Donating to CANTER

[colliemom]

[QUOTE=mistyjewell;4334028]
I’ve seen/heard first hand some of the gut wrenching stories about what they have gone through to try and save horses from slaughter and put their literal blood, sweat, and tears into trying to get horses safe, sound, and sane enough to compete with the increasingly soft market out there for TBs right now. It’s not to make a profit, it’s so they can save more horses and put them into good homes.

Do they get to ride and show some of these horses? Sure! But does that make up for the weeks or months trying to rehab a horse and give him his best shot, only to have to put him down because he has something you couldn’t see? No. I can’t count the number of gut wrenching stories I’ve heard about horses that could melt your heart, and be glad to know that the horses at least got to know what it was like to be a horse for it’s last few days, and have someone actually love it and teach it to eat treats before it was their time to go. It KILLS these volunteers. You can’t even begin to put a price on their time and emotional investment. [/QUOTE]

Well said, mistyjewell.

I for one am grateful for all that fairweather and caffeinated and others do and have done, since it brought me my current project (5 year old OTTB that was donated to CANTER MidAtlantic) who is coming along really nicely. I also know how hard it was to hook up with them due to their full time jobs elsewhere, and their commitments to other parts of their lives. But they still figured out a way to spend their own spare time to help find this horse (and many others) a suitable home.

But even the tax write-offs and donations haven’t been enough, since now CANTER MidAtlantic can’t afford to take in any more horses (other than DelPark) because not enough people care, especially the people in the industry who make their livings on the backs of these horses.

So, BYT, you can rest easier now since there will be fewer opportunities for the volunteers to have so much great fun and save so much money.

Sheesh.

[Calico]

I have been trying to sit in my hands but fingers are getting too itchy

Here is why Taxi is pissed off (to say the least! :lol: )

There are plenty of people who re-home racehorses who do not get any acknowledgement or benefits at all, not even tax deductions. I worked on the track and have personally re-trained and re-homed about 15 horses to date, and most trainers I know have re-homed many, many more - no tax benefits, no accolades, and with financial deficits. It happens all the time.

Then CANTER comes along and presents itself as a Rescue, as if any horse on the track is in danger of being thrown away. The “rescue” angle alienates trainers and other workers who are re-homing useful horses, usually via an established pipeline of hunter/jumper trainers. These horses do not need rescued. I understand that not every track and trainer and situation can be this accommodating, believe me I know, and that is where CANTER can be helpful. But it’s the horses that will never be useful again that need rescuing, be it in a big green pasture here on earth or in the sky – and, as far as I know, CANTER is not a Rescue.

CANTER is a good organization and I’m glad it exists. Their marketing reaches many people and surely has increased the number of horses finding a second career. But CANTER carries the shroud of a Rescue, and that’s not fair as it signals this is an “us vs. them” issue, and it’s not.

Wait, I just read the comment above that “CANTER MidAtlantic can’t afford to take in any more horses (other than DelPark) because not enough people care, especially the people in the industry who make their livings on the backs of these horses.”

Wow. There are plenty of people who care, but blanket hostile attitudes like this sure aren’t going to help advance your cause, or CANTER’s, for that matter. This is exactly what I’m talking about – lose the attitude and you might find you have a lot more in common with track folk than you think.

[caffeinated]

@Calico;4334617

Then CANTER comes along and presents itself as a Rescue, as if any horse on the track is in danger of being thrown away.

I think we’ve been pretty careful NOT to do that. Other folks do it all the time, but we don’t use that phrasing on our website or in press releases. And we try to make a point that we are here to help network horses, not to rescue them from the evilness of the racing industry. It’s hard to control that sort of thing with the world being as big as it is, but I do try to educate people that horses at the track generally have it pretty good and that not every horse that raced was rescued from some dire situation. I’d say most of the horses on our site (either the trainer listings or adoption section) are there because someone cared about them, not the other way around.

There are, though, a few horses in the adoption program that I would consider “rescued” because of their circumstances. That said, I view it as a rehoming program, not a rescue, and try to present it that way even though a lot of people out there would say otherwise.

I would also say, to the person who said folks “don’t care enough” and that’s why funding is down, that I think it is far more a function of the economy than a lack of caring. Just about every nonprofit out there is feeling a similar pinch right now. It’s not because people don’t care, but because everybody’s got to worry about their own when things get rocky (and the majority of donations have always been small individual ones, from exactly the people who right now probably are keeping the purse strings tight). It sucks, but the people who have supported programs like these for years certainly do care, quite a lot, even if they are not in a position to give right now for whatever reason.

[Jasmine]

She said NOT ENOUGH people care, not that no one cared. If enough people cared, there would not be such a need for an organization like CANTER.

Good for you for rehoming OTTBs. I’m sorry you didn’t want to deal with the hassle and pain in the butt of setting up a 501c so that you could take advantage of the benefits. How in blue blazes do you think CANTER got started? Do you really thing someone somewhere decided to jump through all the hoops and set up CANTER ONLY as a tax shelter?

I’m betting it was something along the lines of a small group of people like you who were looking for ways to make donating horses, time, and cash more attractive to people. And at the same time, promote the OTTB as the wonderful sport, trail, and companion we all know they can be.

[dilligaff2]

Calico–

I’m sure someone could pass along the names of the 5 horses that Canter had to turn down yesterday.

Yes, you are correct. People lose money on horse deals all the time without tax benefits.

Were these deals an attempt to not make a profit? That is where the difference lies.

CANTER is a Not For Profit 501c3 registered organization. Any money made is funneled back into the organization for rehoming more horses.

I have never heard one word from CANTER about them being a rescue, only that they get horses needing a home to people looking. As for the ‘Hostile’ attitude, you couldn’t be more wrong. Even when pressed by Congress during a recent hearing into the TB industry to talk about abuses, CANTER’s representative instead stated publicly that there are MANY good trainers and owners out there that are looking out for best interest of their horses.

[Everythingbutwings]

You’re close, Jasmine

I’m betting it was something along the lines of a small group of people like you who were looking for ways to make donating horses, time, and cash more attractive to people.

Except that the small group of people who took their time and effort to do it weren’t like Calico. They thought long and hard about what their individual efforts were accomplishing and how to do it better.

CANTER has never come across as a rescue to me. They are helping interested buyers find available horses and they aren’t doing it for pay, they do it for the animals.

[Jasmine]

It’s slightly ironic that this thread is neck-and-neck with one about euthanasia for all the TBs produced who aren’t useful.

[magnolia73]

Wow. There are plenty of people who care, but blanket hostile attitudes like this sure aren’t going to help advance your cause, or CANTER’s, for that matter. This is exactly what I’m talking about – lose the attitude and you might find you have a lot more in common with track folk than you think.

I think that they prattle along very happily with a good attitude, but the last 12 months have seen some bad, bad circumstances. They did not just open last week. Not every horse is in danger- I don’t think they claim that. Of course there are homes for nice sound horses. The standard “OTTB” flipper knows what sells, goes in, buys it and goes along. I don’t think they get inundated with requests to help crippled horses that need euthanasia.

I think something that is bothering Fairweather is that now the pool of undesirable horses has expanded from the permanantly lame to include sound, nice horses that are a hand or two shy of 16’2. Or a chestnut mare. Or have a rehabbable injury.

Are they rescuing at risk horses? In some cases, yes, and in some cases no. I’ve never gotten that CANTER is a rescue, though they are able to take on some at risk horses. They seem to more fill a role of listing agent/marketer. Fairweather knows a lot of people… that’s probably why a lot of her friends end up with CANTER horses.

To the people critical of the organization, what role do you want them to play? Do you want them to stop marketing the choicest horses? Do you want them to only list/take the worst off? What should Fairweather do when faced with a 16’2 bay TB that has been passed on due to a tendon strain that will be a great childrens hunter after 6 months of rest? Should she let them send him to the auction? Or should she take him for CANTER knowing she can rehome him easily? Should she call all her connections?

[NMK]

Calico,

Take a good hard look at the posts. Not one says we are a rescue. Not one. We are a re-homing service to the horsemen currently training and owing horses looking for new careers (a free service to them) and we take in horses in need (many reasons) when funds exist. We are not a rescue, and do not claim to be a rescue. Do we take in horses that are at more risk than others? Absolutely. Some were never at risk at all.

And we are all volunteers—no salary for any of us. Any funds from re-homing go right back into the program to help more. CANTER is one organization that will take in horses at risk, possibly unsound, and not easily placeable in new homes. We don’t pick the ones we “like” to come into the program.

If that was true we wouldn’t have to discuss the second topic posted below about euthanasia.
Nancy

[Trixie]

There are plenty of people who re-home racehorses who do not get any acknowledgement or benefits at all, not even tax deductions. I worked on the track and have personally re-trained and re-homed about 15 horses to date, and most trainers I know have re-homed many, many more - no tax benefits, no accolades, and with financial deficits. It happens all the time.

I’m sure if it happened frequently ENOUGH, there would be no need for an organization.

Further, if you are as methodical, I’m sure you could apply to the IRS for a 501©(3) status. It’s not CANTER’s fault if you chose not to do that.

Then CANTER comes along and presents itself as a Rescue, as if any horse on the track is in danger of being thrown away. The “rescue” angle alienates trainers and other workers who are re-homing useful horses, usually via an established pipeline of hunter/jumper trainers. These horses do not need rescued. I understand that not every track and trainer and situation can be this accommodating, believe me I know, and that is where CANTER can be helpful. But it’s the horses that will never be useful again that need rescuing, be it in a big green pasture here on earth or in the sky – and, as far as I know, CANTER is not a Rescue.

Again, I’m sure if there was no need for this organization, they wouldn’t be there, and they certainly wouldn’t be as busy as they are. CANTER touts itself as a networking organization – their mission statement is “The Communication Alliance to Network Thoroughbred Ex-Racehorses (CANTER) provides retiring thoroughbred racehorses with opportunities for new careers after the finish line.” It seems they have certainly “rescued” some horses, but for the most part, their job is to network to find them new careers, which is in support of their mission statement.

However, as you said – “not every trainer and situation can be this accommodating.” It’s undeniable that there are racehorses that wind up shipped to slaughter. That danger exists.

CANTER is a good organization and I’m glad it exists. Their marketing reaches many people and surely has increased the number of horses finding a second career. But CANTER carries the shroud of a Rescue, and that’s not fair as it signals this is an “us vs. them” issue, and it’s not.

So now what you’re saying is that in spite of the fact that CANTER does not market themselves as a rescue, other people believe that they are, and that’s not fair?

[Brandy76]

I agree. CANTER has done nothing but help, and I have never heard them refer to themselves as a rescue, but a rehoming/placement network with the only goal of finding homes for horses. I have worked with a couple of other “placement” groups that were not so honest. CANTER, in my experience, is IRONCLAD.

and another thing. Canter actually takes the time to instruct those who have never interacted with track personnel how to do this, so as not to waste anyone’s time, etc. In other words to ensure that it is a pleasant experience for the potential buyer, but also for the trainers.
CANTER reps do everything to promote a positive experience for all involved, to encourage more to participate!!

[kcmel]

@Calico;4334617

Then CANTER comes along and presents itself as a Rescue, as if any horse on the track is in danger of being thrown away. The “rescue” angle alienates trainers and other workers who are re-homing useful horses, usually via an established pipeline of hunter/jumper trainers. These horses do not need rescued.

I have never seen this attitude at all from the trainers at Delaware Park. The good ones that are active in rehoming their horses are very very grateful that we are there. We are all in it for the horses; no one cares who gets “credit”.

[Pixie_Dust]

No need for me to repeat that CANTER has never been a rescue. But also, CANTER as an organization has always been very respectful towards the racing industry.

I’m surprised someone in the racing industry would complain about an organization trying to rehome horses by accusing them of being a rescue when it is apparent that many horses coming off the track do need to be rescued. That or euthanized.

[Jleegriffith]

For me doing the track visits was a new experience. I grew up on the backside of Del Park my stepfather was leading trainer there for several years and racehorse were our life. There will always be trainers who don’t want us there but I have been shocked at the number of trainers who are thrilled to see a group actively working on behalf of all the horses and not just the “sound horses.” Let’s face it those of us who do resale are only helping a portion because we don’t want anything with vices, soundness issues, small, mares…blah blah. Those horses don’t get moved and maybe they still move slower on our listings but we are giving trainers a chance to find that portion of the public who might overlook those things.

One thing that I try to stress to the volunteers that I organize is that we are a rehoming group and that we support racing. I am happy when people don’t have horses to list because that means they are making a living and doing well. I would never pressure a trainer or make them feel like racing is bad and we are there to “save” horses. I know first hand these horses are well cared for during their racing careers in terms of good food, a nice stall that is bedded, vet services and generally good trainers and grooms. Yes, they aren’t show horses but overall things could be much worse for a horse. It is the after they are done part that I am concerned with.

I am pretty strict with the image I want to project to the track and the trainers. I don’t go in without asking, we don’t touch the horses, we pay attention to where we are going and for the most part if they don’t want to talk to us we don’t bother them. In the time that we have started up the program (at del park) we went from nobody knowing us to now having people excited to see us. They tell us about horses who might be ready to get a new home and things they think we can do to help them. I appreciate the open dialog and encourage our volunteers to keep an open mind and listen to the trainers. I want them to know we are there to help. No cost, no agenda and open and honest. I don’t give them false hope and many times I am giving my opinion about the best way to market a horse or how to move them the quickest. The free advertising moves a lot more horses that you can even imagine.

There will always be good and bad trainers just like there are good and bad show people. We service everyone the same. We get a lot of calls with people who need to move horses NOW. That is the most difficult part because there are sound horses that need homes that nobody wants because they are small, mares or whatever other reason.

[colliemom]

@Jasmine;4334658

She said NOT ENOUGH people care, not that no one cared. If enough people cared, there would not be such a need for an organization like CANTER.

Thank you. Yes, I said not ENOUGH people. I know there are a lot of people who care, and a lot of people who work behind the scenes, and for unknown and unrecognized and non not-for-profits, and all of that work is to be applauded. The point I was trying to make was that more people in the industry need to care (as is being discussed on the other thread.)

[nycjumper]

I’m still trying to understand what BYT is complaining about

1. CANTER claims to be a rescue? No - as pointed out repeatedly, they are very clear that they are not.
   1a) But even if they’re not saying that, some people might think it? Well, unless CANTER has some majikal powers I’m unaware of, I’m not sure how they are responsible for monitoring the assumptions of the general public except to clearly state what they are (See Point 1)

2. They get tax deductions? Um, yes - donations to 501c are tax deductible.
   2a) They get tax deductions and I don’t? Simple enough, go register yourself.

3. They get the best horses? Snork - that makes me giggle. And if you are interested, most of the horses on their website are listed for the trainer whom you/prospective buyer deals with. It’s not like CANTER is stealing them away from you. Alternately, build a relationship with local trainers/contacts. I don’t think CANTER has a non-compete clause preventing trainers from talking to someone.

4. Canter people like their job? Well, I don’t have a defense for that one. You’re right - I bet most CANTER volunteers enjoy horses and as a result of that commitment, they donate time, money and effort to helping them. I guess that is selfish

[NMK]

See, this is what I don’t understand. CANTER can actually help people like cabbie and calico find horses on the backside. I would think it would be a lot easier to look at the horses available on line than going from barn to barn on a hit or miss hunt.

So I am really puzzled by the entire line of questioning. The horses I have that were once CANTER owned? One had not been adopted in months because his feet were so bad, his ankles big, he was 15.1 and unruly. The other was a 15.2 stallion with all the “goodies” that come with that package, which required $$$ due to his age. I paid $1000 for each of them–and I was the ED at the time. There were plenty of other trainer owned horses listed that were much nicer than those that ended up in my barn. But the other two needed someplace to go, so there you have it.

And as for write-offs, the IRS only recognizes statements/invoices for goods, and not for any time/labor. So fosters can only “write off” bedding, food and hay if they have receipts for all of these items. It’s not a lucrative situation for most.

Do we like our non-paying jobs? It has its rewards, and it has its heartbreaks. One thing I do know for sure, those that are in this program are truly some of the most compassionate and altruistic people I’ve ever known. Somehow when you take the “profit” issue out of the equation, it brings out the best in people. Most times.

[FairWeather]

This is all really…uh…strange.

I haven’t finished reading, but thanks to all the folks saying nice things about CANTER. While we don’t help these horses for kudos and clapping, it’s nice to hear after a long day
That said, I’m not going to address BYT anymore, as they have now progressed to harassing CANTER volunteers off of Chronicle. It’s a little bit freaky actually.

Calico, I appreciate your post, and most of this has been answered, but I want to answer myself.

@Calico;4334617

I have been trying to sit in my hands but fingers are getting too itchy

Here is why Taxi is pissed off (to say the least! :lol: )

Pissed? Did they mention they were pissed? I didn’t see that. I only saw stick-poking, name-calling and inappropriate comments.

There are plenty of people who re-home racehorses who do not get any acknowledgement or benefits at all, not even tax deductions. I worked on the track and have personally re-trained and re-homed about 15 horses to date, and most trainers I know have re-homed many, many more - no tax benefits, no accolades, and with financial deficits. It happens all the time.

Agreed. However, My group has helped over 3500, and we take far greater numbers of animals than private individuals, and on the whole, are present at racetracks and seeing more animals than private individuals. Weekly our volunteers are at 5 tracks (just for our chapter).
Do you rehome horses for accolades and tax benefits? Neither do I.

Then CANTER comes along and presents itself as a Rescue, as if any horse on the track is in danger of being thrown away.

You will not find the word “rescue” on our site in reference to our mission. We are not a rescue, have NEVER called ourselves a rescue, and in fact have made that point very clear over the years. We do not believe that the MAJORITY of horses leaving the track are in need of any type. They are cared for, paid for, fed, bathed, rubbed, loved. That is not rescue.

The “rescue” angle alienates trainers and other workers who are re-homing useful horses, usually via an established pipeline of hunter/jumper trainers. These horses do not need rescued. I understand that not every track and trainer and situation can be this accommodating, believe me I know, and that is where CANTER can be helpful.

Interesting that you make this point, yet don’t know enough about CANTER to know that we’ve NEVER called ourselves a rescue, and in fact absolutely resist the word.
It’s interesting, if all of these trainers had “established pipelines” of hunter/jumper trainers, why would CANTER have assisted in the transition of over 10,000 horses? That makes zero sense to me. If there was no need, because, you know, those trainers already had great outlets–CANTER would have died. I cannot wait for the day our services are no longer needed–that would mean they were being placed without us.
What I have learned is that people who made their livelihood flipping OTTB’s for big money are annoyed at the prospect of having to compete with the general public for the “best horses”. I got those sideways comments a lot 10 years ago, not so much anymore, or so I though.

But it’s the horses that will never be useful again that need rescuing, be it in a big green pasture here on earth or in the sky – and, as far as I know, CANTER is not a Rescue.

But you just called us a Rescue? Here, I’ll requote for you–
"Then CANTER comes along and presents itself as a Rescue, as if any horse on the track is in danger of being thrown away. "

CANTER is a good organization and I’m glad it exists. Their marketing reaches many people and surely has increased the number of horses finding a second career. But CANTER carries the shroud of a Rescue, and that’s not fair as it signals this is an “us vs. them” issue, and it’s not.

There are a few trainers on here who have used CANTER’s services. Maybe they can pipe in and find out just how much we come across as a “rescue”? You are awfully hung up on this issue–which leads me to believe you have zero experience with CANTER, and are just making assumptions.

Wait, I just read the comment above that “CANTER MidAtlantic can’t afford to take in any more horses (other than DelPark) because not enough people care, especially the people in the industry who make their livings on the backs of these horses.”

Wow. There are plenty of people who care, but blanket hostile attitudes like this sure aren’t going to help advance your cause, or CANTER’s, for that matter. This is exactly what I’m talking about – lose the attitude and you might find you have a lot more in common with track folk than you think.
mmm, you are paraphrasing. If you are going to attribute something to me, then quote the entire statement.
With all due respect, thats not hostile, that’s reality. If you are uncomfortable with it, thats quite ok–it’s your right to have that opinion.

Again, I am happy to answer absolutely any question ANYBODY has about our operations, philosophy, handling of funding, thoughts on the racing industry–all of it. But I’d prefer doing it out from under the guise of anonymity.

[FairWeather]

Adding that I just spent the entire day shipping horses across four states, in my rig, on my dime, on my vacation time. I can guarantee you that my “Tax shelter” will not even cover a quarter the cost of the fuel.

On this trip I got giggling at my “top pick” of horses. I’ve gotten exactly two CANTER horses. One had severe DDSP, took two years to rehab atrocious feet before she could be ridden, and is among the most atrociously built animals I’ve ever had the pleasure of seeing. Her DDSP has gotten bad enough that she is no longer rideable and she will have surgery (that I get to pay for, and NOT write off of course) with the hopes that she can be a trail horse. If not, she’ll be a pasture ornament for life.
The other was a true rescue–I paid 300$ for a horse heading to the auction and he’s retired in a field after running over 100 times and winning a large chunk of money for 14 different owners. His job is to look adorable, cost me (NON TAX DEDUCTIBLE) money, and eat carrots.
Both of these horses have been with me for 6 and 7 years respectively.

Now, if all the CANTER volunteers have “first pick” of the “good horses”, wouldn’t it reason that I would have the nicest ones??? so funny, such flawed logic.

We sell the nice ones to pay for the broken ones. Truly nefarious, yes?

Now, where to put my piles of money

[system]

looking for OTTB

I am living in South East Florida. I have a place in Wellington to keep a horse and am looking for an OTTB that doesn’t have the will to race or a slow goer but still sound. I would love to give a good horse a new vocation. Any suggestions on who to talk to?