic, so I get used to working a little harder than those with āhelpā to get my life done, and I choose animals that I can manage without help that I cannot get.
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I knew someone would go there. My partner has their own hobbies and interests that occupy their weekends. The dog is mine. If I canāt bring her to a show, I just wonāt go. No problem. If shows disappeared off the face of the planet, thatās alright by me. I do it as āsomething to doā, not a driving force as to why I ride.
Hence the limit on how much money Iām willing to blow on it. Hence the reason I donāt show recognized. Hence the reason Iāve got a super reliable truck and a really safe trailer and have spent god-knows-how-much money on making sure my horses get the best care - because thatās my monetary priority.
I donāt understand why it is unreasonable to complain about proposed changes that will cost more money. Whatās that long thread on the dressage board about raising the freestyle requirements - well hell, you should just buy a nicer horse that can get the scores and quit barking. Or how many complaints about association membership fees. I suppose I donāt understand why some things are ok to complain about, but others Iām just a privileged jerk.
Ah well. Horse people are nuts. Iām on the boat with ya. Agree to disagree.
What a charming thread. 
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Nobody has ever HAD to choose between showing their horse at a horse show or staying home with their dog because NOBODY HAS TO DO EITHER THING.
Horse people AND dog people are nuts. This thread proves it 
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I totally agree and will go one better, people in general are nuts.
I would really like to know if the dumbass I started this thread about is still taking her killer dogs to the shows with her.
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Iād just like to point out that the rules and laws that govern our entire society have often been reactive measures based on things that went awry in only a handful of cases. Here are a few completely unrelated examples: Sarbanes Oxley Act put in place to prevent situations like Enron; the TSA wasnāt a government agency until after 9/11; schools not allowing peanuts in the school because there are a couple kids with peanut allergies; requirement for school bus chaperones because one bus driver was charged with pedophilia; etcā¦
One dog attack is all that is needed to precipitate a rule change, even if said dog owner was clearly negligent. Sure, it isnāt āfairā to the majority of people that are acting responsibly, but it is just the way life goes.
In this case we are talking about two things that are luxuries: showing horses and owning dogs, which are mutually exclusive lifestyle decisions. If you canāt accommodate both while following the rules, then boo-friggin-hoo.
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I totally get your point of view. Butā¦if dogs were banned at recognized shows, itās pretty likely that the people going to those shows have enough money to set some aside for dog care for the shows. And if they donāt, that could easily be another thing put into the budget. Going to maybe one or two shows a year vs. people that regularly go to shows maybe once a month or every other month, or more, is a different ball game.
It sucks, but if they canāt figure out a way to enforce good dog behavior consistently, and the only option is to just ban dogs, thatās just what would have to happen. We can all figure out ways to deal with it, people tend to be pretty adaptable. And for the ones that say they donāt really care if they show or not, then I donāt feel like this really affects you as much as the ones that show regularly or put their heart and soul into getting to go to a few shows anyways.
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If you donāt show at recognized shows, any ban they might impose on dogs would have no effect on you, though.
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Good point about the nature of legislating for the worse offenders and not the average problem.
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In my area at least, boarding options and pet sitting options are everywhereā¦and cheap. Most of the vet clinics that board locally charge under $20/night for full care boarding, including food if not provided by the owner, and many have evening and Saturday drop-off and pick-up hours. The certified pet sitter business is also booming; I have a friend that pet sits on WAG that reports that if you donāt respond to an inquiry within a few minutes, youāve lost it to another sitter. Many of these sitters will do not only in-home visits, but allow your pet to stay in their home. And they have insurance and are certified, with plenty of reviews. Now, if your dogs are difficult, thatās going to severely limit your boarding options. But for good, well-behaved dogs without too many health issues or limitations, the options are plentiful.
I just donāt understand the mentality that youāre entitled to these luxuries. Itās a lot easier to enforce a complete dog ban than a leash ruleā¦thereās no he-said, she-said about the dog being under control or leashed. Theyāre simply at the show or theyāre not. As far as your partner not being able to help outā¦weāre talking about three shows a year, right? That hardly seems like a lot to ask.
Regardless, if youāre showing locally, a USEF leash ban isnāt going to impact you. Unless, of course, the schooling show barn owners decide to follow suitā¦which is their prerogative, and completely within their rights. I truly donāt think entries at any show, schooling or rated, are going to drop significantly because dogs arenāt allowed.
And as far as the argument that shows canāt just change the rules on you when theyāve always allowed dogs and thatās how youāve always budgetedā¦Show rules change all the time that affect our lifestyles and the way we have to budget. One of the big showgrounds in our area no longer allows competitors to show off their trailer. Everyone is required to have a stall now, which means you have to account for extra prep and clean-up time to set up and tear down your stall area. It means you have $150 extra in stall fees, and companion horses canāt ride along for the visit for free anymore ā they each need a stall at $150 a pop. Rules change. If you donāt like it, no oneās forcing you to show.
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Two other thoughts:
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I, too, have mixed feelings about a leash rule versus an all out ban. Suffice to say, if I had a $1 for every person that let their dog pull out to the end of one of those $&-($:)ā! retractable leads to get up in my Mastiffās face while cheerfully calling āIs your dog frrrrriendlllllly?ā I could buy Totilias. People. Donāt. Think. Itās a little late if heās not friendly, eh? Considering he weighs more than both of us combined and can exert twice the PSI of a pit bull biting down.
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Every year, several dogs get lost or stolen from show grounds here. And I just read about a terrible incident that just happened in Louisiana where a dog owner was running errands with his dog and left the engine running for the AC. Some meth head woman stole the truck and then abandoned it with the dog locked inside. Dog died. Last year, a polo player here left her dogs in her unlocked truck while she ran into a restaurant to pick up take out. Came out and the dogs were gone. Got them back, but it was weeks of worry for her. Itās not just the risk of them biting or getting bit. Theyāre safer at home.
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I have had working Border Collies for many years, like, the kind that go out and herd flocks of sheep. Those dogs NEVER went over, under, or around a fence to get at sheep unless I clearly and explicitly told them to. Freely going after their prey animal (as it were with herding dogs and livestock) was absolutely not permitted, they were trained accordingly, and I never had a problem with it.
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I canāt say for sure, but Iād guess thatās because those dogs are trained to take guidance on what to herd, when, and where. They can see their target clearly, and are to take direction from a handler on what to do with their subject.
An upland bird dog is totally different - independently supposed to go out into the unknown in cover that is 4-5ā high looking for something they donāt know the location of, without any guidance from the handler. They are to run wildly and blindly until BAM they catch scent. Weāve had them go on point as far as 3/4 of a mile away. Their āobedienceā is limited to a whoa and a recall, more or less - their ability to hold point is developed over their training in general (hold point = get bird, break point = no bird). Some can take directional guidance if they improperly mark a downed bird and canāt find it (more of an issue with dogs that are steady to wing and shot). The hunting shows you see donāt feature dogs like that, because theyāre impossible to film - you see the loafer bird dogs that wonāt venture further than 50 yards out.
We want the upland dogs to be pretty damned wild and wirey, as they have to be autonomous with a boatload of stamina. You donāt want a dog that relies on you to push them along, guide them, turn them, anything. They are to just RUN until they smell a bird.
This time of year, when you canāt get training birds without losing an arm and a leg, the dogs start going berserk - anything with wings has their 100% rapt attention. When we can get quail for training again, they will calm down. Until hunting season, then theyāre nuts again.
Retrievers would likely be easier to contain, as they arenāt ever to be out finding things the handler hasnāt shot first. I donāt have personal experience with that, though.
And last I checked, sheep donāt fly away, leaving a dog with nothing. The dog knows that, especially an extremely intelligent dog like a collie. 
Both very high-drive dogs. Completely different in how that manifests. I donāt think bird dogs are as smart as collies, honestly.
(Allllllll that said, I donāt know what type of dogs the person who was referencing their dogs go over fences has. I know our bird dogs have gone over/under the backyard fence (6ā chainlink with those plastic privacy slats) a few times, so I am speaking for that.)
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Why would I want a dog like that at the horse show? The moment it thinks it sees feathers is tearing your arm off and running for miles?! And then runs on its own for ages and ages. What if it gets loose and goes tearing through the show grounds after a bird? If a dog is truly this out of control it has NO PLACE at a horse show where other people are paying good money to SHOW THEIR HORSES free from the distraction of a loose dog tearing through the ring and around the grounds. Iām sorry but if your dog truly behaves this way that is even ANOTHER reason that it should stay home from the show.
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Interesting. My friends have bird dogs and they most certainly know when itās time to work and when itās not. They donāt just randomly go after birds. Nor do they go nuts in the off season.
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I meanā¦why WOULD you want those dogs at a show? Their apparently unique inability to contain themselves aside, they donāt seem like good horse show dogs. I leave two of mine at home and bring the puppy because the older guys might not enjoy the show, not having been raised up in the horse world. But the younger one does because heās been going since I could still lift him into the truck- heās getting to 70lbs now, so Iām trying to get him to hop in there on his own steam!
I also feel as if this isnāt a problem for the bird dog poster- if you go to such cheap shows, are they recognized? If not, you are making protests about something that wonāt affect you. If they are recognized please tell me where because I want to show for $150!
Related to that, I am going to assume these buck-fifty-ers are not multiday shows- my dogs, even the puppy, all survive being left for the day in our house. We donāt use crates, and aside from sometimes not puppy-proofing appropriately and coming home to a toilet paper massacre, we are able to leave them alone without undue worry. SURELY there are solutions to what actually doesnāt appear to be a problem for anyone except those who might have to deal with crazed bird dogs zipping around uncontrollably after the geese or whatever? My puppy is my barn dog and goes everywhere with me because he knows how to behave and I like having a big dog around when I am traveling by myself. However, if he was a pain in the butt I would leave him at home.
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Not for nothing, but if you decide to own a dog who is a flipping WENDIGO thatās your choice and itās going to require YOU to adjust YOUR lifestyle and not the whole world to bend to accommodate you.
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:lol::lol::lol: Wendigo
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