The article in COTH being referred to was one talking about the disconnect between HB and the performance divisions. I was a part of the article, as was Jill and maybe one other person. It was a couple of years ago, before she imploded. Despite all her problems, she is very smart and astute about how to breed her stallions. Unfortunately, she turns her intelligence to screwing people. But at the time of the article, most of this ad not happened.
Well - this is now on page 115. And still it seems as nothing happens.
I really hope that behind the scenes the people that went in the open here that they still get money get together and hire a lawyer to do something !
In regards of the answer regarding that foal that one person got from Jill. I would put all my stuff together and go to the fraud department immediately !
I myself goit screwed this year by someone in Germany acting as an agent (No not Kareen - by far she had also some disadvantages due to that person !!!). I went to the police, the person screwed other. She applied for a thing called private bankruptcy which leaves you after 7 years of good behaviour without any debts.
I seem to be the only one going the police road. A lot of other people she owes money to do not run after it or the parents pay because of their good reputation they want to stick to. But there will be sooner or later some situation that will break her neck and until than I do not stop explaining to people beware with that person ! And I am awaiting the policeactivities - hoping for a sentance because of fraud !
Anyone who needs to get money from people like this take as many actions as you can - This may not help you in the first place, but will prevent others and will stop the good life of these “bad” people !
I don’t think there is such thing as a fraud department in this country. Most of her crimes are civil in nature with the exception of the bad checks which the authorities don’t seem very willing to pursue aside from issuing warrants. A class action suit is the way to go in my opinion.
It seems we have a misunderstanding.
Obviously whoever writes an opinion piece would research the facts and not report hearsay. There are several legitimate sources available.
No one is asking COTH to be a judge or jury. It is a magazine that reports show results and news on equestrian sports. Often included is a commentary on the state of our sport written by trainers, judges, and other professionals. Those controversial opinion pieces are often discussed on this forum.
As said before, GFF has seriously affected the hunter division. Positives include some nice offspring, who are successful in the show ring. Negatives are financial (including an arrest warrant), and others are related to horse health and breeding protocols.
Why the big secret ? Why is this only place where people are finding out about GFF ? Why not in our national equestrian magazines ? Why are we not asking questions on a national level, such as why has this continued to go on for so long ? Should USEF be involved in any way ? What recourse do people really have when they have trouble with someone like GFF ?
This is an important story in our sport. When I mention it to people, they’re surprised, and ask “Where did you read that ? I didn’t see it.”
Exactly. That’s the point.
It is surprising to me as well that USEF can’t do something?
[QUOTE=Laurierace;6733789]
I don’t think there is such thing as a fraud department in this country. Most of her crimes are civil in nature with the exception of the bad checks which the authorities don’t seem very willing to pursue aside from issuing warrants. A class action suit is the way to go in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
Really the police does not have fraud departments in the USA ?
I knew that Canada has. And obviously in Germany you can report a person for fraud to the police and they have departments for that kind of investigations. Is fraud not an action one can be prosecuted as e.g. for theft or murder ?
I think when a step is taken back she has swindled , stolen , mistreated and emotionally and monetarily abused some of the best in the HB industry.
I think at this point simply choosing to not do business with her is NOT the solution. If she can take from the best then what chance do the small breeders or Independents have against her.
I sincerely hope that those of you with power and reputation behind your names put serious thought into jointing forces with others that have been taken by her and find a way to shut her down.
No matter how hard you may wish it, until there is an actual case adjudicated against her, no magazine or organization is going to do an article, write an opinion piece, or anything else, based on HEARSAY. The minute someone gets a positive outcome from a lawsuit or judgement, then there is something concrete to use. That proves that, despite her stories, and there are many, a court found the evidence against her to be satisfactory to indict her. Until then, it is just a bunch of (probably legit) people with a wide array of grievances against her. If you think you can get an article accepted by the CoTH, write away! But USEF isn’t going to take anyone’s word. They didn’t even do anything to E. Mandarino. Because the proof didn’t exist…
Each state has an Attorney General’s office that handles Fraud.
[QUOTE=alexandra;6733828]
Really the police does not have fraud departments in the USA ?
I knew that Canada has. And obviously in Germany you can report a person for fraud to the police and they have departments for that kind of investigations. Is fraud not an action one can be prosecuted as e.g. for theft or murder ?[/QUOTE]
what i find astounding is that the folks that got screwed aren’t doing anything about it - or a least it doesn’t appear like they are.
some folks sent info to a unknown entity here who disappeared but WHY don’t these same folks contact those that could ACTUALLY help them?
it really makes one wonder, doesn’t it?
[QUOTE=mbm;6733901]
what i find astounding is that the folks that got screwed aren’t doing anything about it - or a least it doesn’t appear like they are.
some folks sent info to a unknown entity here who disappeared but WHY don’t these same folks contact those that could ACTUALLY help them?
it really makes one wonder, doesn’t it?[/QUOTE]
Makes one wonder… what exactly? Most are in a different state - some on the other side of the country. Law suits are extremely expensive and then you have little chance to actually recover anything. And while her actions do seem to be criminal in nature, most district attorneys are buried in violent crimes so will choose to consider them more civil disputes and thus refuse to prosecute them.
The awful fact is that criminals often go unpunished.
No, it really doesn’t make me wonder since a good number are handling it privately and/or have made sure there’s a legal record on her tail. Eventually the arrest warrant(s) will catch up with her.
oh i dont know… why would folks believe in a totally anonymous person online to help them?
why aren’t more folks stepping forward? (maybe they are we just aren’t seeing it)
human nature is just very interesting to me… so i wonder…
[QUOTE=lauriep;6733831]
. The minute someone gets a positive outcome from a lawsuit or judgement, then there is something concrete to use. That proves that, despite her stories, and there are many, a court found the evidence against her to be satisfactory to indict her. …[/QUOTE]
But people have had judgements against her, she has been fined… isn’t this enough to be used as evidence? They have not been able to collect, but there were judgements. Didn’t John French get a judgement against her?
Just my thought, I certainly don’t know, but trainers have had FINANCIAL issues with clients forever. I think if something with more substance, like fraud or abuse, were proven, OR if there was the kind of pressure put on USEF that was brought in the Mandarino case, then that might be enough. But unpaid bills and bounced checks aren’t exactly unusual in this industry, nor specific to horses.
Selling in uteros that were never conceived, or failure to turn over a horse that had been paid for is much more substantive.
i think it might come down to whether it all was premeditated or just a whoopsie i bounced a check and now cant pay for it kind of thing.
what really has blown my mind as i watch from the sidelines is the latest where someone paid for a colt and then she turned around and sold it again to someone else! that takes balls!
Which would fall into the “failure to turn over a horse that’s been paid for” category.
It’s Jill’s own words that she resold the horse, using the claim the original buyer never paid. Considering the original buyer has record of payment, that’s a pretty bold statement…and the scam can only be believed so long.
I have a feeling this will ultimately end very badly and in an ugly manner for GFF. It’s a shame because Redwine and Romantic Star are nice stallions, and there really HAVE been some fabulous foals from them.
Jill Burnell of Gray Fox Farms has already committed more than enough crimes to get herself locked up for a period of time at some point. What I worry about is the people she will rip off or otherwise harm in the meantime. Those are the people we need to reach out to via this thread and any other means we can come up with. The horse community is small but not so small that there aren’t countless potential victims waiting in the wings.
perhaps someone needs to create a web page where folks can post stories/proof of what has happened to them? seems that might get attention?
perhaps someone needs to create a web page where folks can post stories/proof of what has happened to them? seems that might get attention?
Thought you were against pile ons?
If there is evidence, it should be given to the appropriate authorities with the documentation —and let them sift through hearsay vs fact and see what will stick.
Websites full of endless anecdotes and stories - untested “proof” posted on the net —are useless,
Equine driver has disappeared and now there is a new gatherer?Why?
If you have a legitimate complaint, consult a lawyer about YOUR case or maybe go to small claims court on your own . If there is documentation to show she took your money and did not deliver in breach of a contract , for example, you can proceed without all this other foolishness…
There is no 'evidence" on this thread. The evidence is in each individual case in the documentation of what was agreed, what was paid and what was delivered…or not.
I don’t see how a website with more of the same will change anything…
