Depends on the registry. To the best of my knowledge ALL registries require DNA of stallions and AHS requires DNA of foals.
I know RPSI doesn’t require DNA of foals.
But for $75 you can get your mare or foal DNA’ed yourself, as long as you have access to the foal. The lab will contact the registry where the stallion’s DNA is listed to compare.
[QUOTE=Laurierace;6507689]
So Gibson and I should have our animals blackballed? [/QUOTE]
Not at all what I was implying!!
[QUOTE=eagle74;6508215]
Appsolute, link isn’t working. Just curious how many people posting on here have competed against GFF foals and lost or won?[/QUOTE]
As a majority of the horse people on this board are from the east coast, where the majority of HB occurs, not many.
And it’s been stated that the reason Jill Burnell is ranked number one in hunter breeding (not actual hunters) is because she drags a whole pile of babies to a couple shows in Cali and racks up points there, where she is only competing against herself. So probably a small select few have competed against her.
That was stated in a previous Do not do business with Gray Fox Farm or Jill Burnell thread.
I prefer to deal with honest horseman who can be trusted. Reputations are earned over time. Jill Burnell’s BAD reputation has been earned over time and the misdeeds are well documented.
A person like Ms. Burnell who blames her mother for losing a mare’s papers, which was the situation as explained by one registry to me in my struggle to get my Redwine filly’s papers (the email has been printed and saved), must be a terrible, terrible disappointment to the mother, which, in my opinion, is the greatest tragedy in this sad story. Who puts the blame for their own incompetence or deliberate fraudulence on their aging mother? To be a disappointment to one’s parents and for those parents to realize what their own married lives have produced …that’s tragic. Using an alternative name to put down one’s sister-in-law for stating the truth isn’t surprising. Brave of her sister to come forward, in my opinion, but also sad to feel she must come forward.
The folk who continue to do business with this woman must either have something going with her or be very naive. She doesn’t have much repeat business or, if so, it’s built on promises that are ultimately unfulfillable and that seems to be the case for the breaches with owners/trainers here on the East Coast.
[QUOTE=Daventry;6507706]
You can’t be serious? So you are asking judges everywhere to “compromise” their code of ethics and not place a horse that they “think” might be a Redwine foal, that likely does NOT belong to Jill, and owned by one of her innocent and unsuspecting clients…and that’s going to put her out of business. :rolleyes:
What IS going to put Jill out of business once and for all is to have everybody keep putting the word out there and letting everyone know about the three ring circus that is Gray Fox Farm and the unethical business dealings of Jill Burnell. The more people that know who the real Jill Burnell is, the better. If she’s not able to sell horses any more or sell semen, that is what’s going to put her out of business. Period!
Sadly, Jill Burnell is likely not going to seek help for her problem. I have a family member who is a hoarder, and it is not a disorder that is easily rectified…especially if you don’t have a great family support…and with Jill’s family members outing her on a public forum (which needed to be done), I doubt she has much support.
(The more people that post about Jill Burnell and Gray Fox Farm, the more these threads show up in the search engines and maybe it will help stop more Mare Owners and buyers from doing business with her!)[/QUOTE]
Nope, not what I meant and sorry you interpreted my post that way.
But again - as long as that particular “look” is all the rage in hunter breeding, folks will keep buying Redwine foals, breeding to him. etc. And trainers/handlers who want to win in the ring will keep pointing clients toward horses with “that look”. It’s a conumdrum - how do you stop her, when her stallion is siring foals that folks want? 
Edited to add - FWIW - unfortunately, she currently leads the USEF Hunter Breeding rankings.
http://www.usef.org/_IFrames/pointsAwards/points/leadingBreedersM.aspx?year=2012§ion=1900&viewCat=HunterBreeding
And again - a cross-post on the H/J forum, pointing folks to this thread, would not be a bad idea.
[QUOTE=DownYonder;6508283]
Nope, not what I meant and sorry you interpreted my post that way.
But again - as long as that particular “look” is all the rage in hunter breeding, folks will keep buying Redwine foals, breeding to him. etc. And trainers/handlers who want to win in the ring will keep pointing clients toward horses with “that look”. It’s a conumdrum - how do you stop her, when her stallion is siring foals that folks want?
And again - a cross-post on the H/J forum, pointing folks to this thread, would not be a bad idea.[/QUOTE]
The stallion and his get are not the problem though. The proof is in the pudding so to speak, they are nice horses. The only way to stop her is to make it clear that nice horse or not, it isn’t worth dealing with her. It’s like russian roulette and the odds are not in the breeder’s favor. That is what we need to make clear without punishing the animals that already exist.
[QUOTE=DeucesWild11;6508272]
As a majority of the horse people on this board are from the east coast, where the majority of HB occurs, not many.
And it’s been stated that the reason Jill Burnell is ranked number one in hunter breeding (not actual hunters) is because she drags a whole pile of babies to a couple shows in Cali and racks up points there, where she is only competing against herself. So probably a small select few have competed against her.
That was stated in a previous Do not do business with Gray Fox Farm or Jill Burnell thread.[/QUOTE]
Not true Deuces, that can be verified with the results and class lists via USEF.
Eek, she not only leads the list, she has more points then the next three on the list combined. :eek: And here’s another surprise, in the top 50 breeders - there is only one (24th) in the top 50 that is from VA. I would have thought that as a group VA breeders dominated this ranking. We don’t do Hunters… how meaningful / credible are these sorts of statistics. Are there lots of Hunters that are simply listed as “pedigree unknown” so breeders don’t get credit?
[QUOTE=Iron Horse Farm;6508125]
I have no dog in this fight, but I don’t actually believe this to be true.
I only use GOV or AHS for foals, and I know that ROmantic Star (and maybe one of the others?) is approved for GOV breeding because I looked at him.
And GOV DOES require DNA of foals.[/QUOTE]
Here is my quote:
Originally Posted by DownYonder
ISR/ONA does not require any kind of parentage verification for foals presented at the dam’s side.
Aloha and Redwine are both black with chrome.
Aloha, Redwine and Romantic Star are still on the ISR/ONA stallion roster. She only provides breeding certs for that registry and will not support any registry that does parentage verification
.
So where did I say that OHBS/GOV does not require parentage verification via DNA?
And yes, Romantic Star was approved by OHBS/GOV, as was Redwine. But they are no longer on the roster because their stallion dues have not been paid for several years.
[QUOTE=Cartier;6508302]
Eek, she not only leads the list, she has more points then the next three on the list combined. :eek: And here’s another surprise, in the top 50 breeders - there is only one (24th) in the top 50 that is from VA. I would have thought that as a group VA breeders dominated this ranking. We don’t do Hunters… how meaningful / credible are these sorts of statistics. Are there lots of Hunters that are simply listed as “pedigree unknown” so breeders don’t get credit?[/QUOTE]
VA has a much shorter show season. CA and FL have shows in Dec. and Jan., all winter. VA starts in late March and ends in Sept.
crossposted on HJ board…
No, don’t be! Remember you have a nice mare! The mare is more than 50% after all! 
[QUOTE=Cartier;6508302]
Eek, she not only leads the list, she has more points then the next three on the list combined. :eek: And here’s another surprise, in the top 50 breeders - there is only one (24th) in the top 50 that is from VA. I would have thought that as a group VA breeders dominated this ranking. We don’t do Hunters… how meaningful / credible are these sorts of statistics. Are there lots of Hunters that are simply listed as “pedigree unknown” so breeders don’t get credit?[/QUOTE]
Well, Jill has 554 points - 427 of those points were earned by two horses, Red Lable and Arbor Day, both owned by Brandon Gibson when they earned their points.
Not sure how hunter breeding works … second place (another CA breeder) earned all of their points off of two horses.
Love it how JB has 11 point earners listed (JB DOES have NICE horses!) - but 3 of them have “unknowns” listed in their pedigrees. How can she not know the breeding of the horses she bred?
[QUOTE=DownYonder;6508311]
And yes, Romantic Star was approved by OHBS/GOV, as was Redwine. But they are no longer on the roster because their stallion dues have not been paid for several years.[/QUOTE]
Don’t know the history on Redwine, or how Jill came to own him, but this is a sad ending for Romantic Star to go from the Reuters beautiful farm in VA to a dry lot pipe paddock. Sort of like what happened to Feiner Stern. Used and used till there was nothing … not even the memorial.
FLAMING PITCHFORK POSSE - thx Appsolute
[QUOTE=Appsolute;6508222]
just think the horse industry should chase scammers out of business with flaming pitch forks.[/QUOTE]
Proud to Run w/ Appsolute’s FLAMING PITCHFORK POSSE
:mad:
mad:mad:cry::eek::mad::eek::eek:
We are not really Anonymous. We are Legion - well LEGENDARY in our own minds. We do not forgive. We do not forget. Expect us. And, please have popcorn & cocktails / boxed wine:
And, seriously, if you EVER think that anything on CotH is untoward; do not ever make the mistake of going to 4chan to see what those crazy /b/ people are all about. And, if you have kids – get software to block that:eek: But, if you did happen to be connected to those people; this mess would have been shut down long ago in a spectacular way. I just doubt they’re into horses, since hacking is an inside sport, I think.
And, yes this is a serious situation, but personally, I HAVE to try to find bits of humor when I can, or I would not be able to keep going some days.
[QUOTE=eagle74;6508215]
Appsolute, link isn’t working. Just curious how many people posting on here have competed against GFF foals and lost or won?[/QUOTE]
I definitely don’t breed hunters, show on the line or own any stallions.
So this is creepy. I just re-read the stolen filly thread- eagle sounds JUST like royparker. Right down to the 3 sides to a story quote… Any chance BOTH of them are Jill Burnell?
But that is exactly what you are doing, trying to defend that woman.
So my question for you, kmsuds, is this: does your good experience negate all the bad experiences others have had with her? I mean, there are pages and pages here, in addition to court judgements, people posting on her facebook looking for money, etc.
Could you recommend others do business with her knowing this? That some people have good experiences, but many others [do not]?
I mean, it isn’t like these other people are making [stuff] up just to be mean to someone. She screwed them, end of story. That is a fact.
So the people who are just lazy get an out?
Kmsuds, try looking on the USEF Leading HUNTER Sires List. The Hunter Breeding Lists show that some of us occasionally do to get youngers out and about and seen - to help market them. It’s the HUNTER Sires list that tells the talent tale.
Considering that a good percentage of the Gray Fox get who are out showing in HB were taken for payment of debt in lieu of cash, the numbers of them showing tell a story of more than conformational integrity. I have it on good authority that the money owed by Gray Fox Farm to Peter Pletcher was finally paid in the form of a horse or two.
I breed hunters and jumpers. They actually have to be able to jump with scope and technique, and hopefully are bred to want to jump, great conformation being a part of that and something a breeder hopes to get from at least some of the offspring. I’m not surprised that a puppy mill churning out a lot of baby horses has enough youngsters left from any irregularities in the yearly crop to absolutely fill as many hunter breeding classes as they care to enter. The best Gray Fox youngsters that I’ve seen have resulted from more thoughtful crosses and can compete in-hand with the top tier of pretty and correct hunter “prospects”.
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