Doing business with JILL BURNELL? BEWARE.

[skydy]

[QUOTE=Dressage_Diva333;6785174]
I was not going to get sucked into this, but I’m not going to stand by and watch my mother’s reputation get slammed. RUMORS NEED TO STOP. STICK WITH THE FACTS. I am not, nor would I EVER, defend Jill Burnell.

So here it goes…

Yes, Cheryl Ellis is my mom.

My mother was hired to do a welfare check on the remaining horses on the property. The seized horses were already taken, she never saw them. She was there for ONE DAY to evaluate the horses. The information is confidential, I do NOT know what was said about them. So to clarify, Dr. Cheryl Ellis is not, never has been, never will be, Jill Burnell’s vet. She was not hired by Burnell, but rather by the lawyer involved.

I have had my own (not pleasant) dealings with Jill Burnell. That has nothing to do with my mother, or her evaluations of the animals. She was hired to evaluate the animals on the property that day, not Burnell’s business practices or the already seized animals.[/QUOTE]

It is unfortunate, and understandable that you feel the need to defend your Mom. She is certainly only doing the job she was hired to do and I don’t doubt for a moment that she is competent in her profession. U Davis is a very well thought of vet program. The heat that she will be dealing with, from many horse people, is that she was engaged to give her opinion regarding the remaining horses, by Jill Burnell’s attorney , who IS acting on Jill Burnell’s behalf.

I understand that your Mom is working in a professional capacity and is thus expected to be impartial and rightly expects to be held so. MANY people do not understand this. I know nothing about your Mom, or you, or your relationships good, bad, or non-existent, with Jill Burnell.
That being said, probably not the best PR move by a vet to be paid by JB’s attorney in this case.

If your Mom is routinely called in (as she may well be, due to her excellent credentials), by attorneys on either side, to consult on abuse cases ,then she would have no reason not to take one on, and give her professional opinion without considering the PR angle.
Don’t worry…

ETA; It is unfortunate that RMHP did not make clear the circumstances of your mom’s involvement as you describe it.

[Indy-lou]

Indeed, this photo caused me to “snap” so to speak, and I’m sure it will cause others to do so as well: http://www.ratemyhorsepro.com/news/hearing-officer-seizure-of-burnell-horses-warranted.aspx. There are no rationalizations for the condition of this mare, and no forgiveness for the person(s) who neglected her care and/ or stood by and allowed this to happen; no forgiveness for the people who continue to support or enabled Jill Burnell once the truth about her became evident. If people are angry, no one should be surprised; this is disgusting beyond words.

[RajaArmada]

[QUOTE=Dressage_Diva333;6785174]
I was not going to get sucked into this, but I’m not going to stand by and watch my mother’s reputation get slammed. RUMORS NEED TO STOP. STICK WITH THE FACTS. I am not, nor would I EVER, defend Jill Burnell.

So here it goes…

Yes, Cheryl Ellis is my mom.

My mother was hired to do a welfare check on the remaining horses on the property. The seized horses were already taken, she never saw them. She was there for ONE DAY to evaluate the horses. The information is confidential, I do NOT know what was said about them. So to clarify, Dr. Cheryl Ellis is not, never has been, never will be, Jill Burnell’s vet. She was not hired by Burnell, but rather by the lawyer involved.

I have had my own (not pleasant) dealings with Jill Burnell. That has nothing to do with my mother, or her evaluations of the animals. She was hired to evaluate the animals on the property that day, not Burnell’s business practices or the already seized animals.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for posting. Unfortunately, due to her prior connection to JB through you, I really feel your mom made a very poor decision agreeing to take this on. To me it is a conflict of interest. If JB’s lawyer wanted to provide the best case possible, she would have chosen a vet who had no prior ties to either JB or the lawyer herself. That’s just my $.02

[EquusMagnificus]

[QUOTE=Lulu;6784907]
Dr. Cheryl Ellis received both her Bachelor’s degree and DVM degree from the University of California at Davis, CA. Her professional interests include emergency stabilization and care of the equine patient, equine technical rescue and disaster preparedness and response involving equines. She is the California Veterinary Medical Association’s Disaster Coordinator for El Dorado County. Dr. Ellis also enjoys traveling to Central and South America as a member of HSVMA-FS (Humane Society Veterinary Medical Association – Field Service Division) where she volunteers her time helping care for horses in impoverished areas. Her personal interests include riding her endurance mules and helping her daughter with her Sport Pony breeding program.[/QUOTE]

Wait wait wait. Let’s not jump to conclusions. This and the statement doesn’t mean the vet APPROVES of her horse keeping skills.

For all we know, the vet will come and say; yes, the horses are malnourished, but that Jill understands what needs to be done and is working towards it.

Hardly the same as saying “all is well, nothing to see here”.

Innocent until proven guilty. And her lawyer is quite the creative sort.

[EquusMagnificus]

[QUOTE=Dressage_Diva333;6785174]
I was not going to get sucked into this, but I’m not going to stand by and watch my mother’s reputation get slammed. RUMORS NEED TO STOP. STICK WITH THE FACTS. I am not, nor would I EVER, defend Jill Burnell.

So here it goes…

Yes, Cheryl Ellis is my mom.

My mother was hired to do a welfare check on the remaining horses on the property. The seized horses were already taken, she never saw them. She was there for ONE DAY to evaluate the horses. The information is confidential, I do NOT know what was said about them. So to clarify, Dr. Cheryl Ellis is not, never has been, never will be, Jill Burnell’s vet. She was not hired by Burnell, but rather by the lawyer involved.

I have had my own (not pleasant) dealings with Jill Burnell. That has nothing to do with my mother, or her evaluations of the animals. She was hired to evaluate the animals on the property that day, not Burnell’s business practices or the already seized animals.[/QUOTE]

Oops, I posted before reading your post.

Good for you DressageDiva and well done standing up for you mom. :yes:

[Lynnwood]

[QUOTE=EquusMagnificus;6785515]
Wait wait wait. Let’s not jump to conclusions. This and the statement doesn’t mean the vet APPROVES of her horse keeping skills.

For all we know, the vet will come and say; yes, the horses are malnourished, but that Jill understands what needs to be done and is working towards it.

Hardly the same as saying “all is well, nothing to see here”.

Innocent until proven guilty. And her lawyer is quite the creative sort. ;)[/QUOTE]

Your right the lawyer seems to be as questionable as Jill. Is there ANY chance she purposefully picked Mrs.Ellis because of her daughters past negative history with Jill. Perhaps giving herself that (corruptible or coerced ) angle to work should the statement not be in Jills favor?

I know tin foil hat on. I believe Dr. Ellis is on the up and up just don’t trust those two not to be cooking up some ploy.

[DMK]

Seriously, there is no limit to the other names that posters will drag through the mud in the absence of actual facts or knowledge?

JB’s actions stand - and will be judged - on their own merit, but the posters who have drug other people into this thread and vilified their reputations and actions with little to no knowledge of the actual facts … you might think your motives are good. You might think you are being responsible. You might think JB is the only delusional one in the bunch and you might be wrong. Looking at that poor horse isn’t the only sickening thing.

As a side note on the 10 days county issue - JB has 10 days to respond. If Marin moves at the speed of every other county in the country, that is when the process to evict/prosecute/fine etc. formally begins (either to evaluate teh correction or the staged process of dealing with the violation, inlcuding appeal opportunities). It will greatly affect the outcome of the case, but not in 10 days.

[Graymaresrule]

[QUOTE=Kenike;6785229]
I agree it’s natural. I just don’t blame her for being angry since the way that lost was worded came across as accusatory. It did to me, anyway…and I think it’s fair to say Genevieve took it that way, too. ESPECIALLY since so many others with shining reputations have been questioned throughout this thread.

It’s an interesting phenomenon, really.

No snark meant earlier, we just saw things differently.[/QUOTE]
I’ve have had only one interaction with Genevieve, on a thread about a pregnant mare. I asked “What did the vet say?” because I had a mare in a similar situation and IIRC her response was way over the top, extremely defensive. And also IIRC she had supporters justifying her very defensive response. Funny, I had forgotten about it till now.

[saje]

A lawyer’s job is to represent their client and try to get charges made against them cleared. That’s the job they signed on for.

Lawyers represent alll sorts of horrible, evil people, also people who are accused of horrible things but who are sick, not evil, also people accused of horrible actions who have not actually done any such thing**.

That Is Their Job.

Like it or don’t, but just because a lawyer represents someone accused of child rape does not mean that they themselves approve of child rape, or will bring children to that rapist’s house and leave them there unsupervised just to get free babysitting.

**and no, I am not putting JB in this category.

[Pennywell_Bay]

[QUOTE=sid;6785153]
I did expose her but I could not say who she was by name. When I posted the pics (would make you throw up) I had about 400 PMs right away. Even though her name was not exposed by name, most breeders knew who she was. The COTH dialogue and pics basically ran her out of the biz. Hope that is what happens here, no matter how all the legal things work out.

The mare in my case did of course the same thing. The life was literally sucked out of her body to feed her foal. By the time we found them she was almost dead and he was a stunted little thing. I’m happy to say he is no 8 years old and came back to full size, but it was a very long haul.

I love these mares. The give so much of themselves, sometimes to their own end to save their babies despite the ill care.

Her name was Jane Ervin. One of the top breeeders and IHF breeding handlers in the country at that time. Big name means nothing to me now. Water under the bridge. Thanks to being brave and posting on COTH, and all the support, never heard anything about her since. She posted on COTH often as Mshunter and had quite a following.[/QUOTE]

Agree with Sid on that issue. My BNT and I were the ones who went to look at a foal this person had on the farm in NJ. He was so horrified by 1. No shelter in summer w/ horses standing in a sand ring 2. No water 3. Not a stitch of hay or grain for the broodies. When we left he immediately got on the phone and started contacted his buds in the business to find out who had horses there. I contacted the Humane society people out there and the police, who were well aware of the farm, for whatever reason. In that case, we went with the owner and a police standy by and took and owner’s mare and foal (we had the paperwork and the human society people investigated. One mare and foal spent time in a clinic recovering after her owner siezed her. I had posted about this when it happened under my original user name on the board. It was a similar situation of starving mares. Her place was not a crap hole, her house was quite nice. I actually believe her daughter still comes on to COTH and defends her mom. But she was riding ponies at the time and was young.

[caffeinated]

[QUOTE=Kenike;6785208]
I am just amazed (horrified, actually) that so many are STILL believing what JB is saying, if even through her attorney.[/QUOTE]

I haven’t seen anybody at all on this thread believing anything from JB.

I have seen questions and people wanting some facts/documentation. Because until that photo from RMHP, all we had to go on was a couple press releases and information from people running the fundraising efforts. And it’s natural for people to want confirmation that money is going to the right place or that everything is being handled properly (especially after we’ve seen so many crazy things happen here @ Coth). That is not the same thing as “believing” or “supporting” Jill Burnell.

What is interesting, is that the folks who were asking questions about getting some confirmation of the horses’ condition have been accused of conjecture and whatever else, even though EVERYONE has been doing that this whole thread. Seems like anyone even tangentially involved in JB’s business or the horses has had the ugly glow of conjecture pointed at them. Just a question of who’s next.

[horsenut93136]

[QUOTE=carolprudm;6785592]
I’ve have had only one interaction with Genevieve, on a thread about a pregnant mare. I asked “What did the vet say?” because I had a mare in a similar situation and IIRC her response was way over the top, extremely defensive. And also IIRC she had supporters justifying her very defensive response. Funny, I had forgotten about it till now.[/QUOTE]

probably because Glenhill is a class act who does a lot for many.

[Renascence]

I think it may be unfortunate that the the lawyer is changing this to a class action suit including others who have had their animals seized. This coud indicate she sees a way to make money out of it from other owners, instead of just trying to get money out of JB, which is apparently impossible.

[Albion]

[QUOTE=carolprudm;6785592]
I’ve have had only one interaction with Genevieve, on a thread about a pregnant mare. I asked “What did the vet say?” because I had a mare in a similar situation and IIRC her response was way over the top, extremely defensive. And also IIRC she had supporters justifying her very defensive response. Funny, I had forgotten about it till now.[/QUOTE]

If your idea of “way over the top, extremely defensive” is:

Trust me carolprudm - if she ever shows signs that she is in trouble or my vet gets concerned Suerte will be up at UC Davis…

(from the Suerte thread) … you seriously need to recalibrate your ‘people being mean on the internet’ meter. Are you that desperate for a villain besides JB?

[FalseImpression]

The vet in this case is a witness, right? so, if the observations do not go in the direction, JB and her lawyer were hoping for, could she be declared a “hostile” vet? Just curious… because from what we heard/read, the conditions are bad for all the horses. A vet experienced in abuse, neglect cases may have seen worse, BUT still could not say everything is perfect!

Also, reading the Suerte thread again (oh the memories!!), YOU even said you did not consider Gen’s reply snappy or crabby… what gives? almost 6 years later??? geez…

back to our regular programming!

[Kenike]

@caffeinated;6785654

I haven’t seen anybody at all on this thread believing anything from JB.

So all those lynchmob posts against Dr. Ellis last night weren’t people taking Jill and/or Maggie Weems at their word when they stated Dr. Ellis is their vet and she feels all the horses are in great shape with no signs of abuse or neglect? Interesting.

(Though one DID say “IF it turns out she is their vet and passed this mare as healthy.”* that individual showed plenty of doubt in their thought process and rightly opted to wait for firm facts before saying she’d take action with the licensing board. That wasn’t a post throwing direct blame; rather it was emtional disbelief)

*paraphrased

[caffeinated]

Since the comment about believing JB was directed at the folks wanting more information on exactly what shape the horses were in and wanting some confirmation from MHS, I believe it applies.

But even the people ready to lynch the vet don’t actually seem to defend JB anywhere, and all seem to be roundly denouncing the condition of the horse and care JB gave. A whole lot of the posts have taken grains, little nuggets and snippets of JB’s “side” of the story, to extend attacks and suspicion on other people. But I haven’t seen anyone on here saying “You will see! JB will be cleared and this is all a vendetta!” or anything of that sort. Have you?

[Graymaresrule]

[QUOTE=Albion;6785858]
If your idea of “way over the top, extremely defensive” is:

(from the Suerte thread) … you seriously need to recalibrate your ‘people being mean on the internet’ meter. Are you that desperate for a villain besides JB?[/QUOTE]
Fail, and no i didn’t bookmark it

[Laurierace]

[QUOTE=carolprudm;6785592]
I’ve have had only one interaction with Genevieve, on a thread about a pregnant mare. I asked “What did the vet say?” because I had a mare in a similar situation and IIRC her response was way over the top, extremely defensive. And also IIRC she had supporters justifying her very defensive response. Funny, I had forgotten about it till now.[/QUOTE]

Foal watch is hard, even harder when you have it on the net for all the armchair quarterbacks of the world to see, it is easy to get snappy after a while. Gen is a class act and has helped many people get things made right by Jill Burnell. She seemed to be the only one that could talk any sense into her for quite a while, not sure if that has changed now or not.

[Graymaresrule]

[QUOTE=Albion;6785858]
If your idea of “way over the top, extremely defensive” is:

(from the Suerte thread) … you seriously need to recalibrate your ‘people being mean on the internet’ meter. Are you that desperate for a villain besides JB?[/QUOTE]

LOL, nice try. I had no idea who JB was before I was asked to donate to the auction. I don’t frequent this forum, thanks for the reminder