Dominant Horse Behavior

Hey everyone,

I’m looking for some advice for handling my very dominant KWPN filly. Some background info:

I bought her last August as a 2-year old. She is now coming 3 in April and very high energy. She has been out of work due to her age (we had her on a 6-week program in October for her initial backing), so has plenty of energy to spare. She is also very dominant around other horses (she leads the heard in her mares only paddock, no one really messes with her) and people. I often find she just has a lack of respect in general.

During the time when she was in work, we did plenty of ground work. She was fantastic in-hand, understood what was her space and my space, knew when and how to back-up, etc. Essentially, I remember her having a lot more respect for me. We did a lot of those “Parelli” themed games to keep her brain working (she is a VERY smart mare). This helped lots under saddle, she respected all of the aids and was only under saddle for 5ish days before taking her back out of work.

Since then though, we haven’t had as much time to do similar work. We only have one indoor that runs lessons until ~8:30pm, so we don’t exactly have the space (or daylight) to keep up with the ground work. Since then, she’s back to being rude and pushy. She will run out of her stall at any opportunity (even when there’s grain involved), for myself, my trainer and the barn staff. She’s a pain in the a** to lead and gets excited, but I also use the excuse that she’s not in work. I’ve started shooing her into a corner of her stall in order to suppress the running out behavior, and I decide when to approach her to take her out, but I wanted to make sure this was the appropriate way to deal. I’ve gotten advice from my trainer, barn mates, etc. and at times it is very overwhelming to know which method to deal with the dominance.

Does anyone have any advice for dealing with a dominant youngster or this particular situation? I also don’t want to inflict any sort of fear in her, but I know there is a fine line between fear and respect. Any advice is appreciated.

Get her back in groundwork, some round pen lessons so you make her feet to let her know you’re number one and she’s number two in the pecking order. I’d recommend looking up some Warwick Schiller or Clinton Anderson training videos for dealing with a disrespectful horse.

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A “dominant” personality in a horse is the best to work with (IMO), because they have the self confidence to make them brave. And a horse who is confident and brave is way easier to make into a great horse than one who is subservient and easily frightened, low in the pecking order, and has a lack of self worth and self confidence from a lifetime of being low on the social scale. But the human must be worthy enough to still be on top of the pecking order, to earn the respect of a dominant horse. You have to be that person.

Manipulate the environment to suit your goals. If the horse runs out of the stall when you enter to avoid you, close the door in advance from the outside to remove that option. If she is a “pain in the ass” to lead, she is not yet halter broke… that is, she does not yield to pressure. You need to use a tool to make yourself more powerful in this situation. Iron halter works well, releases pressure instantly, and the horse understands this immediately, which gives you the opportunity to give praise and reward (which is what you are looking to do, your goal, to reward good decisions from the horse). There are other tools you can use to do this too, chain shank etc, choose whatever you want that you like to use. The lesson is the same, pressure, yield, and release, and reward. If she is not yielding to pressure on the ground, , she is not “broke”, she is not one that I would ride at this point. “Broke” infers that the horse is content to voluntarily put the input of the human ahead of her own opinions, thoughts, desires. This is a conversation between you and the horse, where you are explaining what you want her to do for you, and the relationship between you. Being a “treat machine” will not gain you respect, but use of food as “payment and appreciation for good work done” isn’t being a treat machine. A horse will respect what is dependable in her life, what she understands, what makes sense to her. In that way, you earn his respect over time. Fail to do this, and she will either lose respect for you, or never respect you. Be that person, and she will respect you. Get this relationship right, and she will look forward to the time she gets to spend with you, and your training sessions. This is the goal. Your presence in her life is her reward.

Good luck, and stay safe.

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An easy way to help with the rushing out of the stall is to put a stall guard across (assuming she has a door and not a stall guard already). Open the door as per usual and the guard stops her from barging out. Handler can duck under, get a lead shank on, make sure she’s being polite, and only then drop the guard to let her out. It is simple to work with if you use one of the padded chains, and not a big wide guard with multiple clips, and is an easy way for everyone to be consistent in the way they bring her out.

A stall guard is definitely an option, but I feel like that would be a bandaid fix. At that point I would just keep her stall door closed until I was ready to remove her, and/or keep her back as to respect my space and the space between myself and the outside before preparing to halter her. This surprisingly worked well, as she stayed in her corner like a good girl waiting for her next cue. I just want to make sure this is the right way to go about this behavior.

^^^ This. And I’d like to reinforce what NancyM said about treats. If the animal does a behavior “for the treat” then when the treat is unavailable, the behavior is toast.

The first thing is respect, then submission. Treats are nothing more than a way to reinforce the statement “Yes. That’s the correct answer!”. To be able to reasonably and correctly say that to the horse, horse needs to be ACTIVELY SEEKING TO DO WHAT YOU WANT, and TRYING TO UNDERSTAND AND DELIVER. That mindset does not come without respect and submission.

Move the feet.

Also, you mentioned Parellli. Just ask what most people here think about Parelli.

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A stall guard is not a cheat. We all use them at our barn for every horse. Use the gear that makes sense. Honestly I just expect that if the stall door is left open any horse with any gumption is going to go exploring. Use gear wisely to make bad behaviour impossible and then reward good behaviour. Stall guards are the best thing ever because humsns can duck in and out and horses usually can’t.

From what you’ve said I can gather that you are new to young horses and in over your head with training. That’s fine, we all start somewhere. However here are the bare minimum of what you need to do

Ground work every day or else throw her onto pasture board for a year so she can run around
Get some help I RL with a good local groundwork clinician. They usually come out of Western world

Stop the Parelli stuff. It bores and confused smart horses

Start training the basics of lateral work inhand and do obstacles like tarps and poles etc in hand

If you cannot get arena time to work your horse then move barns as this is the wrong place for a young horse

Remember that every day is teaching her something. So if you stop reinforcing a behaviour she learns this is no longer an important behaviour. Horses test each other daily and test people daily too.

If you have decent timing you can clicker train her to stand back and be respectful.

All that said I love a dominant mare. The thing to remember is that dominance is situational not innate. A dominant mare is like the popular girl in high school in that she knows how to operate in a social situation on a daily basis. That means she is very attuned to body language and cares about it. A dominant mare can easily fall lower in the pecking order if she is in a new herd configuration and she will adapt because she understands how to survive socially. She will then happily be BBF or second fiddle to the dominant mare. I’ve watched it happen with my own mare.

As Nancy said above the more dominant horses are confident and happy in their skins. You need to come at them standing tall, holding your ground, and respecting their intelligence. Once she realizes there are clear rules to being with you she will follow them. But you need to be consistent. And you have to accept that you can never leave the stall door open etc. That said I can let my mare graze loose around the parking lot when we trailer out to go trail riding and I know she won’t spook or run away. But leave her stall guard down for a moment and she is off down the aisle for a look-see. It’s just her.
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@Scribbler thank you very much for your insight! You are correct in assuming that I’m new to young horses. I am under my trainer’s wing in all of this, and once back into “work” she will be on training board, but obviously I spend the most time with her so I’m really trying to capitalize on that time. I don’t want to teach her any bad habits or behavior that will negatively impact our future together. I only want to make things easier come time for under saddle work and actually have a trusting, respectful relationship with her.

I’ll definitely give the stall guard a try, she is a “peeky” mare who just loves to watch everyone. When she’s in a consistent program she is an absolutely wonderful mare to work with, I just feel as though we’ve lost that because of her time spent out of work. I’ll have to do my best to find arena time.

I have a mare like this. I have had her since she had 60 days undersaddle training, but she was not especially well-broke on the ground (or as much as her dominant nature meant she needed to be). So I invested the time and training she required and today she is fabulous.

IMO, a three-year-old without a job should not live in a boarding barn. The best thing for your filly would be to live with other young horses (fillies) her age plus a few old, take-no-shit broodmares. I think you will only imperfectly replicate what that space and herd will do for her. Again, please, please consider finding her a well-run “foal pasture.” IMO, the more dominant the horse, the more they need some regular and 24/7 horse socialization.

If you must keep her in a stall and in a boarding barn, she’ll need all the turnout you can get; very competent, fair-minded handlers who never skip a step in keeping her polite and in-line; and some form of baby work or a job so as to keep her from being bored and frustrated. At this point, I don’t think it matters what you teach her on the ground, or loading or line-driving around the farm, or putting her head down to accept bridling or ear clipping, or obstacles like tarps and mattresses and water and ditches (in hand), or how to go to a horse show over night, (BTW, I find that these dominant horses who also might be a tad insecure need a lot of experience going off the farm before they are rideable in public), or how to be tied in the ring while folks ride, or how to be ponied anywhere. Rather, the point of what you do with her at this point is to teach her to focus on your and to teach her that getting training from you is fun and interesting.

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I’m not sure this is right or that it would solve the OP’s handling problem. Rather, the problem with any of these groundwork clinicians or taking lessons from them/giving the filly groundwork training is that all of those confuse the means with the end. The lessons (for you, OP or from you to the filly) are useful at first so that you get a tool box, a set of standards for her behavior and the two of you develop a common language such that the signals from you can get smaller and softer over time.

But after that, and especially with a young horse, ground work should be employed every time the horse is handled. To me, groundwork and training starts when I open the stall door. The horse should turn and face me pleasantly, ears up but not walking into my space unless invited. We don’t do the next thing until I get that. And then I have standards about how she lets me approach her, touch her, halter her (from either side). We don’t progress unless I get what counts as “good enough” for that horse’s level of education on that day. And then we open the stall door (wider) in preparation to leave. I check back in with the horse. Has she moved forward? If so, I put her back. Has she pulled on the rope? That’s a no-no that she would have learned in our formal ground work section. And then we walk out, her waiting for me, keeping a loop in the rope, as she learned I wanted, always. If she’s attentive, maybe I throw in the detail of asking her to turn and wait while I close the door. Maybe I lead her down the aisle on the off side.

See what I mean? You and whoever handles her should be training her in situ all the time. It doesn’t mean that you pick on her. Rather, it means you slow down and teach her how to be polite in daily life, because she hasn’t learned that yet (and she’s young, bored and pent-up living in a stall).

It takes a lot of knowledge and day in, day out attention do detail to put a good foundation on a young horse. But that is money in the bank for later. It’s worth doing!

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Yes I totally agree.

IME our very good regional groundwork clinician teaches exactly that. That’s what I would hope the OP would learn to do. It doesn’t even require arena time. You could just handwalk up and down the driveway or barn aisle.

" You and whoever handles her should be training her in situ all the time."

Exactly. EXACTLY what MVP said.

I will go beyond this and say that you , (and anyone who handles her) ARE training her in situ all the time, and if she has some bad habits then someone inadvertently taught her to do that, and is probably REINFORCING that she should do things that way.

I would suggest that you either turn the horse out into a social/herd/turnout situation or put her back in training.

You don’t have to ride her, or ride her much just yet. You can teach her how to be REALLY GOOD at a whole bunch of things that will be helpful to her, and you, later in her life.
Walk over a tarp? Carry a flag? (Mounted, or while you have it in the air as you lead her.)
Self load in the trailer. Haul to small time local stuff where you are doing nothing in terms of showing her but she can be well behaved at the trailer, and walk around the grounds.
Teach her to longe well, not for exercise or repetition but so that she will go out on the line, walk trot canter or stop as you ask her to, reverse only when you ask. Teach her to drive on long lines.
Go for a trail ride and see the world. (Starting with teaching her to pony in the arena, and going out with a handler that is really good at ponying a young horse and riding an experienced older horse that gives her confidence.)

I would suggest that you look for a situation and trainer that are really, really good at young horses, good at installing manners, and good with problem horses. And that consistently make happy, connected and interested good citizens.

Some of these might be cowboy types. Cool. There’s nothing wrong with teaching her to follow roping steers around the arena while you ride her at a walk. If she’s the smart type, you’d better get her learning and engaging in a way that gets her really connected to her handler, so she feels like she is DOING something. Doing something WITH you. Something interesting. Otherwise it will be really easy to get her sour and balky.

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OP, with respect what you say about her internal states-- respect (or not) and fear.

This baby horse honest-to-God doesn’t know that when she’s not in a formal training situation, she must be attentive to your requests and do her best to answer them, all the time. She’s just doing what she would like until she runs into a person who seems more dominant and tells her No. You can build a track record with her such that she remembers that you always show up as more “alpha” than she. And she should be handled by people who also do the same so that she figures that basic piece of horse-civilizing at this point in her life and keeps it for the rest of her life. Just remember that she doesn’t know this yet and you all are installing this bit of education now.

Think about the “fear” you mentioned as being on the other side of that fine line in a different way. Unlike respect, fear should be a very brief emotion that she feels AND there should always be a way that she can find to lessen her fear quickly. The other unfortunate thing about teaching that abiding “respect” or regard for us is that we usually have to be come “relevant” to the horse by putting pressure on him, and that usually creates a little bit of fear until he figures out that he can always find a “right answer,” lessen his confusion, escape the pressure and make his world peaceful again. If we could become “relevant” to horses just by being nice to them (feeding treats mentioned above) that would be great. But this doesn’t usually create the kind of high-stakes situation that causes the otherwise independent horse to focus on the problem Right Now.

And the trick to all this is being very clear in your signals and slow or “punctuated” enough that the horse has time to think and to answer them. If you do this well, then you get something better that mere “respect” from your horse; you get her looking up to you for guidance. That’s because, over and over, when psychological pressure has come, the right answer which lessens it has always, always, always been to look to you to figure out how to please you. This is the horse that wants to be trained and wants to be in a relationship with you because you provide clarity, reassurance and, eventually, even some sense of accomplishment in the horse doing her job for you.

To be concrete about it and using your example of putting her in the back of the stall. If you chased her back to the corner of the stall, you created a bit of fear-- you got “ferocious” and took over the space she was in. She lessened the pressure by moving as far away as she could, but then she was trapped by the walls.

The horrific horseman, keeps “chasing” her while she’s trapped there and cowering; he really does scare her. And the next time he walks by, if she jumps to the back of the stall, he calls that “respect.” After all, the horse’s desired behavior, the one he wanted, has lasted.

The good horseman stops the pressure when she’s in the corner.

The great horseman puts her in the corner (and facing you) using the least possible pressure and then releases it (stops chasing) when they see the horse already on her way there.

So to my way of thinking, the goal isn’t fear or respect but, first, a release of pressure for the horse and, later with repetition, the idea that you will create pressure that isn’t so extreme that the horse can’t think. And training with you will amount to a series of puzzles, all of which are solvable if the horse just applies herself to them.

I like to ask them to move, but with a horse I don’t know or a young one or scared one, I really want to have their eye and not the hind end. And I would do this mighty slowly in a stall where the horse could feel trapped and have to defend herself with a hoof. I kind of move like a cutting horse would, or the way you would using your rope to invite the head of the horse where you want it, and your arm or rope as something like a lunge whip or leg, moving that part of the horse away from you. So for me, I wouldn’t want to shoo this horse into the corner, per se. Rather, I’d want to politely move the horse around until she “guessed” and turned toward me (and chances are, her bum will be in that back corner opposite the door). That’s the magic button that makes me stop and I want her to know how to press it!

If you teach them that “turning toward me is a way to release pressure (even though I’m the one applying it… go figure!”) you’ll have a horse that is safe in a stall and easy to catch. This will be easiest to teach in a round pen. You can do it at the walk. It will be a tad harder in a square paddock, but safer than in a stall. Once you have them turning toward you, back around to their shoulder (albeit about 8 feet away), and see if you can get them to follow you with their eye or even walk toward you.

All this is what Monty Roberts called “joining up” and you can see now why you need that if you want to walk into a stall with a baby horse who is making a bid for the door and might run you over because no one ever told her not to. She doesn’t need to “join up” for the hell of it or every day, on general principle. Rather, she needs to join up in order to begin to learn to look at you and read you all.the.time as you’ll want when she is polite and safe for everyone on the ground. And if she is “joining up” with you, she’s not actually making a bid for the door anymore. Rather, she is coming to check in with you about what you want her to do. You just made yourself more relevant than the door.

And YMMV, but I would not feel good about someone telling me to duck under a stall guard to go into a stall with a semi-feral little (big) baby. Nosirreebob-- I want to be able to see that horse and all her pointy bits all the time as my body gets closer to hers in a confined space. And I’d like her to see me coming toward her so that she can tell me what she thinks about that, and we can have a collegial introduction to one another.

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@mvp, unfortunately, I do not have an outdoor board option, so this is not in the cards for me. There are other barns in the area that offer it, but with no one I would trust personally to board / handle my horse. They are more “backyardigan” barns, so to speak. She gets ~10 hours per day of turnout at my current barn with 3 other mares and can also interact with geldings in a neighboring paddock, so I’d like to think she gets a solid amount of social time in a day. Also, we don’t have many broodmares on the property (one in-foal right now, and she gets turnout alone), and a of couple other youngsters (two coming 4 year old geldings) that are obviously separated in the gelding paddock.

Most of the handlers at the barn are very competent, but there are a few that I’m doubtful about. Ironically, they are the ones who have issues with her. She knows she can take advantage of them and thus they are the ones complaining about her to me when she drags them to her paddock. For the most part, she handles very well with me. We have a few “baby moments” in the process, but those are typically corrected, and we move on. No issues, and to be quite frank, she has never dragged me (since August, the month I purchased her). Can mares have respect for some and not others?

In regard to that, though, I’ve advised the barn manager to not allow those who are not competent to handle my horse. So I can only hope that she is getting the discipline required.

I’ve always been very diligent with her leaving and entering her stall. It’s her happy / safe place where the food is after a long day of turnout. She is, under no circumstances, allowed to move a hoof until prompted (when haltering) and when being lead in and out. It’s not myself who has the problem, here. More with the workers / handlers.

@Fillabeana, thank you for your response! When she was in her program, and even prior to that, we did all of those things. Every day was a new adventure / introduction. The mare loads well, with little to no encouragement. She also lunges like a dream, very sensitive to voice cues at the walk/trot/canter. I really don’t have any complaints about certain aspects of her.

I think I will look into bringing in an outside trainer to install some better groundwork while not in the program. We resume in April but I think because of our boarding situation, she needs more stimulation outside of stall time. We actually did a session last night, and I couldn’t be more surprised on how attentive she was and how she wanted to learn and perform. I think the foundation of respect is there, it just needs to be maintained. She is probably one of the most “testy” animals that I’ve ever had the pleasure of handling, so I think we have a long road ahead of us. I appreciate the responses! They are very informative and give me a realistic insight on what to expect and how to deal. She really isn’t all bad!

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One point about the Parelli stuff… this “training” method is for training people, not horses. Sometimes the people who subscribe to this stuff don’t understand that. The horses already know all that stuff, moving from pressure, reading body language etc, it’s the people who don’t. It is supposed to be used to show people how to interact with their horse in such a way that the human can access a relationship with their horse, notice the “try”, and release pressure. It apparently does not always work this way, as some of those who buy into the scheme end up making their horses sour and miserable because the humans misunderstand the point of the work, thinking it is to “train the horse” rather than to “train the human”. The sometime popularity of the Parelli stuff is in response to the “beat 'em up to force them to do what you want” method of horse training, which, of course, is also counterproductive.

This is simple “horsemanship” skills… the establishment of a healthy relationship between human and horse, such that the horse can be trained, and is relatively safe for a human to be around. This is why it is so important that it is done right. Your boarding situation seems to be suspect here, depending on others to care for your horse and handle your horse. The horsemanship skills of “others” are always suspect. With a horse that questions authority, it is imperative that handling and horsemanship skills of the humans are meticulous, not done in error. Some horses are more forgiving than others, some put up with horrifically bad horsemanship, and simply “cover” for the humans in their life, look after the humans. Yours sounds like she is not one of these. If you are “green” yourself with handling green, young and “trying” horses, it’s time to learn, and quickly. Don’t get a “trainer” in to train the horse. Get a “trainer” in to train YOU so that your horsemanship skills advance- look at this as an opportunity, not a detriment. And a boarding situation where unskilled workers are handling your horse is going to be counterproductive. Good luck!

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