Dogs who live together/used to each other getting into fights

[cllane1]

My mom and I live in the same house and between us have 5 dogs: she has two Aussies, I have a mixed dog and a foxhound, and we have a coon hound who is a farm dog.

The dogs have all known each other for years and tend to get along well, although they have never lived together full time. I have been living there with my dogs for about 10 weeks, and all has generally been harmonious. However, yesterday my two dogs got into a scrap with one of the Aussies, had her pinned and nipped at her throat pretty good before we broke them up with a spray bottle.

Several things at play here:

1. I think the foxhound just thought they were playing and went along with it. She doesn’t have a mean bone in her body and has never even growled at any dog or person.

2. my mixed dog tends to be a little grumpy and aloof, likes to run and race the other dogs but doesn’t really play. I have raised her from a puppy (literally bottle raised), so I know she doesn’t have any back story of abuse or problems. I wouldn’t characterize her as aggressive to people or dogs, or protective of me, just slow to warm up to new people (will bark, but never make any threatening movements). When playing with the dogs she does growl and bark, but it seems to be her way of playing. She doesn’t pin or bite the other dogs.

3. I didn’t know this at the time, but my mom had put them outside and given them all treats as we were about to leave the house. I feel sure that some kind of treat disagreement led to the fight.

Other quick notes: of the 5 dogs, 4 are spayed females (including the two that fought), and 1 is an intact male. Male and female Aussies are litter mates. There doesn’t seem to be a leader of the group. They all go out into the yard together and spend time in the house together. My part of the house is upstairs, so I separate my dogs from the rest for sleeping and feeding, or if there are a bunch of people over.

We saw the vet about the Aussie’s bite marks and my dog’s grumpiness. Bites are shallow, he prescribed an antibiotic just in case. I asked him if I should consider something like Prozac for my dog (my sister has a Great Dane who has done well on it. He had a lot of anxiety and had actually bitten someone, though) to help her relax and not seem so anxious/grumpy. He said that since she has not displayed any long history of people or dog aggression and isn’t overly protective of me, he feels that it is just an establishment of the pack order as the dogs continue to get used to each other. He said to keep an eye on things and if she does get consistently aggressive, we can revisit the idea of medication.

I tend to agree that this was just a breakout of pack hierarchy, but my mom is upset and afraid to leave them out together now when we’re not at home. Of course, I don’t want another fight either. So what’s the best way to work through this episode and get things back on track with these two dogs?

[Calamber]

No treats together and I would not leave them together when you are gone. I would suggest the grumpy dog needs to be kept separated when they are let out for a while to get the situation settled down. I had an attack by my one year old Chessie and my 13 year old JRT, he took the brunt, but this was over a marrow bone. It has been almost five months now, I never leave high value items outside (it happened outside) and monitor her pushy behavior always, I now can leave them alone in the house for a short while but will never fully trust them together with food, treats or bones.

[Casey09]

Here is what I’ve heard from others. I knew a lady that did a lot of rescue work. She had about 8 dogs, but said that as they died of old age she would get her numbers down because spayed females get cranky and she had a major incident in which all the dogs ganged up on the smallest one (a shar pei x pit bull) while outside in the yard together when she wasn’t home and nearly killed him. She ends up having to keep him and her most mellow dog in her home office separated from the others. At all times.
I also went to a breeder and was considering a female puppy when I had a female at home. She told me that some bitches can’t be together and if two bitches get into a spat, then she never puts those two together ever again because bitches will kill each other.
I’m not trying to scare you, but you’ve got a lot of dogs together and a lot of bitches together. If you’ve ever been to a breeder’s home there are crates and baby gates everywhere. In the interest of caution, I would get crates and baby gates and separate when not supervised. That number of dogs and that many bitches can and will get into a serious fight, and that isn’t something you or your mother ever want to see the aftermath of. I’d be very cautious.

ETA: Definitely no treats or food together again. I went to a behaviorist with a dog that had bone issues and was told that the easiest thing was no more bones unless crated. My current dogs haven’t had issues, but I still separate during feeding times.

[Where_sMyWhite]

You don’t identify the genders of all the involved parties.

As noted, bitches may or may not get along. They may along for some period of time and then stop. And bitch fights are probably worse than any other gender combination…

[french_fry]

I wouldn’t leave a large mixed group of dogs unsupervised together for any length of time. Especially if they haven’t been living together long term.

Baby gates, crates, some inside/some outside, etc. A minor inconvenience, sure, but IMO the alternative is not worth the risk.

[hosspuller]

My two neutered Dobes are not left together without supervison. The young Dobe has never known life without the older Dobe. He will submit to the older, though he is bigger, faster, stronger. But there have been times when the play has gotten serious. The risk of serious injury means two crates when we’re not home.

You’re taking a huge risk with your dogs.

[cllane1]

It was never my intention to put any of them at risk. I guess I was naive in thinking they would all be okay together, as it had been fine so far. I appreciate everyone’s insights. I am planning to get a modular dog run from Tractor Supply tomorrow (this one, if anyone has any experience with it: http://m.tractorsupply.com/en/store/doc-bobreg%3B-professional-kennel-10-ft-l-x-5-ft-w-x-6-ft-h). That will give me a way to keep them apart until i can see about getting a different part of the yard fenced. For tonight and tomorrow I can keep her upstairs and away from the other dogs.

[Casey09]

Good luck. That sounds like a good plan.

[stb]

I would never leave them alone together again, if it were me. Bitches will kill each other. When one dog starts a fight the others will pile on. I suspect your hand raised dog lacks some social skills and that could be contributing. Regardless, don’t leave them alone together again.

[toady123]

If you have had issues I would say keep them supervised or separated when they can’t be watched.

My dogs are in larger groups fairly often (e.g. 4-6 dogs at family gatherings etc) and we always keep a close eye on them - if things get to rough and tumble, we break up the party. They are all known and familiar to each other, and have never had any issues, but you just never know.

My two (female, spayed) dogs wrestle HARD and on their own they are totally fine, but throw in other unfamiliar dogs and/or those who are not familiar with their antics and it’s better safe than sorry.

[jetsmom]

I’d get the thyroid of the grumpy aggressive ones checked. Low thyroid can cause increased aggession. It doesn’t even have to be that low.

[Simkie]

I had something similar happen between my two girls last summer after we moved to MN. I posted here about it, if you’d like to dig it up.

Summary: 10 yo spayed girl and 2 yo intact girl lit it up and went after it for realz. Had to beat them with sticks and scream a lot to separate them. (No hose etc nearby.) Lots of scrapes on both dogs with one small full thickness puncture on the shoulder of the younger. We’d been playing fetch with a stick immediately previously. Older dog hasn’t ever really fetched, but younger dog does. Older dog seemed to be instigator, but younger didn’t back down.

We put the older dog on fluoxitine as she tends toward anxiety and had done well on clomipramine in the past. Figured the stress of moving was difficult for her.

We also STOPPED playing stick at all with both dogs present. Best guess on what happened is older dog couldn’t figure out situation with worsening deafness and thought younger dog was ramping up to attack me. Combine with anxiety over moving and we got a blow up.

Both dogs are fine now. Older dog spent ~6 months on fluoxitine and we’ve not seen any reason to put her back on it. They are together in a kennel when we’re not home and play well together. We still avoid stick games and tolerate NO growly type noises from either dog, even in play. I’m pretty sure older dog is nearly 100% deaf, so we’re mindful of that.

I’d push harder for medication, be more cautious about feeding time and “dogs all together in a pack” time and separate the troublemakers when you’re not home, at least for a little while. Perhaps also consider pain as a factor in the dogs involved–could certainly be problem if someone is sore and arthritic (or whatever.)

[LauraKY]

[QUOTE=jetsmom;8192360]
I’d get the thyroid of the grumpy aggressive ones checked. Low thyroid can cause increased aggession. It doesn’t even have to be that low.[/QUOTE]

And get the full thyroid panel, not just the TSH.

[threedogpack]

[QUOTE=cllane1;8192039]
. I asked him if I should consider something like Prozac for my dog (my sister has a Great Dane who has done well on it. He had a lot of anxiety and had actually bitten someone, though) to help her relax and not seem so anxious/grumpy. [/QUOTE]

if you go to medication, be careful what you are prescribed. Some will lower inhibition and actually increases the potential to bite.