Would you feel compelled to reimburse another member for vet bills if your dog was involved in what you originally thought was a 5 second scuffle resulting in a puncture wound but turned out to have actually been a collision between the 2 dogs?
Do you have more details? How does a puncture turn into a collision? What was the injury to your or the other dog? Was either dog being aggressive? Is there a history of aggression from either dog?
I would assume that if you bring your dog to a dog park you are assuming some liability if they get hurt. I wouldnāt think someone else should have to pay because of an accident. Dogs get hurt sometimes.
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What are the rules at the park?
All the dog parks I go to have rules that state owners should constantly monitor their dogs, so I donāt believe the dog park should be a free for all, āthunderdomeā type experience with oblivious owners texting away, or napping on a bench.
If the collision was a total accidental, no. But some dogs will body slam, or clip at high speed, another dog deliberately. I think an owner bears some responsibility for injuries cause by that. I have seen dogs clip people and knock them off their feet. People have had bones broken at the dog park.
It is the ownerās responsibility to pay attention and interrupt or redirect play before an accident or fight happens. Owners must honestly access their dogās play style and be aware if play is escalating or intensifying.
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The dogs go there to play and interact with one another. Accidents happen and theyāre just that accidents. Too bad some try and blame others for "accidents. I think itās time for people to take responsibility for their own actions e.g. attending the dog park in the first place. Iāve had many dogs over the years without any being injured or injuring another dog.
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I always go to the dog park with the motto āenter at your own riskā. No matter how hard I try I canāt get other people to be conscientious owners, go figure. So I pick my parks and attendance times to minimize the risks of encountering ill mannered, ill trained dogs and dog owners. As such I do not have the expectation that others would pay for vet expenses except in the most egregious circumstances, where it would be the ārightā thing to do but is apparently not legally required around here.
Mine have had a few dog incurred injuries, but only one was inflicted by a dog that I personally would not have considered a dog park candidate if I were the owner. However, the dog was a regular and was not causing problems for other dogs. So perhaps my dog was slightly to blame for the altercation too. Otherwise all injuries have been in the course of normal play and could just have easily happened here at home between my own dogs. Never received nor expected compensation.
I have seen injuries that I personally would have felt obliged to pay should I have owned the offender. Weāve had dogs killed, one nearly decapitated, one nearly drowned, people bitten all in interactions that were clearly intentional and by dogs with long lists of offenses against other dogs.
The law here, however, clearly does not support my morality. In the case of the near decapitation and one death the owners took the offending dog owner to court to try to recoup costs and lost. Both owners were told entering an off leash dog park meant they understood the risks involved and therefore no liability rested with the other owner.
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I was trying to avoid a novel butā¦ Dog park is āpaid membership onlyā not county or state run, about 4 acres & has been open 16 months. I have 2 dogs, Deziel - 5yr old rat terrier mix 46 lbs loves everyone and everything, Wilbur-19 month old Staffy/Boxer-Lab/Beagle 78lbs, both male & neutered. I always plan to meet other owners I have met and know our dogs play well together. We keep our dogs moving and do not congregate near gate or water. Wilbur was targeted by a chow mix the first 5-6 times we were there when about 5 months old.No blood just scared him. To this day he will go out of his way to avoid him. Several months later a smallish dog, known to hit the park at full speed, once again got several dogs involved in the chase including mine. When that dog stopped his run heād get snarky. This day it resulted in a scuffle of 5-6 dogs including Wilbur. Screaming owners trying to tackle and reach in the melee exacerbated the issue. One even yelled at me for not getting my dog. I stayed calm, grabbed a bowl of water and tossed it on the dogs. They stopped. Wilbur was covered in poop from someone hitting him with a bag of it and was the only one injured, 4 bites to the face and a slice on the chin. To this day owner of the small dogs blames my dog and continues to stir the pot. Heās a big dog and plays hard. I keep him in check. About a month ago Wilbur was playing and wrestling with 3 other dogs he knows well, not just at the park we all go to the beach, hiking etc. together. A much smaller dog bounced into their group twice, caught us all off guard. Wilbur rolled him to the ground each time. He did not injure that dog and has not hurt any dog. We get a warning from the board. I keep a tight rein on Wilbur, donāt let him far from me and keep an eye on the gate because he was starting to get defensive when dogs he didnāt know would run up to him. He was doing very well. Two weeks ago we were at the far corner of the park. I see a 3 legged dog come through the gate running full speed towards us. Wilbur is next to me, Deziel is further behind us. Iām focused on Wilbur and hear a bark/yelp/growl all of 5 seconds and see Deziel and the 3 legged dog kind of roll and get up maybe 8-10 feet from us. Of course Wilbur and the other dog we were with ran to them but it was over, they did not get involved. Owner of 3 legged dog is screaming "What the hell was that??"Plus she has a cast on her leg!!! We walked all 4 dogs back towards her. She points at Deziel āWhatās that dogs name???Does he have his shots??Iām taking my dog to the vet right now! He only has 3 legs if he gets hurt thatās the end for himā. I gave her my info, her dog ran off playing with 2 other dogs. She gets him and leaves.This was around 3 in the afternoon. That evening I receive a forwarded email from the board with her complaint that her dog was bitten and had a puncture wound by a dog named Wilbur!!! I responded to both, explained exactly what happened and made sure they knew it was Deziel not Wilbur and if her dog was bitten to forward her invoice from her vet and I would reimburse her for expenses relating to a puncture wound. Turns out she didnāt even take the dog to the vet until the next evening. I found out a few days later by 2 other owners at the park that the dogs had actually collided, Deziel was catching up to us while her dog was running towards us. Then I get a letter in the mail from the board that we are no longer allowed at the park. There are several dogs who have injured other dogs and are truly unpredictable. Everyone loves Deziel and he is as kind as they come. It just doesnāt make sense. A group of owners have even started a petition! The owner of the 3 legged dog has updated me on his progress, our correspondence has been cordial. I have not mentioned reimbursement again. Today she emailed me wanting to know my address to send me the vet bills. My thoughts are Whether we go back to the park or not will it be setting a precedence if I reimburse her for what was truly an accident? If it was a matter of a fight or aggression I would have no problem paying the vet bill. The other kicker is I supplied the park with more than adequate supplies to assemble a substantial first aid kit for dogs and have never seen it.
I avoid dog parks for this very reason. Way too unpredictable, even with normally friendly dogs.
With it being a paid membership, is there a contract that is signed? If so, what does the contract say about injuries / liability?
I occasionally go to a public dog park at times where there are only one or two other dogs, and have the mentality that if my dog STARTS a fight with another dog (Iād like to say it would never happen but, you never know), then I would offer to pay for any vet bills. If my dog is involved in a fight and there is no way to clearly identify who started it, I believe each owner should be on their own. If a dog is injured due to a collision, as you described, then I would not reimburse for those vet bills. That is part of the inherent risk, IMO, of taking your dog to play with others.
I guess in this case, since you did initially offer to pay the vet bills, itās a matter of how much effort you want to put into defending your choice not to. I donāt think you should pay them, personally. However, you did offer at the time of the incident and when the board contacted you. If she takes you to court, are you still willing to fight it? Are the people who witnessed the event willing to testify? Do her vet records show a puncture wound was treated or will they indicate a collision like accident as well?
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If you offered to pay the vet bills, you offered to pay the vet bills.
Reneging when you actually get the bill makes you look like a tool.
I donāt see where the missing first aid kit has anything to do with this situation.
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I didnāt see what happened, just the aftermath. I was over in a second. Two people who know me and my dogs saw it happen and told me they had a collision and reached out to me when they found out Wilbur was initially blamed. I have since been informed that he was blamed for a few other āissuesā that occurred when we were not even there! Thankfully they set the record straight. We only go once or twice a week. There are some who go more than once a day! Many members are snotty rich retired women who have nothing better to do that take their designer dogs to the park to play but then freak out when the dogs act like dogs. Over the past few months itās become a tit for tat environment with a double standard where rules are concerned. There is a Corgi whoās injured 3 dogs that I know of, one needing 11 stitches. The owner is in the" clique", they still come to the park. The owner of the dog that started the issue where Wilbur was injured watches him like a hawk and tells others to watch out for him. Sheās the one keeping the pot stirred. If she sees a black dog get rough his name comes up.
I have asked where the puncture was located and never got an answer. For all I know the dog rolled on a stick. There are a lot of trees in the park. I always had the mindset that I entered on my own risk. I would never bring a three legged dog to a dog park specially if I had a cast on my leg and could not keep up with him. Even if we are āinvitedā back I doubt we will go. There are too many inexperienced dog owners who donāt know how to react when issues arise. I now know why vets roll their eyes when you tell them you go to a dog park. Iāve heard horror stories but some of the things Iāve heard on here are really scary. Think weāre just stick to the beach. The only thing we would miss is the agility course. He loves that and will just go in and do everything on his own.
Thanks for all of the input I may just ask for an itemized invoice and pay part.
Hmmm
Just one puncture? From a dog bite? Accident was a collision then it appears the dog ran into one canine tooth. Why ādesigner dogsā are any different/better than any other canine is bogus. A dog is a dog. Ask the snobs if they agree their dogs should wear body armour to prevent injury in the off-leash parks.
You offered to pay so unfortunately you are stuck with that part although the reported injury seems pretty shady. Definitely do not pay until you see the vet receipts for what treatment was actually given.
After you write more about your experiences there, personally I would ask for my remaining membership fee never go back. You sure have had a lot of close calls with other peopleās dogs (not saying it is your fault, but the behavior of the other owners is not going to change), and you should count your lucky stars nothing more serious has happened. I mean, if she was so worried about her 3 legged dog, why did she turn it loose at the gate and let it bolt off?!!? The board seems fine with blaming your dogs but not dealing with other memberās behavior.
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The whole thing sounds like a nightmare where far too many incidents are occurring. Why have you kept going back? Why do you want to go back?!
Big dogs that āplay hardā do not need to be in that environment where they get wound up, but it sounds like way too many people with way too many uncontrolled dogsā¦I would pay the bill since you offered to originally and then resign your membership.
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You offered to pay the bill, so foot it.
As for your dog-park woesā¦ Not to be crass or mean, but it does sound like you have acquired a reputation or a history with the park - either through fault of your dogs, or not. Once you develop a reputation it is not something you can erase, regardless if it is deserved or not. I do not go to dog parks with my dogs for many reasons and almost all of them could be outlined in your post: no one thinks their dogs are capable of mauling or hurting other dogs, no one has trained dogs or dogs that respond to recall or even dogs that are actually friendly with other dogs, and everyone always puts the blame on any dog with a bully phenotype even when the dog was not the aggressor/perpetrator. There are truly so few dogs that play well with others and it sounds like you keep going back despite many, many red flags with your dogs and other dogsā¦
A better way to spend time in a more controlled environment with your dogs is to take them hikingā¦ but a word of advice as a hiker, please do not let your dogs run off leash. Nothing bothers me more being alone on a trail than having a 70lb strange dog suddenly fly up to me and body-bump or jump on me. Itās very unsettling and annoying.
Hiking is a lot more controlled I think, itās safer for the most part, and it also gets much more energy out of the dog when you do it right. My dogs loved going out hiking with me.
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Ehhhā¦
Yes, you offered to pay. It probably wonāt be terribly expensive but I would require a full report from the vet before paying.
To be honest, I never let my dogs wrestle with other dogs - for this very reason. In your backyard with people you know - maybe. Anywhere else? No.
Chasing and wrestling are not always playing, even if dogs seem to enjoy it, and doing it in public encourages other dogs to jump in. Itās hard to say whether anyone was at fault, unless you are an owner that doesnāt permit/encourage this kind of play. Once you allow it, you sort of have to expect the consequences sometimes.
If you are invited back, I might use the dog park to exercise my dog, but not to play chase & wrestle with other dogs in the future.
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Sounds like thunderdome to me. OP should pay the vet bill and chalk it up to lesson learnedādog parks are a HORRIBLE idea.
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Now that I live in a townhouse with a tiny backyard, every once in a while I think about taking the dogs to a dog park. Thank you OP for reminding me why itās not a good idea.
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Dog parks arenāt a horrible idea. Itās nice to have an enclosed place to exercise dogs; not everyone has a dog that can be truly reliable off lead and/or a safe enough place to let it run.
That said - my personal experience with dog parks are people standing around chatting while not really noticing what their dogs are doing. And especially not trying to direct their exercise in any productive way. Letting dogs run in a pack will nearly always result in a scuffle at some point. Why would anyone be surprised when it happens and dogs get injured?
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Growing up we always had lots of private property and our family dogs socialized with the neighbours dogs, other hunting dogs, at field trials, etc.
When I got my first dog I was living in Edmonton. Virtually every park there is an off leash dog park, none are fenced, and I loved it. It meant that 99% of the owners were attentive, the dogs had good recalls, and we never had an issue.
Fast forward to when I moved back to Ontario. I realized why so many cothers hate dog parks. Itās a fenced in free for all. Needless to say we went a couple times, nothing bad happened, but I left shaking my head so we no longer go.
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Yah butāit doesnāt much matter if owners are attentive or not. Dogs pack up and two dogs get into it and everyone else jumps in. Itās instinctive and no amount of owner yelling is going to stop it.
And the whole ādogs need to runā thing. No, dogs need structured exercise and a clear hierarchy. They do not need (or benefit from) a constant, rotating introduction of strange dogs in an uncontrolled environment. This is stressful and incredibly risky. Just read all of the stories on this threadādogs nearly decapitated? Like what the actual fruitbat?? Who the hell would take that kind of risk with an animal they love?? Might go for a fun run in the park/might nearly have itās head ripped offāflip the coin, yay lets go. You got to be kidding me.
Everyone can do what they want with their own dog, itās a free country. But you couldnāt PAY me to take my dogs to a dog park. I care too much about them to throw them into the gladiator ring.
I pay for my dog to have structured exercise off leash, at a training facility, usually twice a week. I also have a yard and a companion for him to play with at home. As I get older, and see/hear about more and more horrible things, I am considerably more careful then I used to be. You have a bad experience, you change the way you do things. You have to. Otherwise you are just inviting trouble. Maybe OP just got her warning shot across the bow. What she decides to do with it is up to her.
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GT
I remember when it was the same in Toronto too. Dogs off-leash in and out parks. Donāt recall a lot of problems either.
then a change in culture as the city grew. Now nothingās the same. Dogs became horrible things and should be leashed, muzzled and unwelcome almost everywhere including public transit.
Oh well, progress I guess.
