I am getting a Greater Swiss Mountain Dog puppy, I can’t wait, and would like to teach her to “heel” while I am riding the trails. I ride by myself ALOT, and there have been some uncomfortable instances when meeting up with pedestrians on the trail. One guy was downright scary and really want the security of a large dog with me. Has anybody trained thier dog to do this? If so how? would it be similar to basic obedience with a long “leash” from the saddle?
I used to ride with my shepherd mix, she would just kind of follow and make mild detours, but the area where I go now demands “in control” at all times for the canines.
I’m very interested in finding a dog to ride and condition w/me as well. I’ve looked into quite a few breeds that combine stamina, trainability and have that protective factor and considered Rhodesian Ridgebacks, Standard Poodles, Black Russian Terriers and the Greater Swiss Mt Dog.
What led you to choose the Swiss?
The breed embodies all that I am looking for in terms of a trail buddy: loyalty, intelligence, work-ethic, stamina and size. In addition, they are so gorgeous. How can you pass this up?
If I can do it with my dog… anyone can!
I have a bluetick coonhound who hacks out with me all the time. She wears a training/ shock collar that has the “beeping” feature (you can beep them instead of shock them) if she gets too far all I have to do is beep her and she comes back…
any dog with enough stamina/speed can keep up and enjoy a trail ride or hack ! They just have to be taught that it is part of their routine…and that they have to stay close.
[QUOTE=InVA;2921819]
I have a bluetick coonhound who hacks out with me all the time. She wears a training/ shock collar that has the “beeping” feature (you can beep them instead of shock them) if she gets too far all I have to do is beep her and she comes back…
any dog with enough stamina/speed can keep up and enjoy a trail ride or hack ! They just have to be taught that it is part of their routine…and that they have to stay close.[/QUOTE]
Oh, good idea about the shock collar.
:yes:
Ohhhhhhhh, I would love an Irish Wolfhound for that, or maybe a Russian Wolfhound. They are BIG, but gentle giants. Can be very protective without being agressive. They were used in Ireland (or Russia) for hunting and killing wolves and once accustomed to exercise could easily keep up with a horse. The Irish Wolfhound motto is “Gentle when stroked, fierce when provoked”.
Sometimes when conditioning I go farther and faster than a short hack, 10-20miles, so stamina and obedience were of paramount concern. The Swissie looks great especially since we have so many kitties and some protective breeds I looked at were a little concerning around small animals.
Ohhhhhhhh, I would love an Irish Wolfhound for that, or maybe a Russian Wolfhound. They are BIG, but gentle giants. Can be very protective without being agressive. They were used in Ireland (or Russia) for hunting and killing wolves and once accustomed to exercise could easily keep up with a horse. The Irish Wolfhound motto is “Gentle when stroked, fierce when provoked”.
I LOVE Irish Wolfhounds! But goodness, they are big and may be a bit of a squeeze even in my SUV.
HI. I trained personal protection and livestock guardians for 10+ years.
As long as you start a pup right, you can have a great trail buddy.
Mine was my Czech working line GSD. They get my vote for all around trainable, protective dogs IF you choose the correct type (non American, non show lines).
Just keep in mind that no matter what the breed, you are liable should the dog bite someone out on a trail.
I did start my own dogs on long lines. I introduced them to the pony and livestock early, put basic obedience on them and went from there. Remember the two most important factors in working dogs. You want a recall and you want a down.
I do not use shock collars on my protection dogs. Misused, they can do more damage than good. I did use them for correction on the livestock guardians when they played chase as pups, because they only tried this when I was not around.
Pandorasboxx, you named several breeds all with different purposes. BRTs can be quite hard dogs and thick headed. Make sure whatever llines you get have good temperament in the genetics when getting into working breeds. I had a Giant Schnauzer. She was great on trails and worked with me fine, but hard headed. She was also one I could not totally trust not to bite someone as I got her past her socialization phase of puppyhood and she had some issues. She was too nervy for my security around people and rather than have someone bitten, I sent her back to the trainer.
I’d never purchase a dog, I prefer shelter mutts. I’ve never specifically trained any for riding with me, it seemed like they either “got it” or they didnt. I have 2 now that are awesome on the trails- stay right with me, dont bother any person or animal and never “take detours.” The one thing though, is that there are quite a few people nowadays who get IRATE at seeing dogs loose on the trail no matter how well behaved they are. I’ve been cursed at and threatened a few times. It is true that there are leash laws pretty much everywhere so you definitely run the risk of getting fined or just verbally abused!
What a bummer that you don’t feel safe where you ride. 
I hope you can train your puppy to be a good trail companion and give you some security. But I want to echo what Lori said – if your dog isn’t “in control” and bites or injures someone you’ll be liable.
Also, if the regs say “on a leash,” please comply – for other people’s safety and your dog’s, too. Some horses (like mine) can be aggressive around dogs. The place where I ride most often has a clearly posted leash regulation, but many people ignore it. I really don’t want my horse to injure a dog because their owner was clueless. So when one of these nice doggies trots down the trail, I have to stop or turn around, and wait for the owners. Not a big deal, unless my horse connects before they get their dog away. And then I get the dirty looks.
I wish you the best with your new puppy.
My Walker hound hacks with me too! I have a Weimaraner too that I hope to get out on the trail with me next year. I haven’t used a shock collar as my hound is pretty good about sticking by me, but on ocassion it would have sure been handy. 
And I agree, if hound owners can do it - you surely can do it with a companion dog!
My biggest and best suggestion to you would be “Get thee to a reputable dog trainer” - because honestly, before you can even consider having a dog that’s “under control” from horseback, you’ve got to have a dog that’s under control from the ground! I think you’ll probably need to work with someone who can go beyond “basic” good manners training - because they’re often focusing on getting students past the AKC Canine Good Citizens test, which is ALL on-leash work.
Not saying that you couldn’t work the dog off your horse with a long-line, but for safety’s (and sanity’s) sake (for both you and the horse!), you’ll probably be happier if the dog is VERY reliable off-leash from the ground first. Once those commands are rock-solid on the ground, they should be pretty reliable from the saddle (though I’d definitely work in a ring for a while before heading out on the trails!)
I say this as someone who works dogs in AKC Obedience and Rally Obedience (and has a retired horse, so “serious” riding is out at the moment). I’ve never trained a dog specifically to tag along on trail rides, though I’ve been on many a ride with a whole pack of pups along! I have taken my big guy (Border Collie-ish) out to the barn while I rode in the paddock, and played with some of his commands from horseback - he was VERY good, but man, if you ask for a “Down” or “Stay” while you’re mounted, and the dog blows you off, you don’t have many great options for reinforcing that command… I can’t speak for the effectiveness of a shock collar, because I haven’t used one myself (though I know lots of folks who have them, and seem to really like them).
One note (and I haven’t read everyone’s responses well enough to know if this has been said), be sure that you train and ride with your dog at a place where dogs are allowed off lead.
I used to ride with someone who had a great trail dog – but he got fined by the park police a few times for having him off leash, then had to make him stay home. :no: Some parks and trails that are open to the public won’t allow dogs off leash (even if they are under your full training control), for both for your dogs safety and the safety of others and their dogs.
It’s a bummer, I know, but you should check out your local trail/park/county/state’s regulations to be sure.
I’ve always had horses and dogs. Best way I found to teach them to be good trail dogs is to go out on short hacks with good trail dogs. You need to have basic obedience before you add in the horse…they need to come when call and have sit or down. And you need to be ready to get off your horse to re-enforce the basics if necessary. I would NOT start them on a line off a horse…good way to get your self, horse and dog hurt.
I have a border collie and rottie. VERY different dogs. My border collie was taught about hacking out by my older rottie…but the biggest issue with him was teaching him that herding horses is not alowed.
I would not recommend either dogs for first time owners. But I just took my 6 month old rottie (a rescue that I got when she was about 10 weeks—folks decided that they wanted a Shitzu instead of a rottie!) on her first hack and she was a star. I do not want them right on my horse’s heels (a few horse lengths in front of us or behind us but off to the side and far enough back that they will not get kicked) but with just a little direction from me…and following her dog buddy…she was great.
You dog needs to be good with strangers…and VERY good with other dogs. If you do not have “come”…and can not call them away when you meet someone else on the trail with dogs…do not take them out in public.
I can’t imagine riding and having a dog on a line. I had a wonderful trail companion for years and wouldn’t have even tried the leash thing. Having had a background in 4-H dog obedience I had started training our Chesapeake Bay Retriever to leash at 10 weeks. By the time she was 8 months she did pretty good off leash obedience. Eventually I boarded where I had access to private farm trails where I could take her with me legally and do solid mounted obedience work. I must say that a big issue is not your dog if it’s well trained and level headed, it’s other dogs or other people. Another issue for those who want a trail riding dog but want to ride at a decent pace, can your dog actually keep up realistically?
chicamuxen
I ride with my lab off-lead. She loves to run ahead, back and forth, etc. Basically keeps to a “perimeter” of 20-50 ft. She is good about not venturing too far away and comes back when called.
That said, I only do this in limited areas where I have a degree of control. I also don’t go too far/too long, as I doubt many dogs could keep up with a horse on an extended ride (at more than a walk at least).
From my experience, I think a lead is a very bad idea. It could get tangled or knock you off-balance if it goes taught at the wrong time. It also allows the dog a much smaller area of movement, making the “ride” less fun for him as well (if he enjoys it less, he will only want to get away from it more).
Using a dog in this fashion as “protection” is an idea that has some drawbacks. Most states have a leash law of some type. This means you are responsible for anything your dog does off-leash. Think about this carefully in light of the way our legal system actually works…
Scenario:
You are confronted by someone in the woods. He verbally threatens you and makes a move towards you. You are in fear for your life. Dog bites him. Man now calls cops and sues you… your vicious dog attacked him on his peaceful stroll through the woods. (His word against yours. And you are probably a law-breaker anyway, since you have your dog off-leash!) You are neglectful for allowing a vicious dog like that loose where he can hurt people. Hopefully you have a good homeowners policy to cover the court’s award. Oh yeah, they take your dog to the shelter too.
Far fetched, but it can happen. What is a better outcome? You run while your dog may or may not get away?
On horseback, you are already at an advantage. You can outrun any potential attacker.
For protection, you are better off looking at that guy on the web who has a series of “self-defense from horseback” videos. I have never seen them, but have heard good things about them. (can’t remember his name right now).
A good-people dog along for fun on a trail ride is great. Any hopes of using the dog in that setting for protection is a bad idea with little possibility of a happy outcome (other than possibly just intimidating a potential attacker from approaching - but then, wouldn’t a 1,000+ horse be more intimidating than a dog?)
One other point from the other side of the “dogs on trail” issue…
As others have pointed out, a VERY well trained dog is essential. Not only for the dog’s safety, but for others on the trail. To that point…
The trails I ride most are part of a state park. Not only do we have a leash law here, but all the state parks in this area have a strict “NO PETS” policy. Problem is that there is no enforcement on the horse trails (which also have an “only horses” policy which is not enforced).
The horse trails do border on several residential neighborhoods. Despite the restrictions on pets and non-horse traffic, many people use the trails as a place to walk their dogs. Many go off-leash.
Last summer, a friend of mine took 6 stitches to the face/neck when he fell off his horse on trail (yes, he was wearing a helmet). He horse spooked when an off-leash dog jumped out of the trees and started barking at/herding his horse. No one got bit - dog didn’t seem to be aggressive, probably wanted to play and had a strong herding instinct. Still didn’t stop my friend from an injury. Thank goodness it wasn’t worse.
Things like this have given me little tolerance for ill-mannered people with ill-trained dogs.
This fall I was riding the trail. There is a nice long flat spot which is great for running. As I was coming down the trail at a rather brisk pace, I saw a man with his off-lead dog. Both had their back to me.
I started yelling “horse! give way.” Must have screamed this 5 or six times. The guy (and his dog) kept looking the other way to see who was coming. It was about 5 feet away when both turned around and finally saw me. The dog missed being trampled by inches. With any luck, I scared this twit off the horse trails for good.
Don’t get me wrong, I love dogs - have three of my own. But some people need to learn the hard way.
Again, if you are going to take a dog off-lead (from horseback of otherwise) you better be sure that you are aware of your surroundings and that the dog has a “bomb-proof” recall.
[QUOTE=chicamuxen1;2922307]
I can’t imagine riding and having a dog on a line. [/QUOTE]
I should clarify that I didn’t in any way mean to imply that if the parks don’t permit dogs off leash, then they should be on a line :eek:. That is something I would never recommend. I was just trying to say that the OP should check the local laws/regulations to be dogs off leash are allowed (unless she/he’s willing to risk the ticket or fine).
As I said in my post – we left the dog at home when my friend got fined twice. No mention of using a lead.
Thanks for all the replies. You guys have given me a lot to think about. I absolutely agree that before we venture off into the great beyond, that the dog be VERY well trained. Although I have had dogs, multiple dogs, all of my life, I intend to do obedience classes, and I realize that it just may not work for whatever reason, sigh … perhaps, some mace and a riding crop would be a better trail companion …
Well, Joe21…
… it is interesting to me to hear you talking about “ill-mannered” dog owners in the same post where you basically describe running someone down on a trail after demanding the person yield the way to you and your “running” horse.
We all need to remember that we share the trails with all kinds of users, more and less experienced, more and less tolerant of horses, and that the person we run off the trail today may be the one who ensures we lose use of that trail in the future.
Please, be a good steward and representative of the horse community, even when confronted with idiots.
–Patti
