Doing business with JILL BURNELL? BEWARE.

[Laurierace]

[QUOTE=Alagirl;6518770]
but you can’t go by foal size.
I have heard many breeders tell that at one point the big foals just stop growing and remain ‘ponies’
We had one like that, barely broke 15h, her dam was really tall 16h and then some (for the breed)[/QUOTE]

She is not a foal, she is almost 17 months old. She is 15.1 in front and 15.3 1/4 behind making her the largest by far of all the mare’s foals at this age even though this was the smallest stallion the mare was bred to. One horse of course does not tell you anything however, you need to look at many of them to make a generalization.

[RedMare01]

At least in Redwine’s case, the size thing is probably coming from Rotspon. Isn’t he known for throwing all over the place in regards to size? There are some really big Rotspons, down to pony sized ones (like Ridley, who’s 14.3 from horse sized parents).

[Noms]

One only needs to look at the mareline, Merle for clues.

[dianehalpin]

My Redwine filly is two (May 1, 2010) and is just below 15 hands. My yearling by Rubignon is the same height. The Redwine filly has Paparazzo as damsire.

[peskee]

I have a Redwine 2 year old here that is boarded with us. Red Bow aka Rieger has beautiful long, correct legs. By the way his mother is of substantial build but not big…he is branded Westphalian with a 10 temperament!

[ise]

For height you really have to look at the grandsires and dams as well. There are certain lines that are known for height, as their are some that are known for bulky builds.

If you want to track your foals (I did this early on in breeding for years), I took the height at the withers and the height at the top of the croup. When the height at the withers kept going and the height at the croup stopped - I just added 2" to that measurement and that usually ended up being their height, sometimes a tad taller.

[candico]

Can we revisit the idea of the “just the facts” thread? Just would love to be able to direct vets or others who are a little skeptical on how such a professional looking breeding business via the ads and quality of horses can be so “bad”. No vet is going to want to weed through these 60+ pages of posts!

Maybe just a concise account of how business went bad from missing horses to missing paperwork from the dozen or so posters here on this thread. I am sure one could cut and paste the accounts to the other thread, but would rather have the individual posters do so as to avoid confusion. And please, no speculation or commentary. That can stay on this board.

Thanks a million if we can pull this off…

[candico]

I’m sick today with a fever, and DH is doing barn chores for me so I tried to do something productive…

Here is a list of the posts/posters who had negative experiences, information, etc just on this thread. If no new thread comes out of this, at least we can have a quick reference to the post #s.

1 yeskatboxxx, 88 Irish Willow, 99 gibson06, 100 showjumpers66, 210 dianehalpin, 261 Anteup, 332 Vintage Lane Sporthorses, 380 Cloverbarley, 438 mactanscott, 805 Flashback, 839 Rissa515, 822 COTHalter 44, 878 Equine Reproduction, 939 smsjobe, 1057 AndNirina, and 1173 urciegirl. Please contact me if I made an error here… But I also thought rapazinni09 fiasco should be listed. I left out one or two that were maybe lost foals, non pregnancies.

#200,480,492 were posts linking arrest warrants, etc., and runwayz, AndNirina, and Equine Reproduction have vouched that it is indeed or rather was her lab. Dr. Steve Wood is her current vet. She has 33 foals due in 2013 and currently stands four stallions, despite recently foreclosing on former 3 acre ranchette and owing $$ to more than a few people.

[scierra]

[QUOTE=tradewind;6518717]
Well, Lauries foal by him is a strapping young lady. She is at my barn, and she is tall for her age and quite broad. She is gorgeous. Juliets mom is not large at all. Its not only the size of the parents, but of the grandparents etc.[/QUOTE]

But with the breeding and paperwork questions maybe a DNA confirmation would be in order. I know Laurie says no, but with all that has come to the surface if it were my filly I would want to know. Plus if the filly is ever bred and that foal is sold shouldn’t the buyer be guaranteed the knowledge of who the sire is by DNA. If it were a reputable breeder (not speaking of Laurie) it should be a non issue, but with JB there are questions of the actual sire of some foals. Just because Laurie is a good person and looked highly of on this forum no one seems to think anything of her sweeping this issue under the carpet. By the way I’ve seen her filly and she is a beautiful young horse so nothing against her.

[Laurierace]

None of her stallions are big though. Do you think she went to some other farm and got extra large semen and sent that to me? I could see if she had one big and one little but that isn’t the case.

[sketcher]

[QUOTE=eagle74;6516502]
Interesting read and this guy appeared to have a ton of evidence against him and still won the case!!! I guess there’s just certain things you can or can’t say about people publicly…

http://www.nvdaily.com/news/2012/01/kennel_owner_files_suit_over_online_postings-print.html[/QUOTE]

I don’t see anything here about a case being won,.

And for someone who is not a horse person and who supposedly would then have no knowledge of this board, what a huge coincidence that you happened to find the particular breeder referred to in this article. Not that that lawsuit does not imply some sort of karmic justice…but it is just one huge, fat coincidence that you happened to find it. Being a non-horse person and all.

[HCF]

[QUOTE=candico;6519258]
I’m sick today with a fever, and DH is doing barn chores for me so I tried to do something productive…

Here is a list of the posts/posters who had negative experiences, information, etc just on this thread. If no new thread comes out of this, at least we can have a quick reference to the post #s.

1 yeskatboxxx, 88 Irish Willow, 99 gibson06, 100 showjumpers66, 210 dianehalpin, 261 Anteup, 332 Vintage Lane Sporthorses, 380 Cloverbarley, 438 mactanscott, 805 Flashback, 839 Rissa515, 822 COTHalter 44, 878 Equine Reproduction, 939 smsjobe, 1057 AndNirina, and 1173 urciegirl. Please contact me if I made an error here… But I also thought rapazinni09 fiasco should be listed. I left out one or two that were maybe lost foals, non pregnancies.

#200,480,492 were posts linking arrest warrants, etc., and runwayz, AndNirina, and Equine Reproduction have vouched that it is indeed or rather was her lab. Dr. Steve Wood is her current vet. She has 33 foals due in 2013 and currently stands four stallions, despite recently foreclosing on former 3 acre ranchette and owing $$ to more than a few people.[/QUOTE]

There is a JB Facts thread. Maybe you can add this info to it. Thanks for compiling it all!

[scierra]

[QUOTE=Laurierace;6519280]
None of her stallions are big though. Do you think she went to some other farm and got extra large semen and sent that to me? I could see if she had one big and one little but that isn’t the case.[/QUOTE]

Not at all. But with such a nice filly I would think you would want to cross your Ts and dot the Is. JBs breeding business is just one huge SNAFU and you have seen the posts about questionable papers.

It’s just that any reputable breeder I’ve been around want to know. You seem to think that since you had a good experience (albeit a little issue that resolved) JB wouldn’t or didn’t do you wrong. You have the filly of your dreams, she is beautiful. You are happy with her, but due to the questions brought up on this thread, and one or two others, the sire might or might not be who you wanted. A simple DNA test would prove bloodlines. If you ever sell the filly or a foal from her don’t you think that would be important for future owners?
But it isn’t important to you so carry on.

[Cartier]

[QUOTE=sketcher;6519304]
I don’t see anything here about a case being won,.

And for someone who is not a horse person and who supposedly would then have no knowledge of this board, what a huge coincidence that you happened to find the particular breeder referred to in this article. Not that that lawsuit does not imply some sort of karmic justice…but it is just one huge, fat coincidence that you happened to find it. Being a non-horse person and all.[/QUOTE]

I’m going to tell you that is was Rate My Pro that posted the link to the Perry case (somewhere back about a dozen or so pages ago, there was a judgment entered, , and he was only responding to that. And you’re going to say “Opps, never mind.”

[skydy]

[QUOTE=Laurierace;6519280]
None of her stallions are big though. Do you think she went to some other farm and got extra large semen and sent that to me? I could see if she had one big and one little but that isn’t the case.[/QUOTE]

I think maybe she was referring to an earlier post of yours, re; not testing for paternity even though you had thought about doing so, only because of Jill Burnell’s sloppy management practices.
You have certainly done nothing wrong and have done your best to warn others, even though you were lucky.
Scierra, I think you are being unfair in implying otherwise.

[stoicfish]

[QUOTE=scierra;6519315]
Not at all. But with such a nice filly I would think you would want to cross your Ts and dot the Is. JBs breeding business is just one huge SNAFU and you have seen the posts about questionable papers.

It’s just that any reputable breeder I’ve been around want to know. You seem to think that since you had a good experience (albeit a little issue that resolved) JB wouldn’t or didn’t do you wrong. You have the filly of your dreams, she is beautiful. You are happy with her, but due to the questions brought up on this thread, and one or two others, the sire might or might not be who you wanted. A simple DNA test would prove bloodlines. If you ever sell the filly or a foal from her don’t you think that would be important for future owners?
But it isn’t important to you so carry on.[/QUOTE]

WTH
When did it become ok to tell other honest people how to do their business? Seriously. That is some sever righteous crap and not appropriate since she did not ask your opinion on the subject of her filly. And she never said JB wouldn’t do her wrong. Get back to the topic.

PS. all your horses dna tested against their parents? Not all the European registries even test all their horses against the parents. There is an issue right now with some very well know young stallions (that’s right, licensed stallions). Very reputable breeders. Anytime you breed there is a chance of the wrong semen being used.

[3Dogs]

Stoicfish…I am not sure how easy it is to follow this thread …god knows it is lenghthy! BUT

1. People have foals from JB stallions.
2. People who have bred to JB stallions have had …some…spectacular mares…which is what breeding is or should be all about!
3. Same people and others have had difficulty registering their offspring…as unclear WHAT registry the stallion (s) actually in?
4. JB is …well…a crook
5. Her being a crook has nothing to do with those honest mare owners.
6. But her being a wacko has a lot to do with the whole breeding industry here in the US…I leave out Canada
7. And she has shown herself to be nasty…

Breed to the honest NA breeders with …dare I say…more talented stallions than JB has !

[QUOTE=stoicfish;6519353]
WTH
When did it become ok to tell other honest people how to do their business? Seriously. That is some sever righteous crap and not appropriate since she did not ask your opinion on the subject of her filly. And she never said JB wouldn’t do her wrong. Get back to the topic.

PS. all your horses dna tested against their parents? Not all the European registries even test all their horses against the parents. There is an issue right now with some very well know young stallions (that’s right, licensed stallions). Very reputable breeders. Anytime you breed there is a chance of the wrong semen being used.[/QUOTE]

[Laurierace]

For what it’s worth, I didn’t take offense at the dna comments. It probably is a good idea and I really wish the registry had made the decision for me by requiring it, but they didn’t and that has to be good enough. I don’t see any upside to doing it now.

[scierra]

Laurie, I’m not saying you are reputable. I’m just saying that down the road it might be worth it to have proof that JB did not do you wrong too. For breeding or selling purposes later, if you go either route. Your filly is lovely! She is doing well and you are, and should be, proud of her.

I just brought up the DNA question due to the reputation of the SO. I’ve said before and will say again, that if I had a foal born that was bred through JB breeding program the first thing I would do now is check DNA to make sure there was not a mix up. That is specially true when others on this thread who question the viability of semen.

I am not saying LR is doing anything underhanded. I’m looking forward to watching the filly grow up and see what else she does. I’m sure she has a good future ahead of her.

[skydy]

[QUOTE=scierra;6519466]
Laurie, I’m not saying you are reputable. [/QUOTE]

:lol::lol::lol: I think you ARE trying to say that Laurie is reputable.