Dominant Aggressive Dog

[jump_lv]

Hi all. I am at a total loss here and hoping to get some insight from fellow COTH members. This is kind of long, so bear with me…

I own a 4 year old male Lhasa Apso, Tobey. (neutered). I have had him since he was 8 weeks old. I live at home with my parents and 3 sisters (ages 25, 15, 12). Less than a month ago he (i hate to use the word…) attacked my 15 year old sister and ripped her lip open pretty good. The events are uncertain, as she is the only one home and claims “she did nothing”, but she has a history of provoking and being relatively unkind to the dog, so we are just unsure what happened… just that he reacted. Then this morning, while laying in bed with my dad, dad turned his face to Tobey and asked for a kiss and (i wasn’t there at the time) apparently Tobey snapped and went after him, grazing his nose and left cheek.

Now, IMMEDIATELY after he does something like this, he runs and hides. It’s like he turns in to Jekyll and Hyde… snaps, then comes back to reality and realizes “uh-oh” and knows he is in trouble. These are the only two serious events that have happened; he has “nipped” before but it is becoming more frequent and serious.

My dad has always been rather laid back about it and makes excuses for the dog, but now that HE was on the receiving end it seems he realizes it is in fact a big problem. I established some basic rules; NO hand feeding, MUST be left outside during meals in the kitchen, NO playtime like tug-of-war, and NO Tobey on furniture. I have read that these are things that can knock a dominant dog “down”, so to speak.

I have been told that Lhasas are generally stubborn and hard to train, not family friendly, and can get aggressive. Tobey seems to fit the bill.

I would really appreciate ANY insight, suggestions, etc. or more that we could be doing to help get Tobey on track. if it happens again we will have to seriously consider putting him down or finding him a more suitable home.

Thank you in advance for your time and any help!!

[BetterOffRed]

I couldn’t tell from your posts if your dog was sleeping when these incidents happened.

My mother had a greyhound that

1. we could never wake her up by surprise. If you jostled her, nudged her, etc. while she was sleeping she would wake up like a tasmanian devil and attacked first, asked questions secondly.

2. You could never kiss her or get in her face. Some dogs just don’t like people getting in their faces.

In the meantime, you may want to practice the NILF training method. “Nothing In Life is Free”.

[Lazy_Palomino_Hunter]

[QUOTE=BetterOffRed;5562944]

In the meantime, you may want to practice the NILF training method. “Nothing In Life is Free”.[/QUOTE]

This. x1000

Has he had any training? He doesn’t sound like dominance is necessarily his problem- he sounds reactive, confused, lacking in bite inhibition, and possibly spoiled. Getting some solid training on him might clarify for him what his position in life is. At this point, and with his track record, you might consider working with a veterinary behaviorist.

Regardless, he has demonstrated that he is not trustworthy and that he will bite when pressured. Always keep this in mind when you are handling him, and remind others to do the same.

He’s a lucky dog that you’re trying to work with him. In complete honesty, if my dog ripped someone’s face open unprovoked, and tried to do the same thing again to someone else less than a month later, I don’t think I would be so willing. Faces are difficult to reconstruct, eyes aren’t replacable, and there are tons of sweet dogs with plenty of bite inhibition in shelters looking for good homes.

[jetsmom]

Dogs have a hard time reaching someone’'s lips, if they aren’t doing something stupid, like putting your face down to kiss a dog that you know tends to be aggressive.

If your sister has provoked the dog before, I wouldn’t doubt that she has taught him to react to having a face put down at his level, by biting.

Institute NILF with the dog (and maybe your sister, lol).
Make sure you are walking your dog a couple times a day, to get rid of excess energy.
If that’s a new behavior maybe get his thyoid checked, as a low thyroid can cause aggression.
Limit your sister’s interaction with him unless supervised. Your sister is as much to blame as the dog, if she is constantly trying to provoke him.

[threedogpack]

If this dog were at my house, he would have to earn .everything.

He would have to live in a crate when I was not training him and he would get 10/60 training. That means every 60 minutes I’m with him, he gets 10 minutes of training. The other 50 would be divided between on lead time and crate time.

He would have to sit before I even attempted to unlock the crate door, he would have to sit before I opened any door for him to potty and he would be fed every bit of food by hand. Every, single bite.

For you see, my dogs have a pretty wonderful life. They are fed on a regular basis, with good food and they have a warm, dry place to sleep with plenty of attention. Unfortunately for them, that does not come for free. They need to work for it.

In addition to that I’d start Training Levels with him.

http://www.dragonflyllama.com/%20DOGS/Levels/LevelBehaviours/Traininglevels.html

[Kryswyn]

Better Off Red - did your mom ever check to see if the Greyhound was deaf? If they have another dog to cue off of, they can ‘pass’ for hearing easily…except when they are sleeping.

OP, yes check for thyroid, also calcium levels. When I have a good natured bitch suddenly turn aggressive after whelping starting her on calcium supplements right away calms them down within a few hours.

Otherwise NILF program or Work for Food is a great idea. It goes without saying Pooch starts sleeping in a crate and is never allowed in bed again. Don’t panic, this can be a stage dogs Pooch’s age go through but you have to put them on a strict training program to reinforce who’s really top dog in your house hold.

[vacation1]

First of all, be grateful that he runs after a snap or bite. I’ve known dogs who would go into a frenzy of biting. Not fun.

Given that I am no expert, he doesn’t sound dominant to me. He sounds like a dog who becomes stimulated (whether by fear or by frustration) to the point where he lashes out, and releases his tensions, then runs off because he knows (as most dogs do) that dogs aren’t supposed to bite people. This is not to say that he’s been teased or that it’s just human error. He shouldn’t be biting. But he may just have a low threshhold for anxiety. He can expand that, but the first thing you need to do is stop his biting forever. #1 goal - he never, ever gets to bite again. Every time he bites, he learns and gets worse, and it gets harder to change him. So your first goal should be management. If he’s been biting while on furniture, no more getting up on furniture. If he’s been biting people while you’re not around, crate him if you can’t be there to supervise. This doesn’t have to last forever, but your immediate, short-term goal should be to get everything settled down and establish a pattern with the dog and the family that things are different - he’s being controlled, he’s not allowed access to people’s faces, he’s being removed from company when he gets agitated, etc.

[BetterOffRed]

[QUOTE=Kryswyn;5564105]
Better Off Red - did your mom ever check to see if the Greyhound was deaf? If they have another dog to cue off of, they can ‘pass’ for hearing easily…except when they are sleeping.
.[/QUOTE]

No, she wasn’t deaf. She lived to a ripe old age of 13 and had perfect hearing until the very end. She was a retired racing greyhound that my Mom adopted when she was about a year and a half. My mom, the family and the maltese puppy taught had to teach her how to be a 'retired racer or a house dog. She learned everything quickly and well, and was the world’s best dog but people in her face or interrupting her sleep was never something she got over.

[Megaladon]

[QUOTE=vacation1;5564122]
First of all, be grateful that he runs after a snap or bite. I’ve known dogs who would go into a frenzy of biting. Not fun.

Given that I am no expert, he doesn’t sound dominant to me. He sounds like a dog who becomes stimulated (whether by fear or by frustration) to the point where he lashes out, and releases his tensions, then runs off because he knows (as most dogs do) that dogs aren’t supposed to bite people. This is not to say that he’s been teased or that it’s just human error. He shouldn’t be biting. But he may just have a low threshhold for anxiety. He can expand that, but the first thing you need to do is stop his biting forever. #1 goal - he never, ever gets to bite again. Every time he bites, he learns and gets worse, and it gets harder to change him. So your first goal should be management. If he’s been biting while on furniture, no more getting up on furniture. If he’s been biting people while you’re not around, crate him if you can’t be there to supervise. This doesn’t have to last forever, but your immediate, short-term goal should be to get everything settled down and establish a pattern with the dog and the family that things are different - he’s being controlled, he’s not allowed access to people’s faces, he’s being removed from company when he gets agitated, etc.[/QUOTE]

I agree with this. His aggression sounds fear based rather than dominant. I would think if he was dominant he would “own” the fact that he bit by standing there and making the person get off the bed/couch whatever.

He is probably getting mixed signals from each of your family members, and therefore uncomfortable and reactive.

I agree with a crate–his space. Make sure your sister doesn’t provoke him when his in there, that’s his “safe” zone.

No more on the furniture. Walks like another poster stated. And make sure if you do the NILF, that your WHOLE family does it, not just you.

Good luck.

[Horsegal984]

He’s not a dominant dog. VERY VERY VERY few (like 5%) of dogs truely want to be a dominant dog, most however, find that us humans are so nuts that somebody has to be the boss! To them, it’s like a presidential election where nobody runs, so the last guy to say “not it!” has to run the place. Enter Tobey, who sounds more like he’s on the verge of a nervous breakdown than running the show. So in my house this is how things changed when we started having behavior issues( and we’re still working on it!)

1. First of all, set a deadline date, like we have to see signifigant improvement in 30, 60, 90 days or it’s time to accept this isn’t going to work.

2. NILIF!! Best program ever to help reset a dogs idea of pack order

3. Limit freedom in the house, Tobey can only go into rooms with your prmission, because a higher ranking member controls movements of the lower.

4. ABSOLUTELY no furniture, and any dog beds can and will be taken away at your chosing, he has no personal space.

5. Come mealtimes, make his food, then put it on the counter and make him wait until after all humans have finished dinner to put his bowl down. He still has to sit/ work for it though

6. Any doorways/stairs/narrow walkways you go first, Tobey must follow behind. And if he’s infront of you, or lying in a doorway/space you need to move through make him get up and move instead of stepping over. while we might think it’s just where a pup chose to lie, it’s another sign of control, you only get to step over if he ALLOWS you to!

7. Keep a short 3-4foot leash or light line attached to Tobey at all times he is out of his crate, to help give you better control.

8. Teach Tobey a place command, and instruct everybody it’s like his crate, when he is in place nobody touches or bothers him!

and finally, or really first, take the work “nipping” out of your vocabulary. A nip needs to be treated as a bite, esp since he has shown now that he has no issue with inflicting a much more serious injury. If every dog who was prone to “nipping” was treated like a biter it would stop a lot more serious bites from occuring. An while I certainly agree that a lot of medical issues can cause behavioral changes I suspect this is not the case for Tobey, since he is a long term nipper, he has just escalated his behavior since the humans he lives with aren’t respecting the rules he’s tried to establish with nipping

Katherine
Vet Tech

[dalpal]

[QUOTE=BetterOffRed;5562944]
I couldn’t tell from your posts if your dog was sleeping when these incidents happened.

My mother had a greyhound that

1. we could never wake her up by surprise. If you jostled her, nudged her, etc. while she was sleeping she would wake up like a tasmanian devil and attacked first, asked questions secondly.

2. You could never kiss her or get in her face. Some dogs just don’t like people getting in their faces.

In the meantime, you may want to practice the NILF training method. “Nothing In Life is Free”.[/QUOTE]

Yep…do not get in a dog’s face. I don’t care how sweet they are…that is just asking for trouble. If this is the only thing that sets off your dog…that’s easily remedied…just respect that he doesn’t want you in his face.

[grayarabpony]

People make things with dogs way too complicated. If a dog bit me in the face he’d be in a world of hurt.

Dogs are always social climbing and need to be put in their place when needed.

[CelticReinRescue]

I second NILF training. I own Rotties and this is a MUST!

I also own 2 Chihuahuas, who can have the same ‘small dog syndrome’ temperaments. The little ones are so small and adorable and people have a tendancy to baby them and treat them completely differently then they’d treat a large dog.

Whatever you wouldn’t allow a 100 lb. dog to get away with, you can not let your little 10 lb.er get away with either.

Good luck - I know it’s hard. I really have to force myself not to let the peanuts get away with murder!

[HydroPHILE]

Besides the excellent advice on NILF, when was the last time your dog was taken for an overall check-up by a Veterinarian? Vision test?

Yeah - his snaps sound like fear snaps, but they also sound like startled snaps. Some dogs with impaired vision will often snap at people/things because they move quickly, and they can’t see them as well.

[threedogpack]

[QUOTE=grayarabpony;5568029]
People make things with dogs way too complicated. If a dog bit me in the face he’d be in a world of hurt.

Dogs are always social climbing and need to be put in their place when needed.[/QUOTE]

Uhhhh no. Just no. Dogs aren’t always social climbing. In fact part of the hierarchy of a stable pack is that everyone is pretty content with the position where they are.

[SMF11]

Besides all this good advice, Tufts Vet School has an email service where you can have a consultation with an animal behaviorist. I’ve used them twice, with cat issues, and found the advice spot on, and it solved the problem both times. They lay out each step you take and are very clear.

[wishnwell]

I’m not going to read through all the posts here but I’m guessing you have some good advice. What I can tell you ( and not saying this is the case ) Sounds like both times the face was close to the dog…a dog does not relate to snuggling, and “kissing” like people do. A dog actually will consider getting close to his face a threat. So, that’s a no no. Also, the dog is on the bed, I know some dogs can be on furniture and be fine but many don’t. If they are up on anything that is of equal or higher height to you, they feel equal if not dominant. I would return the dog to the floor and/or crate. He needs to earn his right to most everything…Dogs are not people and should not be treated as such. You can still treat him very well without making him another child in the house and he’ll be fine. He’ll adjust.
Also unfortunately sounds like your sister can’t be alone with the dog. You can’t blame a dog that’s been provoked. But also with any behavioral issues you should first rule out any health issues that could explain the behavior.
Good luck!

[katrgiddens]

WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO SALE HIM? he’s exactly the kind of dog i am looking for …dogs of his nature, with a little TLC, make amazing guard dogs and are very loyal. he just needs discipline and i wouldnt reccomend training him very harshly nor by standards opposite of your personality. dogs adapt personalities of their owners at some level… you must be a somewhat dominent person… don’t let him know he has control have enough control over your dog so that he knows who his master is… speak with a stern voice when neccessary and show love and kindness when he is acting like you want him to when he has done something to upset you or frustrate you dont mix up “he is in trouble” with “Id rather you not do that”

[LauraKY]

I wouldn’t be selling to a greenie with one post. Dog fighting maybe?

I had the same trouble with my cocker spaniel. She was finally diagnosed with Lyme disease. Once treated she was much better, but we figured out she was having petit mal seizures. She would stare off into the distance and when she was starting to come to, she would freak out. According to my sister, who has epilepsy, that’s what happens when she’s coming out of a seizure…she has no idea where she is or who anyone is.

We found out that chemicals set it off for the dog…household and lawn chemicals.

[katrgiddens]

one post makes me a dogfighter …sure… in aspect if you cant handle the dog nor your family members with health problems then you shouldnt have the dog period …end of story…you should try different breeds and if you want to sell the dog id love to buy it thats why they have background checks and such… youre right i wouldnt sell my dog to just ayone …offer still open