She is clearly insane.
BCS 3 alone is not grounds for seizure pretty much anywhere in the country. At BCS horses still have adequate reserves to keep going. Plenty of athletic horses (cue COTHer pointing out that these horses are not athletes :rolleyes:) are BCS 4, endurance horses sometimes in the 3 range. So no, 3 - 4 is not seizure range.
Dr. Ellis’ statement counters a MHS investigator saying the pastured horses needed shoes, which leads me to believe MHS aren’t the equine rescue experts some would claim.
When is MHS going to give an accurate, non-lawyerly statement about the stallion’s condition? Was his jaw broken, or not? Not that all jaw fractures are even the same degree of bad.
[QUOTE=Dead Lame;6786756]
BCS 3 alone is not grounds for seizure pretty much anywhere in the country.
Dr. Ellis’ statement counters a MHS investigator saying the pastured horses needed shoes, which leads me to believe MHS aren’t the equine rescue experts some would claim.
When is MHS going to give an accurate, non-lawyerly statement about the stallion’s condition? Was his jaw broken, or not? Not that all jaw fractures are even the same degree of bad.[/QUOTE]
Was wondering why the comment about pasture horses needing shoes as well. But maybe because their feet looked so bad?
[QUOTE=Dead Lame;6786756]
BCS 3 alone is not grounds for seizure pretty much anywhere in the country. At BCS horses still have adequate reserves to keep going. Plenty of athletic horses (cue COTHer pointing out that these horses are not athletes :rolleyes:) are BCS 4, endurance horses sometimes in the 3 range. So no, 3 - 4 is not seizure range.
Dr. Ellis’ statement counters a MHS investigator saying the pastured horses needed shoes, which leads me to believe MHS aren’t the equine rescue experts some would claim.
When is MHS going to give an accurate, non-lawyerly statement about the stallion’s condition? Was his jaw broken, or not? Not that all jaw fractures are even the same degree of bad.[/QUOTE]
A body score is not a 3 when its followed up with “thin /verging on very thin”
And your are right about “not athletes” comment they are breeding animals as to their foal or not in foal status was that word of mouth or were they all palpated ?
What strikes me the most and it is not against Dr. Ellis is the repeated issues followed by the assumption that these were things that Jill would be able to remedy or was not refusing to do. She has horses ranging from one or two fair to many in poor body condition not including those already seized …how is it reasonable to assume she will or has been adequately providing for them. She had not been up to this point and their condition clearly reflects that.
Does ANY humane organization visit every day when only some of a group are seized?
Genuine, non-snarky question. I don’t know what protocol is, though I would guess that it varies by state, county, organization, and individual case.
[QUOTE=saje;6786785]
Does ANY humane organization visit every day when only some of a group are seized?
Genuine, non-snarky question. I don’t know what protocol is, though I would guess that it varies by state, county, organization, and individual case.[/QUOTE]
There was a recent case in my county , attending veterinarian and overseeing animal control officer were doing weekly checks not to fall on the same day with no announcement of intent to visit needed for the first 30 days at least or until horses condition improved and owners sufficiently proved a change in husbandry and then subject to random check ins.
I read the entire document. I have a LOT of questions, but none can actually be answered here.
The BCS-3 “thin, verging on very thin” and not being in distress bothers me greatly.
The amount of animals at BCS-3 bothers me.
The animals with blankets and “uncatchable” bothers me.
The two stallions (presumably Aloha and Redwine) “moved off property to get out of the mud” bothers me (because I’m having a time believing they aren’t actually being hidden)
And just how in the world is JB paying for all that stuff she told the vet she has upgraded the property with, or the amount of care/feed/supplements/etc. she claimed. No mention of EVA vaccines. And where are all those feeds and supplements? Don’t you think that’s something the vet should have been able to see and confirm is actually being done for the horses?
I could go on…
I will give the benefit of the doubt about the feet because the evaluation occurred after everything came to a head and the four other horses were seized. The farrier very well could have worked on the herd’s feet between that time and was stated as being there when the evaluation took place.
But sooo many questions…
There are 36 broodmares listed on her website. Of those, we know that at least Oiselle and Pop Tart are not actually in Jill’s possession, as well as Devil’s Sis and the other two mares who were seized. Is there any way we can harness COTH’s superpowers to determine which broodmares are actually in her possession, and attempt to contact previous owners?
I noticed Jill only provided “barn” names for the horses inspected since this is an ongoing cruelty or neglect case shouldn’t she have provided the horses registered names for the official list ?
Seems to me she was purposefully vague about who the horses really were. Certainly would make it easier for her to move them around if nobody for sure knows just who they are.
No mystery she hustled her money makers Aloha and Redwine out of there to ensure they were not available to be seized should it come to that.
…interesting. That declaration begs the question of where is Redwine? Aloha? Federalist is the only stallion listed. Let’s hope Jill refers to the old Radish mare as another name and that she’s one of the ones in care elsewhere.
Can anyone attach Declaration E – the farrier’s declaration? I can’t seem to find it and I’m curious to see if she uses the same farrier as she used to. Thanks!
So according to the vet there was a “truckload of hay”. How many bales of hay can you get in the bed of a truck (assuming it was a pick up truck) and how long would that last when you are feeding so many horses?
Well she provides an accounting of how many flakes each horses is getting(once a day) . Since there is no mention of grain being given it does seem to me that broodmares in foal some nursing and weanlings /yearling might need more then the 4-6 flakes provided a day. That does seem to be a fairly minimal at best feeding program considering they are being fed in a herd environment and unable to control who consumes what.
Alas, so many questions, but most of them probably aren’t going to be answered here anytime soon. I did read the DVMs declaration; I think the body scores are the most important piece of that as a snapshot of what she saw on that day, and I’m glad that they weren’t worse. Some of the declaration merely reports or repeats what Jill told her about how she feeds, and isn’t really proof of the Burnell’s management at all. Jill could say she feeds 6 flakes of alfalfa daily to every horse on the place, and the DVM can’t confirm or deny that based on a one day visit. She can only say the horses looked like X and there was water in the tanks the day she visited. What the horses looked like who were removed from the property and taken elsewhere, some might say “hidden” is anybody’s guess. It’s going to be a long road; might as well get used to the idea that this saga will go on and on…sigh
[QUOTE=HunterRider992;6786796]
There are 36 broodmares listed on her website. Of those, we know that at least Oiselle and Pop Tart are not actually in Jill’s possession, as well as Devil’s Sis and the other two mares who were seized. Is there any way we can harness COTH’s superpowers to determine which broodmares are actually in her possession, and attempt to contact previous owners?[/QUOTE]
The vet report lists the horses that were on the property and inspected, but not by registered name.
Why are you assuming a pickup? And why are you assuming it was still ON a truck?
A truckload of hay could be anything from 20 bales to 200 bales, depending on what kind of truck and what kind of bales.
The vet report spells out the truck size. It says that JILL told her the property was not accessible via a large hay truck, and without a structure for hay storage the Burnells are bringing in hay on a pickup and storing it on the truck.
[QUOTE=saje;6786851]
Why are you assuming a pickup? And why are you assuming it was still ON a truck?
A truckload of hay could be anything from 20 bales to 200 bales, depending on what kind of truck and what kind of bales.[/QUOTE]
Did you read the document?
“Food Supply:… Mrs. Burnell stated that due to the condition of the roads, that they have been unable to purchase large amounts of hay to be brought onto the property. Their current program is to store the hay on their truck and to purchase more hay as needed until the contemplated hay barn is built. On this day, I observed a pick-up truck full of alfalfa hay, which arrived shortly after my arrival.”
[QUOTE=hAlterHorse;6786866]
Did you read the document?
“Food Supply:… Mrs. Burnell stated that due to the condition of the roads, that they have been unable to purchase large amounts of hay to be brought onto the property. Their current program is to store the hay on their truck and to purchase more hay as needed until the contemplated hay barn is built. On this day, I observed a pick-up truck full of alfalfa hay, which arrived shortly after my arrival.”[/QUOTE]
Convenient that the truck full of hay arrives while the vet is there doing the evaluation.
Thanks halterhorse and stella. I just went back to read the vet report to see if I had read what I thought I had or not. You beat me to answering the question.
