Dog attack at Saugerties

[meupatdoes]

@endlessclimb

I can’t say for sure, but I’d guess that’s because those dogs are trained to take guidance on what to herd, when, and where. They can see their target clearly, and are to take direction from a handler on what to do with their subject.

An upland bird dog is totally different - independently supposed to go out into the unknown in cover that is 4-5’ high looking for something they don’t know the location of, without any guidance from the handler. They are to run wildly and blindly until BAM they catch scent. We’ve had them go on point as far as 3/4 of a mile away. Their “obedience” is limited to a whoa and a recall, more or less - their ability to hold point is developed over their training in general (hold point = get bird, break point = no bird). Some can take directional guidance if they improperly mark a downed bird and can’t find it (more of an issue with dogs that are steady to wing and shot). The hunting shows you see don’t feature dogs like that, because they’re impossible to film - you see the loafer bird dogs that won’t venture further than 50 yards out.

We want the upland dogs to be pretty damned wild and wirey, as they have to be autonomous with a boatload of stamina. You don’t want a dog that relies on you to push them along, guide them, turn them, anything. They are to just RUN until they smell a bird.

This time of year, when you can’t get training birds without losing an arm and a leg, the dogs start going berserk - anything with wings has their 100% rapt attention. When we can get quail for training again, they will calm down. Until hunting season, then they’re nuts again.

Retrievers would likely be easier to contain, as they aren’t ever to be out finding things the handler hasn’t shot first. I don’t have personal experience with that, though.

And last I checked, sheep don’t fly away, leaving a dog with nothing. The dog knows that, especially an extremely intelligent dog like a collie.

Both very high-drive dogs. Completely different in how that manifests. I don’t think bird dogs are as smart as collies, honestly.

(Allllllll that said, I don’t know what type of dogs the person who was referencing their dogs go over fences has. I know our bird dogs have gone over/under the backyard fence (6’ chainlink with those plastic privacy slats) a few times, so I am speaking for that.)

Well, this is pretty much exactly the type of dog I would not want to see at a horse show.

And yes, I own high drive dogs.

[endlessclimb]

@vxf111

Not for nothing, but if you decide to own a dog who is a flipping WENDIGO that’s your choice and it’s going to require YOU to adjust YOUR lifestyle and not the whole world to bend to accommodate you.

These dogs aren’t the ones going to the show. They are housed in a completely different way, and are owned by my partner.

My dog is a chill but aloof shelter mutt.

Hunting, can not be trusted with fences, high drive doge:

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My tennis ball addicted, super snuggler, can’t consistently clear beginner novice height fences doge (I did teach her to find and retrieve shed antlers on our hikes though!):

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[endlessclimb]

@meupatdoes

Well, this is pretty much exactly the type of dog I would not want to see at a horse show.

And yes, I own high drive dogs.

Please see above.

Edit: Meh.

[meupatdoes]

@endlessclimb

That sit under your desk at work with you all day. So much drive they must have. :lol:

Well, they don’t see a whole lot of squirrels or cats walking past my desk, no.

[endlessclimb]

@meupatdoes

Well, they don’t see a whole lot of squirrels or cats walking past my desk, no.

Man you should hear my dog at the window when she sees bunnies or deer. A killer she is. Let her out the door though, what a chicken. Same with the mail man. The glass elicits a false confidence. :lol::lol: She’s a complete wimp.

When we go running, her hackles are up the whole time. Nice to keep people away, but little do they know if they just approach, she will try to run away as fast as she can. That’s my girl!

Another of my doge:

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[CaliforniaDreamer]

I’m so confused by endless climb. Partner has the fence-scaling, gotta-get-a-bird dogs. She owns can’t scale-fencing, tennis ball dog. But can’t leave tennis-ball dog anywhere, cause it scales fences. Why are we even talking about the fence-scaling gotta-get-a-bird dogs when they don’t appear to be the ones that you want to take to every show and it’s tennis-ball dog that must accompany you, but can’t be boarded anywhere. Is it just me, am I the only one shaking my head here??

[mmeqcenter]

@CaliforniaDreamer

I’m so confused by endless climb. Partner has the fence-scaling, gotta-get-a-bird dogs. She owns can’t scale-fencing, tennis ball dog. But can’t leave tennis-ball dog anywhere, cause it scales fences. Why are we even talking about the fence-scaling gotta-get-a-bird dogs when they don’t appear to be the ones that you want to take to every show and it’s tennis-ball dog that must accompany you, but can’t be boarded anywhere. Is it just me, am I the only one shaking my head here??

Color me confused too.

[endlessclimb]

Ok doge spam ready?

My pup very proud of all her antler/dead head finds:
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My pup at my mom’s house, thinking she’s dying because I put a glove (wool, that I put in the dryer, oops) on her foot:

[ATTACH=JSON]{“data-align”:“none”,“data-size”:“medium”,“data-attachmentid”:10429339}[/ATTACH]

[endlessclimb]

@CaliforniaDreamer

I’m so confused by endless climb. Partner has the fence-scaling, gotta-get-a-bird dogs. She owns can’t scale-fencing, tennis ball dog. But can’t leave tennis-ball dog anywhere, cause it scales fences. Why are we even talking about the fence-scaling gotta-get-a-bird dogs when they don’t appear to be the ones that you want to take to every show and it’s tennis-ball dog that must accompany you, but can’t be boarded anywhere. Is it just me, am I the only one shaking my head here??

Because people were saying that well behaved dogs should always respect fences. That’s not always the case.

I never said my dog scales fences. She pushed the gate open once, and then got scared because she couldn’t get back in. Tennis ball dog is a total wimp and would be emotionally crushed being boarded anywhere. She’s too timid. So if she can’t come, I don’t go. And that’s ok! But I am totally allowed to bitch about it, and hope that the rules don’t go that way. Which somehow became the point of this thread - whether or not the complaint is valid, because showing is a privilege etc etc.

There’s lots of animals at the house, and they all get different management. Because they’re different! At any rate. I’m in dog brag mode. More doge pictures incoming.

[endlessclimb]

High drive pups, begging for more birds to get put out, doing nice retrieves, hopefully going home tired:

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[Denali6298]

So the type of behavior you describe: fear, running with her hackles up when you take her for runs is not a well socialized or trained dog. I have a high drive “vicious dog breeds” mutt and he learned real quick that he needed to keep his fur down. He’s also not allowed to bark at random things. He was extremely fearful too. I personally would not be taking (and I didn’t) a dog like that to horse shows until better manners were established.

You are not setting your dog up for success by letting her show fear aggression.

[RainWeasley]

Wait…so…not trying to be rude or anything here, just trying to understand…but you have to take your dog to a show, and your partner’s dogs stay at home. So why can’t your dog stay at home with your partner’s dogs too?

[Denali6298]

@RainWeasley

Wait…so…not trying to be rude or anything here, just trying to understand…but you have to take your dog to a show, and your partner’s dogs stay at home. So why can’t your dog stay at home with your partner’s dogs too?

It boils down to her not wanting to leave the dog home.

[evilc123]

@Denali6298

It boils down to her not wanting to leave the dog home.

…to go to her $150 recognized events

[Denali6298]

@evilc123

…to go to her $150 recognized events

The price of the event really doesn’t matter. Some people can’t/don’t want to spend the money on the big recognized shows.

[evilc123]

@Denali6298

The price of the event really doesn’t matter. Some people can’t/don’t want to spend the money on the big recognized shows.

Oh I agree. I was just pointing out another odd inconsistency in her posts. He/She said $150 is his/her budget, but (as far as I’m aware) there aren’t any recognized events (where one would have to worry about the rules under discussion) that would accommodate a $150 budget.

[Denali6298]

@evilc123

Oh I agree. I was just pointing out another odd inconsistency in her posts. He/She said $150 is his/her budget, but (as far as I’m aware) there aren’t any recognized events (where one would have to worry about the rules under discussion) that would accommodate a $150 budget.

She said she goes to unrecognized events. Those same events could follow recognized rules or ban dogs.

[mmeqcenter]

@endlessclimb

Because people were saying that well behaved dogs should always respect fences. That’s not always the case.

I never said my dog scales fences. She pushed the gate open once, and then got scared because she couldn’t get back in. Tennis ball dog is a total wimp and would be emotionally crushed being boarded anywhere. She’s too timid. So if she can’t come, I don’t go. And that’s ok! But I am totally allowed to bitch about it, and hope that the rules don’t go that way. Which somehow became the point of this thread - whether or not the complaint is valid, because showing is a privilege etc etc.

There’s lots of animals at the house, and they all get different management. Because they’re different! At any rate. I’m in dog brag mode. More doge pictures incoming.

Yeah, that all really came out of left field.
You said you wouldn’t show if you couldn’t take your dog because the cost of boarding it for the entire weekend we be too high.
Myself and others suggested an in-home dog sitter or having it stay at a friend’s house for the weekend.
You said the dog requires specific fence heights, among other things, so those options simply weren’t possible.
But now all of a sudden the dog you actually take to shows actually has no such restrictions, those were in regards to your partner’s dogs. So, the discussion of fence height and training and bird dogs was pointless, as it was not actually applicable to the dog you take to shows.
Hence, confusion.

[endlessclimb]

@Denali6298

So the type of behavior you describe: fear, running with her hackles up when you take her for runs is not a well socialized or trained dog. I have a high drive “vicious dog breeds” mutt and he learned real quick that he needed to keep his fur down. He’s also not allowed to bark at random things. He was extremely fearful too. I personally would not be taking (and I didn’t) a dog like that to horse shows until better manners were established.

You are not setting your dog up for success by letting her show fear aggression.

I got her as a semi adult from the shelter and gave everything I had to getting her socialized - classes, having strangers feed her treats, even dog parks (I despise dog parks…). Shes just timid. She does not like strangers for the first 20 minutes or so, then is ok. Shes also a wimp emotionally. If I so much as raise my energy in any way, shes cowering on the floor. I dont think you can fix every problem with an animal, especially when fear based, particularly when I cant control other people and how they will try to interact with her.

so, in short, I tried. When we are at shows, she stays at the trailer. Never goes in the barn area, because she doesn’t like strangers. Not fair to her, or to people who dont know shes not totally friendly (but not aggressive, just retreats).

Going full circle to - a properly managed dog is not a problem at horse shows.

[endlessclimb]

@mmeqcenter

Yeah, that all really came out of left field.
You said you wouldn’t show if you couldn’t take your dog because the cost of boarding it for the entire weekend we be too high.
Myself and others suggested an in-home dog sitter or having it stay at a friend’s house for the weekend.
You said the dog requires specific fence heights, among other things, so those options simply weren’t possible.
But now all of a sudden the dog you actually take to shows actually has no such restrictions, those were in regards to your partner’s dogs. So, the discussion of fence height and training and bird dogs was pointless, as it was not actually applicable to the dog you take to shows.
Hence, confusion.

I never said my dog requires certain fence heights, that was someone else. Then someone else said a well trained dog shouldn’t push fence boundaries. Then I responded that training isnt relevant to that.

I agree, this thread is really confusing.

what are we talking about again?

let’s just post more pictures of dogs.