For protection, you are better off looking at that guy on the web who has a series of “self-defense from horseback” videos. I have never seen them, but have heard good things about them. (can’t remember his name right now).[/QUOTE]
Is this the guy you were thinking of, joe? http://www.horsethink.com/
Saw him last year (I think) at a Horse Expo - didn’t get to see his whole presentation, but what I saw was pretty good.
And scrtwh - best of luck with your new puppy - even if you don’t end up doing trail rides with him/her!
A dog didn’t keep Meredith Emerson safe while she was hiking in Georgia.
A couple of points:
The type of dog that has ANY chance at protecting their owner from a person with evil intentions is NOT the kind of dog that the average person can or should attempt to handle off-leash in public. Think about it–how often do you see a police K9 off leash in public? And K9 officers are specifically trained to handle patrol dogs, the dogs themselves are HIGHLY trained, and the partners spend just about all of their time together, 24/7.
A dog can not protect their owner from someone with a gun.
And quite honestly, I know that if I were out trail riding with my dogs and I encountered someone that I was the least bit suspicious of, my FIRST instinct would be to protect my DOGS! Stupid? Yes. But the simple fact is that to many of us, our dogs are our “children”. Unless you’re willing to view your dog as merely a weapon that is disposable, a dog probably is not your best protection in the woods. And if you have taken time to train a dog to the extent that is necessary for it to be your protection AND be trustworthy off leash in public, do you really think that you could view the dog as disposable?
Awareness, common sense, following your gut instinct, and being prepared is a far better defense against bad people than a dog.
I think any dog that knows basic discipline would make a great trail companion. I taught my lab to run with me (sans horse) off leash. We graduated to the point I could run via highway and he always stayed a respectable distance (not too close not too far). The last couple years I have taken him on many trail rides and he’s always the correct distance. Funny thing, we stopped at a river to let the horses have a drink and the current swept my dog right underneath my horse. My horse was so accustom to the dog, she didn’t even care. When we were riding alone, I believe my horse appreciated my dogs company. One huge downfall: I couldn’t keep my dog at home. He was so used to going running and trailriding, it was second nature to wander.
Well. That’s about the rudest thing I’ve ever heard of!
If the man and his dog weren’t threatening you, what harm would it have done to take a few minutes to just walk past the man and his dog?
Hikers, hikers with dogs, horseback riders, mountain bike riders, and ATV riders ALL need to play nice together, or we all risk losing the ability to enjoy public land. Unless you have enforcement authority in this park, a simple “Oh, you must be lost…this is the horses-only trail” would have been ALL that was necessary to say–IF THAT.
(I am curious as to where this state park is that has horse-only trails. I don’t know that I’ve ever seen horse-only trails where I’ve been–most of the trails are multi-use. I’ve seen “hikers-only” trails in state and national parks, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen “horses-only” trails…your state must have a very powerful equestrian lobbying group!)
Anyway, in the various state and national parks and private land that I’ve ridden over, we’ve encountered numerous hikers and bikers–some with dogs on leash, some with dogs off leash, some with children off leash :), some with both dogs and children on or off leash, people on bikes, people on ATVs, and some people with REALLY SCARY BACKPACKS (at least Zorro thought so…until he realized that backpacks usually contain FOOD!). I have had some very enjoyable, friendly conversations with so many of the people that I’ve encountered. Every single time I’ve encountered someone with a dog off leash, they have very quickly (and with a guilty demeanor) gotten their dog in hand, in spite of my telling them that it’s OK, my horse is used to dogs. Many of the dogs we’ve encountered have never seen horses before and bark repeatedly, and in those instances, I usually ask the owner if they want me to just stand there to let their dog realize that the horse isn’t going to hurt them.
Most dog people that you’ll encounter in a park aren’t that different from us–we all love our animals, and enjoy a day outside with them. We have more in common than not. And EVERY single opportunity that we as horsepeople have to befriend other users of public lands is a chance to build a positive public image of horsepeople.
And quite frankly, I expect my horses to just DEAL with other animals (dogs, rabbits, deer, whatever) jumping out of the brush if I’m going to be trail riding them! Who enforces the leash laws on deer in the parks? They’re a hazard! Someone needs to get them under control! They might scare my horse!
In fact, just today, I spent my lunch hour riding my almost 4 year old gelding (who has had about 30 days under saddle). After working in the ring and over a few trail obstacles, I took him into one of our paddocks to ride. This paddock adjoins my sister’s property, and she has two young blue heelers, who promptly came running up to the fence, through the rustly leaves, and out of the woods barking as soon as they realized we were out there. The gelding was momentarily startled, but did a quick, momentary one-rein stop, and then continued working. The dogs barked, my young niece came out of the house yelling at the dogs, who then turned around and headed back to the house. My mother was in the paddock with me, watching the whole thing, and I just turned to her and said, “That’s OK! He (the horse) is going to have to deal with all sorts of things like that if he’s going to go trail riding!”
Blaming other people for our own inability to control and stay on our horses is useless. If we are going to venture out of the ring and into the big, bad world, we have to expect the unexpected.
Does that mean that people shouldn’t follow park rules? No, of course not! Does their inattention or unwillingness to observe those rules give us an excuse to be jerks? No, not unless they are deliberately trying to cause harm.
Sorry, joe21, but unless there were more extenuating circumstances than you described in the incident where you nearly trampled a man and his pet, in my opinion, your behavior was inexcusable, unnecessary, and a bad example of how a horse person should interact with the other people who share public land.
Another thing to consider, if you are riding somewhere that allows dogs off-leash, is that you may not be able to protect/control your dog if it gets in a confrontation with another dog. Your dog may be very well-trained, but if another dog starts a confrontation, you will have to control your scared horse as well as your dog.
I used to trail ride with my dog all the time and never had a problem, but I was attacked by a strange dog once while riding without my dog. It was hard enough to control and protect my horse from the pit bull… I would have been really scared for my dog if it had been there and tried to protect me from the attacking dog.
I’ve always just been a lurker at this site but the subject matter compels me to tell a little story about some good friends of mine…This is a copy of an email I sent to family and friends
Massive heart attack 5:20 pm April 21. Maanarj’s Believe It or Not aka “Ripley” is gone too. We can’t breathe, think or move.
1 week after his 5th birthday. 16 days after losing his sister Daisey (she was our 15 yr old English Springer Spaniel…retired from Obedience competition)
We weren’t even looking for a dog. I went to a dog show with my friend and while there we were invited to see “the most fabulous litter of dobe pups”. I couldn’t ever dream of owning a dog of such stature, but I wanted to at least hold and admire them. His mom and dad were champions, but his dad was a dog who couldn’t be beat in the show ring. Multiple Best in Shows everywhere including Westminster and hundreds of others.
Lucky for us, Ripley had a minor birth defect which made him unsuitable for a show home. His breeder called me a couple months after I met him to see if I could take him. Needless to say, we’ve all loved him ever since. He’s been an absolute joy to live with. Always known for his perfect mix of dignity and goofiness, he was the good will ambassador for the Doberman breed impressing all he met with his sweet disposition, joy for life and his breathtaking beauty.
He loved absolutely every adventure as long as he was with Mom or Dad. His favorite of all was horse-back riding with me and his buddy Andy. We would go into the woods for hours, going for miles and miles. Jingle bells on his collar were the only way to keep track of him because he ran so fast and so far. The bells also gave Andy a “heads up” for when Ripley came blasting up from behind.
In December of last year, we had an unfortunate accident on a trail ride. I slipped off of Andy’s back after he tripped badly. Andy got scared and ran down the trail leaving me behind ( He’s really a huge chicken. Silly things like a rider falling off really freak him out)
Ripley, not realizing that I had fallen off, continued to follow Andy as always. I’m sure at some point Ripley looked up and noticed that I wasn’t in the saddle. He knew the way home since it was a trail he traveled 3-4 times a week but he chose to stay with Andy through the night. Andy stops traveling after dark because of night blindness. Ripley stayed with him because he knew it was the right thing to do. Even after much searching by us and tons of friends, we eventually had to call off the search to resume in the morning.
Next morning a couple hours after sunrise, Ripley showed up at home with Andy following shortly after. It reminded us all of Disney’s Incredible Journey. When Andy and Ripley first met, they were not at all fond of each other but with time, it became pretty obvious they were a pretty tight pair.
I tell this story because not only have we lost our dear Ripley but we are losing our much loved Andy as well. I will not write another email since I don’t think I can bear any more. Andy has lymphosarcoma of his GI tract. We will keep him happy and comfortable as long as we can but when the pain is too much to bear, we will do the hardest thing for us but kindest thing for him.
We feel honored to have had such loving, loyal pets with truly good souls and we take comfort in knowing that they all had extremely full happy lives but we will miss them so much.
andysmom, that brought tears to my eyes, i’m sorry for your loss
as far as trail riding with dogs, make sure you are allowed dogs off leash first as said many times
i had a lab hound mix who was also a delta certified therapy dog and very smart, i trained her to whistle, she was a shelter dog about 3 years old whne we got her, she was not trained at that point and we are not dog trainers but my husband and i made training fun and she really wanted to do the right thing
after she was solid off lead with voice commands we started trail riding and i got sick of shouting like a maniac all over the trail when she wandered off, so my husband had the bright idea of training her to a whistle, at first he would walk along and give the voice command and then the whistle, we kept it simple, heel, come, sit, down, it took a few times out for her to make the connection between voice commands and the whistle, then i would use the whistle and my husband came along for backup incase she got confused, i never had a problem with her, of course this was also a dog invitied to weddings and vacations
she actually trained my shepherd to take over her spot when she got too old to come with us
i ride with my goat now
Joe I agree with you if you are going to have your dog out there they better listen. I take my dog with me and she keeps other dogs away she is not mean just makes it clear that we are her people. We have spent many miles working together my dog and I before she came out on rides with me. The horse are so accustom to her thet they are not as worried about dogs. Also the horses act as if she is a ridding partner so I can take them alone.
I have a Border Collie she is a great farm dog.
Our rottie crosses used to come with us years ago. However, with the bigger breeds especially with the younger ones-you have to watch for acl injuries-they can occur pretty easily. They did with my 120 lab/cross. Not sure he did it on the trail but the potential was there so we stopped bringing him along (of course the 2nd one blew too for bit til both were repaired .
I adopted my first hound 2 years ago. He was used to being out with the horses and had stopped hunting. He was known to follow right along with the huntsmans horse so it seemed appropriate. He loved it but died about a year after I got him from cancer.
My next hound needed some time and support. It’s likely he was kicked or injured in a past life as he had a fear but now has a respectful distance from the horses . My friend also has a hound whom she has had since a pup. Our horses have all hunted so are acclimated to hounds running amuck :). I love bringing my dogs along and try to stick primarily to remote trails where we are much less likely to run into people.
Should we walk or ride in more public areas I do have a rule that if I see another dog off leash we let them pass each other , meet & greet. If they are on leash then I will dismount and clip my dog in courtesy. I’m also more respectful of the protective breeds.
My friend has a small quarter horse and will ride with her dog on leash especially when we near the end of the ride and come to parking areas etc. IT is so hard to balance it all when you have animals . THis is such a nice option. We often feel guilty when we leave them at home .
My first trail dog was a Pom…LOL, I know:lol: She was great… Loyal, kept up and when she got tired, I would toss her on Monty’s butt.
I would have to say that my fav. trail dog’s are Heelers. I know they are not the breed for everyone, but they do excel with training.
We ride anywhere from 10-30 miles on our trail rides. Our dogs keep up every step of the way. My older male (13) has just slowed down enough, that I take him camping with us, but leave him at camp. His minds willing, but not his body.
My female is still eager to go. I really do think that to have one ‘train’ another is oh so helpful.
I think your most important command is a recall. You can handle most situations if you can keep your dog by yourside.
My dogs don’t run ahead or play around on the trail. They are smart enough to realize that the trail ride is going to last all day. No wasted energy from them They stay about 5 feet behind me, don’t pass me and come to my left side when I stop. That is habit for them. I don’t say a word.
I’ve taken my dogs all over the place. They ride in the Parades, highways, private property, etc.
We go to Love Valley several times a year and that is horse/rider/cowboy chaos…LOL… They stick to me like glue. I’ve riden with ppl who have lost their dogs, or the dogs have turned back, or ridden off with another rider. I don’t have to worry about that. A Heeler’s life is to be with their ‘herd’. In my case, me and my horse.
When we hitch up somewhere, my dogs drop and rest at my horses. regardless of what anyone else is doing. I didn’t train them for that, it’s nature.
I do agree that most of the trail savvyness comes from training, but it’s nice to get a breed that has the instinct to stay with you and your horse.
Good luck on your puppy hunt, look forward to some pix
I don’t think I would go galloping down trails and expect the world to yield to me.
The trails don’t belong to anyone and it’s a PRIVILEGE not a right to be able to ride on them. And unfortunately the hikers and foot traffic have a louder voice then us equestians… I would do everything in my power to ensure the trails stay open for horses…
Practically running down a man and his dog… uggg:no:
The place I used to work for did guided trail rides on a “horse only” section of trail in a county park. Despite the trail being posted EQUESTRIAN USE ONLY, we used to see a lot of dogs off leash. The vast majority were ill-mannered snots.
Also, “horse only” means squat in my area. Don’t know if it’s the same everywhere. Last fall we had a few incidents with young men walking onto the trail to intentionally spook our trail rides, resulting in clients falling off (luckily no serious injuries). They found this quite funny and came back for several days, finding fun new ways to spook the horses each time. The barn reported them to the park rangers on the first day, and the park rangers refused to enforce the “horse only” rule, and refused to even come out and give the young men a warning. The police also refused, despite the obvious safety risk. The whole thing made me so mad – I was glad I wasn’t a guide, because there’d be some serious violence going on.
The whole situation is irritating because the rangers are constantly warning us about riding on the “hiking only” trails, but won’t lift a finger to defend the “horse only” trails. Grrr.
Thanks for all of the replies. They certainly run the gamut
I’ll post pics of the new baby when she comes. The litter is due in February, weaned and ready to go in April, so we have some time to explore this further.
I live in Northern WI. I can’t imagine riding alone without my GSD. My horses rely on her also.She is European bred (working lines) I agree with Lori. And she runs point, clears the trail ahead. She has disposed of bears on the trail :eek: but stays close and never runs off. I used vioce command to train her but had she been willful I would resorted to a shock collar for reinforcement.
I passed a pair of women on the trail who had a goat following them! They said the goat thinks it’s a dog, and loves to go on trail rides, keeps up with them just fine, and is certainly a conversation piece. They said they’ve never had a problem with a loose dog confronting their goat, because the goat’s aggressive enough to the dogs that they run away.
From a very young age I started her with obedience training. I never took her anywhere for classes but did what I thought was best. I never tolerated any nonsense and was very patient and consistent with my commands to her. As a result she has grown up to be an incredibly obedient dog.
My dog does not venture out of my sight on foot or on horseback. Since she obeyed so well on foot, taking her riding was simple also. It took a couple tries for her to figure out how close she could or could not get to the horse, I let her figure that out for herself. I typically have her run 20 or so yards ahead of us (nice that she kicks up deer/squirrels to scatter them before we do!) but if I call her to heel she will stay 10 ft from my left side.
I think the key to a well behaved dog on horseback is having dogs that are very obedient on the ground first.
This fall I was riding the trail. There is a nice long flat spot which is great for running. As I was coming down the trail at a rather brisk pace, I saw a man with his off-lead dog. Both had their back to me.
I started yelling “horse! give way.” Must have screamed this 5 or six times. The guy (and his dog) kept looking the other way to see who was coming. It was about 5 feet away when both turned around and finally saw me. The dog missed being trampled by inches. [/QUOTE]
Don’t you know how to stop your horse?
You should learn that part before you go out on the trail…
PLEASE do not run people, or their dogs down, out on the trail. Yeeesh. You should come back to a walk or slow jog to pass people, especially if you are approaching them from the rear. Some people walk with headphones on or they might just be hard of hearing. I always pass with a very wide birth, at a walk, or slow jog. Only a jog if the person has seen me, and noted it’s okay to go on.
One of the trails I ride does say on the signs that horses have the right away but I always yield to bikers or hikers.
I’ve met loose dogs on the trail and I always stop and let the owner get the leash back on first. Even though they’re not “supposed” to be off leash, nobody wins when you play chicken out on the trail. If you’re going to ride public trails, you just have to learn how to coexist with other species, bikes, and hikers.
Here’s a great (and TRUE!) story. My friend and I were riding a trail and met a guy walking his chocolate lab, off leash. The dog went bezerk, barking, snarling, jumping up on the horses. Our horses were spinning and trying to get away from this thing that was trying to eat them up. We were pretty ticked about it but when the man caught up, he apologized, put the dog back on the leash, and we continued on.
Fast forward about 6 hours - got back to my friend’s place - I was dropping her and her horse off and about to head home when I realized my cell phone was missing. My friend called the number from her phone, and a man answered. It was the man we’d met with the loose dog! My phone must have fallen out of my pack with all the commotion.
He offered to drive the phone back to me, which he did. When I met him, I offered him gas money and he refused it. He apologized again about the dog, gave me the phone, and said he was glad he could “make up for it.”
Now, if we’d been asses about it and ran his dog down, made a big scene, and gotten into a fight, he’d have probably picked the phone up and tossed it in the lake. No one wins when you get into confrontations on the trail.
All 3 of my mares are good about dogs, but when they’re coming at her flanks and belly with teeth, that’s a different story. Usually loose dogs are just a nuisance in that they follow you, or bark incessantly.
I ride in quite a few organized trail rides on mostly private lands. Dogs are welcome. I amazes me how many people know this and bring horses who are not safe or good around dogs. A good trail horse needs to be sound around so many distractions. You can’t always blame the dog. Out of the other side of my mouth it is also the responsibilty of the dog owner to have a well behaved animal when it is out around other people, dogs, & horses. I have been training labs for licensed retriever trials for about 20 years. They have a good obedience foundation and then we introduce the electric collar. If done correctly it is a valuabel tool. It is not just used for punishment or correction. Many times it is used to re-enforce a command. I take three dogs riding with a three collar controller and it works great if they need some reminders. Usually just the thing on their neck is enough. I also use whislte commands for here and sit. It is getting harder to find places to take my dogs. They love to go and I keep them in shape with four wheeler runs once or twice a day. However I leave them at home or take one have in the camp for company if I go to a place where there might be a problem. No sense creating problems and losing any more places to ride.
One place I ride conducts pointing dog trials off horseback. These dogs look like they could go forever. Has anyone had experience with these dogs as a trail dog?
for bit til both were repaired .
They stay about 5 feet behind me, don’t pass me and come to my left side when I stop. That is habit for them. I don’t say a word.