Dog Park Rant...

[wendy]

what does the “intactness” of the male dog have to do with anything? I know lots of people with intact male (and female) dogs who are wonderfully well-behaved- most of the performance/show crowd who train and socialize their dogs don’t neuter. Course most of them would never take their dogs to a dog park either.

I’d be careful with the “social hour” at a doggie day care center too- the ones I’ve gone to watch were even worse than the dog park, with about ten dogs per supervising person (at least at the dog park there is one owner per dog, more or less), and their “temperament tests” were kind of a joke.

If you go watch dog parks or dog day care social hour it doesn’t look like most of the dogs have any fun. They kind of wander around looking vaguely stressed, or stand near their owner.

Your best bet is to find some “dog friends” you know are ok with your dog and arrange “play dates” somewhere. Maybe meet people through an obedience class or walking in your neighborhood.

[MtyMax]

[QUOTE=chancellor2;6317189]
I won’t take my dogs to a dog park either. And quite honestly, if I had heard the comment that the owner of the intact dog stated, I would have gotten up and left.
I own a pit bull. She is WELL socialized. But if a fight broke out and she was clear across the park from that fight, you can be sure she would be blamed because she is a pit bull.
I try to never put my dog into situations where she can get hurt or blamed. there are too many idiot dog owners out there.

If I had a nickel for every time I saw an intact dog have an idiot owner (breed not important), I’d be rich. Who takes an intact dog to a dog park? UGH! Stupid STUPID people.[/QUOTE]

And this is exactly why my Pitbull stays at home or only hangs out with dogs/people that I know. Too many idiots and I don’t want us to be blamed.

[SarahandSam]

Superminion, another possibility is breed meet-ups, if your dog is at least mostly aligned with a certain breed… we have local dachshund meet-ups here that I bring mine to. Some are just dachshund play dates and others are more organized events (like when we march in parades and such). You can look around online to see if there are any particular groups that do more organized meet-ups. (:

I’d call the cops on the woman who is being negligent with her dog, personally…

[Jaideux]

OP, that sounds absolutely traumatizing for everyone and everypup involved.

I take my dog to the dog park, but we only go in if it is empty or there is one or two dogs smaller than her.

We made the STUPID STUPID STUPID mistake once of taking her at a peak time of day (like, a Sunday afternoon when the sun was shining and the weather was mild). The first clue should have been the dog growling at ours though the fence. The second clue should have been the wall of dog bodies that met us at the interior gate.

5 minutes later the final straw was when she snapped at a dog that wouldn’t leave her alone. I was not willing to have my dog be the one that started stuff at the park (nor did I want her ending anything or being ended!!!), so I called her to me (she came almost immediately) and as I was walking her out of the park, trying to find that awful balance of not making her feel “trapped” on a leash and heightening her anxiety, but also getting her out of there, we were MOBBED by dogs.

One even tried to mount her.

And not a single owner, not even the ones close by, called their dogs off us. Now, the dogs were all being super friendly (except the mounting one, that my boyfriend literally had to kick off of our girl).

It was terrifying and could have changed at any second. And we’ve never gone back. And we took a HUGE back step in her socialization training.

[Hannahsmom]

thank you Wendy…whether a dog is intact or spay/neutered is not the issue. Dog parks are all about a bunch of dogs that don’t know each other meeting in a tight space. Not a good thing

[Marshfield]

I used to go to one with my first corgi when I lived in Columbus for vet school. Good group, never any issues. Now, you couldn’t pay me enough to go to one. Just walking in the city park when I’m at work is enough stress. I feel as though I’m constantly on guard to protect Gale from idiots who want to let their big unruly dogs pounce on her. No–she does NOT want to say hello (as she’s stuck to my side in heel position)

[chancellor2]

[QUOTE=Hannahsmom;6318149]
thank you Wendy…whether a dog is intact or spay/neutered is not the issue. Dog parks are all about a bunch of dogs that don’t know each other meeting in a tight space. Not a good thing[/QUOTE]

Actually, in a recent study (which I may need to keep at my fingertips), it was found that the majority of dog bites came from intact dogs. So, yes it IS an issue.

[Hannahsmom]

I have an intact dog. He would NEVER initiate an issue. But I refuse to take him to something as stupid as a dog park. Read the books. A dog park of a bunch of dogs that are not part of a family pack are the problem. My dog is a breed champion and has multiple titles on him. I would never risk him in such a situation.

[threedogpack]

Dog park?

never. not ever. not even once.

Again, I thank doG that where I live I have thousands of acres of gameland at my disposal. The only dogs I’ve ever met there are ones I arranged to do so. I am far more likely to see deer or a beaver or hear some other critter crashing through the brush to get away from us.

I’m supporting Wendy with the intact issue also. It isn’t about hormones, but anxiety and arousal.

[FrenchFrytheEqHorse]

I think the most important thing when you let your dog freely interact with other dogs is to KNOW THE OTHER OWNERS. Meet the other people FIRST. Make sure you are all on the same page, and discuss the other dogs’ temperaments. There is literally nothing worse than letting your dog loose into a pack of playful, rambunctious dogs where, despite all the training in the world, anything can happen, and someone freaks out and can’t understand how “your dog is so terrible/awful/mean/vicious/etc”. Dogs are pretty good at self regulating (for the most part, obviously there are exceptions). Owners are oftentimes not.

Having a dog “with friends” is a great way to meet people. But meet THEM first. Then find a controlled, private environment to let them play. My dog has been bumped and bruised wrestling with her BFF (a young St. Bernard), and once needed a 2 week “rest” after a particularly hard body roll. But that’s part of the risk of letting her rip and tear around, tongue hanging out the side of her face, running laps around the room, rolling all over the place. She loves it. After they’re done, they snuggle in a pile on the couch and the Berner’s owner and I enjoy a glass of wine.

[sketcher]

[QUOTE=threedogpack;6318243]

I’m supporting Wendy with the intact issue also. It isn’t about hormones, but anxiety and arousal.[/QUOTE]

Some excerpts from this website:
http://www.americanhumane.org/animals/stop-animal-abuse/fact-sheets/dog-bites.html

“Approximately 92% of fatal dog attacks involved male dogs, 94% of which were not neutered.”

“What can you do?
Spay or neuter your dog.
Neutering reduces aggression, especially in males. Un-neutered dogs are more than 2.6 times more likely to bite than neutered dogs.3 Female dogs in heat and nursing moms are much more dangerous than spayed females, and their behavior can be unpredictable.”

[threedogpack]

[QUOTE=sketcher;6318281]
Some excerpts from this website:
http://www.americanhumane.org/animals/stop-animal-abuse/fact-sheets/dog-bites.html

“Approximately 92% of fatal dog attacks involved male dogs, 94% of which were not neutered.”

“What can you do?
Spay or neuter your dog.
Neutering reduces aggression, especially in males. Un-neutered dogs are more than 2.6 times more likely to bite than neutered dogs.3 Female dogs in heat and nursing moms are much more dangerous than spayed females, and their behavior can be unpredictable.” [/QUOTE]

that was for kids/dogs. A dog park is dogs/dogs. And I’m not saying that it is NEVER an issue, but I’m saying that in a dog park, it’s over arousal and anxiety.

[Big_Grey_hunter]

[QUOTE=chancellor2;6318169]
Actually, in a recent study (which I may need to keep at my fingertips), it was found that the majority of dog bites came from intact dogs. So, yes it IS an issue.[/QUOTE]

On the other hand, the majority of intact dogs are owned by idiots, bred from other dogs owned by idiots. In general, the same type of owner who doesn’t neuter their poorly bred dog is the same type who doesn’t train or take responsibility for their dog. Not too mention, those types of dog owners don’t exactly choose well bred dogs chosen for their temperaments. Those factors probably contribute to the increased bites in intact dogs, not the fact they are or are no intact.

Of course, there are the responsible owners with intact show dogs, but I’d being willing to bet that those are a very small portion of intact dogs.

[threedogpack]

[QUOTE=Big_Grey_hunter;6318547]
In general, the same type of owner who doesn’t neuter their poorly bred dog is the same type who doesn’t train or take responsibility for their dog. [/QUOTE]

this is probably the biggest factor.

the OP even stated that the mom wasn’t doing anything about her over aroused dog.

[Bicoastal]

Yahoo Groups and Meet Up Groups

OP- if you still want to meet people and let pup play with strangers, try Yahoo Groups and Meet Up Groups for doggie play dates, swimming, hiking, etc.

I hope somebody helped puppy’s owner get contact info from pit’s owner and agreement to pay for vet expenses.:mad:

Another option is neighborhood playdates with folks you see walking their dogs.

A different option, if your sched allows, if you must attend a dog park despite the risks you witnessed is to only attend at off hours like the middle of a work day. I would never ever go in the middle of a beautiful weekend. That’s when non-regulars like the the mom with pit show up without knowing rules or etiquette with a dog unaccustomed to the chaos.

As you can see, the vast majority of COTH-type owners, the kind you want to be around :winkgrin:, don’t attend. Generally, parks are the lazy man’s way of exhausting Fido so Mr. Lazy can ignore pup for the rest of the weekend.

[witherbee]

The dog park I sometimes go to does screen somewhat. No intact males dogs are allowed, and you must bring your current rabies and vaccine records for each dog. My 3 larger dogs (corgi, chessie and hound/lab mix) love it and do well there. I go because they have 2 man-made ponds there and my dogs love to swim and play. The only reason I rarely go now is that I would NEVER take my chihuahua there - just can never tell when a larger dog might get their prey drive going and snap him up. They do have a fenced in small dog section, but then I could not bring my other dogs in and there is no reason to go in there as it is just a small grassy area (we live on a 10 acre farm, so he gets plenty of excercise and we go to Petsmart every Saturday for supplies so he gets to socialize there).

The dog park I go to is well run, but I do agree that it can be risky. If I had a breed with a reputation, I definitely would not go to one.

[GraceLikeRain]

I am debating even getting into this because I am clearly out numbered but I am a knowledgable, active, and involved owner who regularly frequents the dog park with her intact show dog. I go to the dog park 3-5 nights a week on top of going to the barn, hiking, etc. As a result I have a well-rounded dog that I can take anywhere.

Individuals like the ones who have posted on this thread inadvertently create the most chaos at dog parks.

At my park we have regulars who are crabby. Anyone who goes to the park on a regular basis knows the big pit at the gate does gate guard but is harmless besides a lot of noise, that the collie cross will snap at dogs who get in her space, and that the pack of intact male dogs are part of the guide dog program.

The dogs owned by the regulars never have problems. Our dogs wrestle, chase, and yes, occasionally snap or hump. We know our dogs and we trust the other regulars to address problems if they occur.

The problems that usually occurs is when a woman walks up clutching her leash and on the other end is a wound-up bouncing dog. The dog flies into the dog park and gets corrected by the gate guarder, snapped at by the collie, and then dominance humped by an adolescent dog. Before you know it the owner is panicked, yelling, and dragging her poor dog out of the park before her dog is “emotionally damaged.”

If that woman took a deep breath and let go, she would have realized that once her dog got corrected he wasn’t “traumatized”, he just realized what behavior was not acceptable. If she came back a few times her dog would learn to dodge the gate guarder, avoid the nippy collie, and play with the adolescent who is testing boundaries. Chances are that her dog would have a blast at the park and would learn a lot about interacting with other dogs.

My guy started going to the park at 16 weeks old. He was 8 lbs and there were plenty of times when he got body rolled by a lab, stepped on by a Shepard, snapped at by a greyhound, humped by a poodle, etc. There were times when he hung out with people instead of dogs because he wasn’t sure how to interact with the other dogs. At 8 months he is a confident, out-going dog who knows how to correctly initiate contact with other dogs.

I firmly believe that success at the dog park has nothing to do with breed, size, whether or not a dog is intact, etc.

Success rests in the hands of the owner and his or her understanding of dog behavior. If you are an owner who is going to panic because a dog humps your dog, please do not come to my park. At our park we are constantly alert but we don’t feel a need to intervene every two seconds. Dogs will be dogs and they resolve things much better than we do when we start physically interfering. Dog parks are a wonderful resource if you know how to properly use one.

[jsjumper]

[QUOTE=GraceLikeRain;6319041]
I am debating even getting into this because I am clearly out numbered but I am a knowledgable, active, and involved owner who regularly frequents the dog park with her intact show dog. I go to the dog park 3-5 nights a week on top of going to the barn, hiking, etc. As a result I have a well-rounded dog that I can take anywhere.

Individuals like the ones who have posted on this thread inadvertently create the most chaos at dog parks.

At my park we have regulars who are crabby. Anyone who goes to the park on a regular basis knows the big pit at the gate does gate guard but is harmless besides a lot of noise, that the collie cross will snap at dogs who get in her space, and that the pack of intact male dogs are part of the guide dog program.

The dogs owned by the regulars never have problems. Our dogs wrestle, chase, and yes, occasionally snap or hump. We know our dogs and we trust the other regulars to address problems if they occur.

The problems that usually occurs is when a woman walks up clutching her leash and on the other end is a wound-up bouncing dog. The dog flies into the dog park and gets corrected by the gate guarder, snapped at by the collie, and then dominance humped by an adolescent dog. Before you know it the owner is panicked, yelling, and dragging her poor dog out of the park before her dog is “emotionally damaged.”

If that woman took a deep breath and let go, she would have realized that once her dog got corrected he wasn’t “traumatized”, he just realized what behavior was not acceptable. If she came back a few times her dog would learn to dodge the gate guarder, avoid the nippy collie, and play with the adolescent who is testing boundaries. Chances are that her dog would have a blast at the park and would learn a lot about interacting with other dogs.

My guy started going to the park at 16 weeks old. He was 8 lbs and there were plenty of times when he got body rolled by a lab, stepped on by a Shepard, snapped at by a greyhound, humped by a poodle, etc. There were times when he hung out with people instead of dogs because he wasn’t sure how to interact with the other dogs. At 8 months he is a confident, out-going dog who knows how to correctly initiate contact with other dogs.

I firmly believe that success at the dog park has nothing to do with breed, size, whether or not a dog is intact, etc.

Success rests in the hands of the owner and his or her understanding of dog behavior. If you are an owner who is going to panic because a dog humps your dog, please do not come to my park. At our park we are constantly alert but we don’t feel a need to intervene every two seconds. Dogs will be dogs and they resolve things much better than we do when we start physically interfering. Dog parks are a wonderful resource if you know how to properly use one.[/QUOTE]

I couldn’t agree more.

[threedogpack]

@GraceLikeRain;6319041

As a result I have a well-rounded dog that I can take anywhere.

unless I misunderstood you, you are saying that the dog park made your dog well rounded and well socialized?

Individuals like the ones who have posted on this thread inadvertently create the most chaos at dog parks.

ummmm, a broken leg and bleeding puppy are a teensy bit more than simple chaos.

At my park we have regulars who are crabby.

which is different than aggressive. The gate guarder isn’t drawing blood when you come in.

The dogs owned by the regulars never have problems. Our dogs wrestle, chase, and yes, occasionally snap or hump. We know our dogs and we trust the other regulars to address problems if they occur.

this is something different from a pile up or a big dog causing serious injury to a puppy. What you describe is probably rough, but normal dog behavior.

Dogs will be dogs and they resolve things much better than we do when we start physically interfering. Dog parks are a wonderful resource if you know how to properly use one.

it wasn’t resolved in a better way for the puppy.

Dog play groups, with dogs who are stable and don’t get over aroused are a great thing. Generally speaking tho, these are groups where all the dogs have come to know each other well, and have had frequent, contact to learn about each other. The problem with dog parks, is that in most of them you have no control over who brings their dog and that is what makes it so risky

[sisu27]

[QUOTE=Superminion;6317043]

SMH. I HATE it when people ruin things for everybody else. I mean really?! Who brings their intact pit to a dog park, knowing that they aren’t great with other dogs?! [/QUOTE]

The same sort of person that brings their child/children to a DOG PARK.

At certain times I have used my local dog park for my Doberman (NEVER my Terrier). I am astounded at the number of idiots you will find there on any given day.

The intact problem dog is almost always owned by a meat-head who should not own a dog and relishes in the dog behaving like a jerk. The moron with the mini dog that should not be there that thinks it should walk in and keep said mini dog on a leash is one of my favorites as well. Once the mini dog becomes the centre of attention they always then pick it up and freak out when all the normal sized dogs are jumping up on them etc I like the family I saw once that came with their McDonalds picnic lunch and unruly dog. They thought it would be a great idea to let the unruly dog run around while they sat on their blanket and ate their lunch. That worked well.

I’m sorry for the pup that got injured and I am sorry you had a bad day at the dog park but by bringing your child I don’t feel you are being responsible either. Just because your dog is fine with your child why on earth would you trust the average dog owner at a dog park to instill the same skills in their dog?