[QUOTE=Equine Reproduction;6529894]
I may be wrong, but I think you will find that the issue will be on the U.S. side of things. The documents that would have been falsified or forged would be U.S. documents. I suspect that it would have some pretty major ramifications for anyone that did so and would come under Federal jurisdiction.[/QUOTE]
Would it be a USDA violation? Or a Customs violation?
[QUOTE=DownYonder;6529904]
Would it be a USDA violation? Or a Customs violation?[/QUOTE]
Likely both.
Wow, Thank you so much for posting all of this information. I was looking at Redwine for one of my mares and have definitely done an about turn on that, don’t want to get involved.
As far as USDA CEM endorsement goes, since I have been at the USDA office about 3 times a week all summer, I have met her husband and her dad there getting endorsements a few times. At times I have overheard the USDA person question them about something missing(both seemed to know nothing about the actual paperwork) but she did get the endorsements for several Canadian shipments. Without the embossed USDA endorsement the shipment really does not get through customs. The only questionable part after USDA endorsements would be" who signed the health cert"? It is supposed to be an USDA accredited vet.
Other than that, with incomplete paperwork it just gets stuck at the border.
Some or all of the following may be pertinent to the current discussion.
Here is a reference from the USDA as to (part of) their activity for 2011 in the 2012 Explanatory Notes report (http://www.obpa.usda.gov/18aphis2012notes.pdf). Although it refers to APHIS actions other than equine, I suspect the same avenues and actions may apply in the case of someone falsifying export documentation for horse semen.
In support of its Plant Protection and Quarantine program and CBP, APHIS initiated 5,172 cases involving agricultural quarantine inspection and domestic plant health violations (including plant pests and diseases), issued 520 warnings, collected $1,376,471 in stipulated penalties, and obtained administrative orders that resulted in the assessment of an additional $175,250 in civil penalties. Based on hundreds of referrals from CBP in recent years, APHIS has conducted extensive investigations involving two companies for chronic patterns of non-compliance with agricultural hold requirements. APHIS referred both cases to USDA’s Office of the General Counsel (OGC) and/or the Department of Justice (DoJ) prior to FY 2010, and as a result of the investigations, OGC and DoJ reached agreements with the offenders to resolve these two high profile cases. OGC successfully negotiated a consent decision through which the one company, a major express courier, agreed to pay a $500,000 civil penalty and implement new procedures for improving its compliance. DoJ negotiated an agreement in which the second company, an airport services provider, pled guilty to two felony counts and will pay a $1,000,000 penalty. [My emphasis] In addition, APHIS conducted a high priority investigation involving the alleged falsification of multiple phytosanitary certificates used to import containers of apples from the State of Washington into mainland China. Agriculture officials in China reported the fraudulent certificates to U.S. officials, resulting in APHIS investigation. This investigation was of national significance because the major agricultural export market in China, (which took years to develop), was placed in jeopardy. APHIS identified a scheme through which the subject company could produce multiple fraudulent phytosanitary certificates based on inspection records generated for small amounts of fruit. APHIS had referred this case to DoJ for criminal prosecution.
In another USDA report (Office of Inspector General Semiannual Report to Congress First Half 2011 October 1, 2010 – March 31, 2011; http://www.usda.gov/oig/webdocs/sarc2011_1st_half.pdf), the following appears, which again although not related to equines, does relate to falsification of export documentation:
Federal Court Orders Houston Company To Pay $15 Million Settlement in Procurement Fraud Scam and Sentences the Company’s Owner and Others to Jail
In the Semiannual Report to Congress (SARC), First Half of FY 2010, OIG first reported that the owner and employees of a Houston food company forged export certificates to send expired and non-expired food to Middle Eastern companies, including suppliers to U.S. troops, and conspired with a transport company to inflate charges for delivering food and other items. In November 2010, the food company and its owner entered into a civil settlement agreement with the U.S. Attorney’s Office and agreed to pay $15 million to settle civil charges relating to this matter. In December 2010, the Federal Court for the Southern District of Texas sentenced the food company’s owner to serve 24 months in jail and pay a $100,000 fine. The former purchasing agent for the food company was sentenced in April 2010 to serve 36 months of probation and ordered to pay nearly $2.1 million in restitution jointly and severally with the owner. As we formerly reported, a contractor was also sentenced to serve 36 months of probation and ordered to pay a $2,000 fine and $42,000 in restitution. This investigation was conducted jointly with the Defense Criminal Investigative Service and the U.S. Army Criminal Investigation Command-Procurement Fraud Unit.
Elsewhere in that same report:
Florida Exporter Pleads Guilty to Using Falsified USDA Seal and Logo To Export Cocoa and Chocolate Products to Panama
An OIG investigation disclosed that the owner of a Florida company created false documents, including letter certificates purportedly issued by AMS, to export six shipments of cocoa powder to Panama. These forged documents were used to secure entry of the products into Panama and fraudulently attested to the wholesomeness of the products. For example, the Florida exporter used one such document to secure the entry of approximately 19,000 pounds of chocolate products, worth about $35,000. In February 2011, the exporter pled guilty to one felony count of fraudulently and wrongfully affixing the USDA seal and logo to a document. Sentencing is pending.
The following regulation would appear to be that applicable to falsification of USDA export documentation (http://law.onecle.com/uscode/07/7734.html):
Sec. 7734. Penalties for violation (a)
Criminal penalties
(1)
Offenses
(A)
In general
A person that knowingly violates this chapter, or knowingly forges, counterfeits, or, without authority from the Secretary, uses, alters, defaces, or destroys any certificate, permit, or other document provided for in this chapter shall be fined under title 18, imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.
(B)
Movement
A person that knowingly imports, enters, exports, or moves any plant, plant product, biological control organism, plant pest, noxious weed, or article, for distribution or sale, in violation of this chapter, shall be fined under title 18, imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.
(2)
Multiple violations
On the second and any subsequent conviction of a person of a violation of this chapter under paragraph (1), the person shall be fined under title 18, imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both.
(b)
Civil penalties
(1)
In general
Any person that violates this chapter, or that forges, counterfeits, or, without authority from the Secretary, uses, alters, defaces, or destroys any certificate, permit, or other document provided for in this chapter may, after notice and opportunity for a hearing on the record, be assessed a civil penalty by the Secretary that does not exceed the greater of—
(A) $50,000 in the case of any individual (except that the civil penalty may not exceed $1,000 in the case of an initial violation of this chapter by an individual moving regulated articles not for monetary gain), $250,000 in the case of any other person for each violation, $500,000 for all violations adjudicated in a single proceeding if the violations do not include a willful violation, and $1,000,000 for all violations adjudicated in a single proceeding if the violations include a willful violation; or
(B) twice the gross gain or gross loss for any violation, forgery, counterfeiting, unauthorized use, defacing, or destruction of a certificate, permit, or other document provided for in this chapter that results in the person deriving pecuniary gain or causing pecuniary loss to another.
(2)
Factors in determining civil penalty
In determining the amount of a civil penalty, the Secretary shall take into account the nature, circumstance, extent, and gravity of the violation or violations and the Secretary may consider, with respect to the violator—
(A) ability to pay;
(B) effect on ability to continue to do business;
© any history of prior violations;
(D) the degree of culpability; and
(E) any other factors the Secretary considers appropriate.
(3)
Settlement of civil penalties
The Secretary may compromise, modify, or remit, with or without conditions, any civil penalty that may be assessed under this subsection.
(4)
Finality of orders
The order of the Secretary assessing a civil penalty shall be treated as a final order reviewable under chapter 158 of title 28. The validity of the Secretary’s order may not be reviewed in an action to collect the civil penalty. Any civil penalty not paid in full when due under an order assessing the civil penalty shall thereafter accrue interest until paid at the rate of interest applicable to civil judgments of the courts of the United States.
©
Liability for acts of an agent
When construing and enforcing this chapter, the act, omission, or failure of any officer, agent, or person acting for or employed by any other person within the scope of his or her employment or office, shall be deemed also to be the act, omission, or failure of the other person.
(d)
Guidelines for civil penalties
The Secretary shall coordinate with the Attorney General to establish guidelines to determine under what circumstances the Secretary may issue a civil penalty or suitable notice of warning in lieu of prosecution by the Attorney General of a violation of this chapter.
So it’s business as usual…collecting and shipping from that nightmare of a lab.
Unless all the stallions are elsewhere, and someone is giving her the space to process shipments.
It seems we need more presence in Canada for buyer beware. I can’t bear another story months from now about sick mares. 
It was posted by Daventry on emg http://www.equiman.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=478475#Post478475 but either the Canadian breeders (in the East at least) do not use Gray Fox Farm or they don’t believe it. Daventry also posted the links to the EVA information,
bumped
Friend’s Redwine Colt/opinion of GFF’s Jill Burnell, etc.
A close aquaintence of mine purchased a 2011 Redwine colt in-utero. Her name is listed on the website, under the “congratulations” link. Obviously, I am not going to mention who.
Before I go any further, I am not going to express ANY opinion of Jill Burnell OR GFF, since I do not know her personally. Therefore, I am only going to speak of what I know from this person’s experience.
1.) Said aquaintence decided she was going to purchase a GFF baby after viewing GFF website, come hell or high water. Knowing NOTHING of breeding and very little of warmbloods (other than knowing they are the latest and greatest fads of the english disciplines) she immediately began to believe that all offspring from GFF was the best of the best, when it came to purchasing a hunter prospect. She saw the USEF stats, the fancy website, the prof. photos of stallions, broodmares, foals, etc.) and was INSTANTLY hooked.
2.) Coming from a blue-collar, poor family, while trying to catch-ride her way to the top of a very snobby, exclusive, small-minded equine community she came to the conclusion that purchasing a well-bred wb would be the only way she could gain any respect in such an elitest environment.
3.) With all this being said she decided that the only way to accomplish these goals, with the budget of under $10,000 was to purchase a baby in-utero from GFF. She did just this, which takes us to present day…
Its been over a year and I STILL have yet to hear how this baby is doing. I never heard ANYTHING regarding the delivery of the baby, how its doing now, if it met her expectations, what her current plans are, where shes boarding it, etc. This is VERY strange, considering this girl was VERY vocal (often to a tacky fault) about any of her equine endevors, that she considered to be successful. This leads me to believe that something may have gone wrong. I just e-mailed her a couple mins. ago, asking how everything is going with her GFF colt, after I read this thread. I mentioned nothing about this thread; I simply asked how things were.
I will soon find out what her experience was like. Depending on what she says will, most likely, help me develop a more concrete opinion. Until then, from what I’ve gathered, (keeping in mind I have a life, which does NOT allow me time to sit here for hours, reading all 76 pages of this thread) this is my opinion…
1.) Clearly, this woman has some AWESOME stallions, broodmares and foals.
2.) Clearly, she has been successful with these horses, despite whatever shitty things shes done to people. Does it make it fair? Absolutely not. success is def. not always fair. Will she get her just-deserts? maybe…who knows? Will she continue to be successful? Who knows…
3.) Has Jill done more bad then good in the equine industry? Probably…but again, who knows???
4.) Will Jill continue to…
-Rip people off?
-Hoard?
-Not provide adequate facilties for animals and/or humans?
Again, Probably…but who knows???
5.) Is there any part of these accusations that may be false and/or exagerated? Probably…but again, who knows??
6.) Is there any part of these accusations that may be true and/or way too understated? Probably…but again, who knows???
See the pattern here??? IN THE END, NO ONE REALLY KNOWS!!!
Again, I am neither demonizing nor defending.
I’m pretty sure even the OP SIN cannot ultimately make the final call. The SIN did what she felt she had to do, from an ethical standpoint. However, right or wrong she may be.
So, where do I stand on all of this???
Right now, I’m not sure. Like I said, once I hear back from this acquaintence of mine, I will probably draw a better conclusion. HOWEVER, in the end, what I think only matters to ME. And what YOU think should only matter to YOU.
Those who felt they had reason enough to alert and prevent others from dealing with Jill have already made their warnings clear. Its now up to the consumer and others who have already bought/sold from/to to do their own investigation.
My point in posting this is I think forums have a tendency to get too dramatic and gossipy. Think and decide for yourself. Don’t go by what a bunch of people on an internet forum think. THATS PART OF THE REASON THIS PROBLEM EXSISTS RIGHT NOW!
SOO many of you said that GFF’s website LOOKED very professional and legit! Therefore, if all these negative things are true then GFF’s website (online information) as a source of info., has failed you.
If, you never visit the farm, and the opposite IS true (GFF is actually an ok operation)then gathering your opinions from a website failed you!
Point being…GO CHECK IT OUT FOR YOURSELF! Go visit the farm, meet Jill and the horses in person, etc. By not doing that, I just recently learned all of this the hard way.
You make some good points, ridewithpride. Unfortunately, some people cannot just fly around to farms, so they trust that what they see is what they get. In this day and age of photoshop and other things, maybe we should not trust all those big beautiful farms. Tell you what though, I am currently across the country to go to one of these big beautiful farms and I betcha I will not be disapointed! Why? because I have done my homework. I know what horses they have, that they are currently competing and doing well, and have seen a bunch of candid farm shots of the barns, rings, etc… If you notice, GFF never once has posted farm pictures. Only posed shots done at the neighbors field. And I don’t think anyone is overly dramatic, they have just found comfort in others who share there burn stories and therefore have nothing to hold back. Let the truth be told! And let 'er rip!
Actually, many people really DO know.
Hopefully your friend will have good news to share with you, and then you can share it with us. I mean that sincerely.
But don’t be surprised if it turned out badly, and she didn’t tell anyone. People have said on this thread that they were embarassed by being conned by GFF, and so never told anyone, until now. Some of those people are contacting Equinedriver with the info.
If your friend’s excursion into paying $10K for a GFF inutero foal went badly, and she’d like to do something about it, be a pal and refer her to this thread and Equinedriver.
Runwayz,
Good luck on your trip! Hats off you for making the journey and doing your homework. :yes:
You make a good point…you’re right. Not all people can just hop on a plane and see for themselves. With my work schedule I am one of those people, and like I said, I have recently learned the hard way from not doing that. This is why it is now my firm belief that if I’m patient enough I will find a good horse locally, from a good breeder, that I can afford to travel and see in person.
Mardi,
I certainly will do just that! :yes:
I think this situation also raises a red flag about using some of the USEF “rankings”. It makes no sense that there is not a MINIMUM number of offspring to even be considered for the Sire of the Year Award. ONE foal is NOT an acceptable random sampling for any statistical analysis.
The USEF needs to review the process and change the minimum requirements to event be ranked in the Sire or Breeder or whatever categories. These rankings do provide a financial benefit to the owners of the horses ranked and to the breeders themselves. It’s a lot of publicity to have the horse or person’s name on the website and in publications.
Sadly people just see the few at the top and feel this has some reliable probability for investing in a breeding or offspring. With only a minimum of one - it’s a worthless designation.
The same thing happens with race horse stallions. One big horse can vault them up to the top of the standings. Jill’s stallions and the foals they are producing are NOT the problem however. I don’t know a single person with one of her foals that isn’t thrilled with their animals. They are not worth the risk of dealing with her though as there are many nice stallions with owners who aren’t criminals. The standings could never reflect that tidbit no matter how you restricted them.
I totally agree with Ilona on this. It is ridiculous that USEF rankings can be based on the results from only 1 or 2 offspring.
Will also point out that the difference with USEF and race horse rankings is that all the race horses have been parentage verified. Not so with USEF rankings. :rolleyes:
I’d ignore ridewithnopride. Please see her latest thread.
[QUOTE=Ridewithnopride;6531442]
A close aquaintence of mine purchased a 2011 Redwine colt in-utero. Her name is listed on the website, under the “congratulations” link. Obviously, I am not going to mention who.
Before I go any further, I am not going to express ANY opinion of Jill Burnell OR GFF, since I do not know her personally. Therefore, I am only going to speak of what I know from this person’s experience.
1.) Said aquaintence decided she was going to purchase a GFF baby after viewing GFF website, come hell or high water. Knowing NOTHING of breeding and very little of warmbloods (other than knowing they are the latest and greatest fads of the english disciplines) she immediately began to believe that all offspring from GFF was the best of the best, when it came to purchasing a hunter prospect. She saw the USEF stats, the fancy website, the prof. photos of stallions, broodmares, foals, etc.) and was INSTANTLY hooked.
2.) Coming from a blue-collar, poor family, while trying to catch-ride her way to the top of a very snobby, exclusive, small-minded equine community she came to the conclusion that purchasing a well-bred wb would be the only way she could gain any respect in such an elitest environment.
3.) With all this being said she decided that the only way to accomplish these goals, with the budget of under $10,000 was to purchase a baby in-utero from GFF. She did just this, which takes us to present day…
Its been over a year and I STILL have yet to hear how this baby is doing. I never heard ANYTHING regarding the delivery of the baby, how its doing now, if it met her expectations, what her current plans are, where shes boarding it, etc. This is VERY strange, considering this girl was VERY vocal (often to a tacky fault) about any of her equine endevors, that she considered to be successful. This leads me to believe that something may have gone wrong. I just e-mailed her a couple mins. ago, asking how everything is going with her GFF colt, after I read this thread. I mentioned nothing about this thread; I simply asked how things were.
I will soon find out what her experience was like. Depending on what she says will, most likely, help me develop a more concrete opinion. Until then, from what I’ve gathered, (keeping in mind I have a life, which does NOT allow me time to sit here for hours, reading all 76 pages of this thread) this is my opinion…
1.) Clearly, this woman has some AWESOME stallions, broodmares and foals.
2.) Clearly, she has been successful with these horses, despite whatever shitty things shes done to people. Does it make it fair? Absolutely not. success is def. not always fair. Will she get her just-deserts? maybe…who knows? Will she continue to be successful? Who knows…
3.) Has Jill done more bad then good in the equine industry? Probably…but again, who knows???
4.) Will Jill continue to…
-Rip people off?
-Hoard?
-Not provide adequate facilties for animals and/or humans?
Again, Probably…but who knows???
5.) Is there any part of these accusations that may be false and/or exagerated? Probably…but again, who knows??
6.) Is there any part of these accusations that may be true and/or way too understated? Probably…but again, who knows???
See the pattern here??? IN THE END, NO ONE REALLY KNOWS!!!
Again, I am neither demonizing nor defending.
I’m pretty sure even the OP SIN cannot ultimately make the final call. The SIN did what she felt she had to do, from an ethical standpoint. However, right or wrong she may be.
So, where do I stand on all of this???
Right now, I’m not sure. Like I said, once I hear back from this acquaintence of mine, I will probably draw a better conclusion. HOWEVER, in the end, what I think only matters to ME. And what YOU think should only matter to YOU.
Those who felt they had reason enough to alert and prevent others from dealing with Jill have already made their warnings clear. Its now up to the consumer and others who have already bought/sold from/to to do their own investigation.
My point in posting this is I think forums have a tendency to get too dramatic and gossipy. Think and decide for yourself. Don’t go by what a bunch of people on an internet forum think. THATS PART OF THE REASON THIS PROBLEM EXSISTS RIGHT NOW!
SOO many of you said that GFF’s website LOOKED very professional and legit! Therefore, if all these negative things are true then GFF’s website (online information) as a source of info., has failed you.
If, you never visit the farm, and the opposite IS true (GFF is actually an ok operation)then gathering your opinions from a website failed you!
Point being…GO CHECK IT OUT FOR YOURSELF! Go visit the farm, meet Jill and the horses in person, etc. By not doing that, I just recently learned all of this the hard way.[/QUOTE]
Maybe your friend killed their foal too so they didn’t have to worry about it possibly not being perfect.
yeah, thats probably it Laurierace…:rolleyes: The all-knowing equine-drama-mama spews more retarded bullshit. That one was particularly amusing…:lol:
Anyway, all i’m saying is that you can talk a lot of shit about someone on these forums but it never does any good. It just fills the horse world with more shit then there already is.
Hence, I will repeat my point…
GET OFF YOUR ASS (and especially off stupid chatrooms), GO SEE FOR YOURSELF. If you don’t like what you see then don’t deal with her.
[QUOTE=Ridewithnopride;6533519]
yeah, thats probably it Laurierace…:rolleyes: The all-knowing equine-drama-mama spews more retarded bullshit. That one was particularly amusing…:lol:
Anyway, all i’m saying is that you can talk a lot of shit about someone on these forums but it never does any good. It just fills the horse world with more shit then there already is.
Hence, I will repeat my point…
GET OFF YOUR ASS (and especially off stupid chatrooms), GO SEE FOR YOURSELF. If you don’t like what you see then don’t deal with her.[/QUOTE]
Quote for posterity.
You are charming, rwnp.
To be able to visit a farm… the breeder has to be willing to let you visit… I am not sure this place welcomes people with open arms.
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