Dorm and trailer loading

[CHT]

We did not get the horse loaded.

We actually got him in well a couple times, but the but bar on the borrowed trailer was hard to latch and he would push back before we could latch it.

it’s hard to say if the dorm helped or not. He seemed less frantic, but also slightly unsure of his legs. I don’t think it helped that it was very windy and we couldn’t leave the escape doors open.

The buddy horse was a champ and stood quietly the entire time, but after 90 minutes it seemed wise to give up.

The dorm was wearing off and I questioned if it would be possible to load him up to bring him home the next day.

We did use the buddy horse to get the trailer owner’s horse in the trailer quietly and willingly, so I guess that is a win for the day.

I am frustrated by the horse owners failure to work on trailer loading for the last few years, particularly as we were close to being evacuated last year. I am just too tired to keep nagging clients. Not sure if the best next steps is to see if we can find a vet willing to pull his molar at our barn or to work on loading over the winter. I am not looking forward to trying to keep weight on him. Finding a trainer with a good trailer to work with him would be ideal, but I have no idea where to look for such a person. We have a lot of cowboy types, and “horse whisperers” that I don’t trust to not make it worse.

[SusanO]

There is nothing more frustrating than somebody asking for loading help when they have put no effort until the last minute. Horse training just doesn’t work that way unfortunately.

My used to be a PITA loader did not run out the back of the trailer but she would unload herself when you went back to close the butt bars. I think you are on the right track with the training but it will take a lot more lessons. I used a buddy and would just let her go in and eat, making her self load. Then when she was relaxed with that I would play with the butt bar and let her get used to that. When she was happy chowing down with her buddy I put up the bar. Then I left it up. This took days of lessons. I kept them short and did not push her past her comfort level. She gets tune-ups but I make the trailer a happy place for her. She had a bad experience at the vet when I was trying to trailer her home after I bought her but not horrible. Getting over bad experiences takes time.

[clanter]

I am not saying This will work for that horse. We have taken the good loader allowing the bad loader watch the good loader be loaded then unloaded several times making sure the bad loader is watching.

We have found horses do learn from watching others survive what they believed was death trap waiting to kill them.

Entering water was another biggie, those that had not experienced water thought any puddle was surely a bottomless pit until proven trail horse calmly walks through the water turning to tell the fearful one its OK see I made it through

[Angela_Freda]

@SusanO

Then when she was relaxed with that I would play with the butt bar and let her get used to that. When she was happy chowing down with her buddy I put up the bar. Then I left it up

Which is why the trailer used must be in good working order, all of it.
No doors that won’t stay open cause I decided to do this on a windy day nonsense.
The time to train them is with fewer of these upsetting variables not more.
Once he’s trained you add the windy day factor.

OP is aware of all this, I know

[Angela_Freda]

@CHT

Finding a trainer with a good trailer to work with him would be ideal, but I have no idea where to look for such a person. We have a lot of cowboy types, and “horse whisperers” that I don’t trust to not make it worse.

Please insist that if they do seek a trainer you have final say. You don’t need a yahoo showing up, attempting this, and someone getting hurt on your farm.

[fivestrideline]

If they won’t reliably work on loading (which they should), could they at least get the trailer in working order? Or even better, consider selling the trailer and getting something more appropriate? Doesn’t have to be expensive. Unless the horse is massive, IME most horses can turn around in something 7’ wide (and 7’+ tall). A 16’+ or 3 horse slant stock combo situation, with no back tack or center post, so the horse can ride loose or turn around to unload. Some smaller horses can do this in a 2 horse slant of appropriate width. Sometimes this type of trailer can solve a lot of the problems they’re experiencing, and I find horses tend to load happily in them. They’d still need to practice though…

I agree about not letting whatever local yahoo come beat the horse into the trailer. Stress to the owners that if there is an emergency, their horse will likely be left behind if he won’t load immediately. Maybe this will be a wake up call. Good luck!

[SharonA1]

@CHT

he needs a molar removed, plus he has a serious heart murmur, that is why he needs to go in to the clinic. if there was a safe way to do it here, we would. He is not a young horse.

I was just wondering (no criticism of the OP/the situation intended ; I genuinely am curious/seeking education) — what is the main source of concern with a heart murmur? Would the stress of trailering be even riskier for the horse’s heart than having the molar removed at home?

[Angela_Freda]

@fivestrideline

I agree about not letting whatever local yahoo come beat the horse into the trailer. Stress to the owners that if there is an emergency, their horse will likely be left behind if he won’t load immediately. Maybe this will be a wake up call. Good luck!

The destruction down south is a perfect, timely reason to bring this up, too.

[Pezanos]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCPjXgJP6sM

This works better than any other method I have ever used- John Lyons method included. It takes a lot of patience and time at the beginning, but once the horse “gets it”, they seem to get it forever. This method is especially good for the hardest of the hard to load. I don’t expect OP’s client to watch it but you never know. Good luck.

[Angela_Freda]

That was really good, I loved the low pressure, relaxed approach.
Theres so much one can learn about your horse and yourself by taking things slow and observing.

I actually did something similar wrt my horse rushing fences. We would walk and then trot up to each fence and halt a few times, getting closer and closer before we halted, never the same number of times or distance before I rode through and actually jumped the fence.
It really made him listen, ears flicking back to me, and wait to be told to jump.

Re video, Why use such a long lead rope that you drag on the ground, you almost or do step on repeatedly and the horse eventually steps on?

[OzarksRider]

@fivestrideline

consider selling the trailer and getting something more appropriate? Doesn’t have to be expensive. Unless the horse is massive, IME most horses can turn around in something 7’ wide (and 7’+ tall). A 16’+ or 3 horse slant stock combo situation, with no back tack or center post, so the horse can ride loose or turn around to unload.

Considering how rarely this horse needs to be hauled anywhere, a plain vanilla 12’ stock trailer would probably work just fine. It could be customized to add a little height, and it would still be more economical than most horse trailers. It’s a nice open space and the horse would have room to turn around and ride however he wants. This is what I use to haul my horses. They self load, turn around, ride backwards and come out head first instead of backing.

[poltroon]

@Angela_Freda

Re video, Why use such a long lead rope that you drag on the ground, you almost or do step on repeatedly and the horse eventually steps on?

With my new horse, who sometimes panics and pulls away, I found that having a longer lead rope is super helpful to prevent her from getting completely loose and having An Episode. That is, if she pulls away 6’ but I still have the rope (or can grab it from the ground), everything is no big deal. If she pulls away and gets loose, she notices she’s loose and then it’s more of an adventure, either she gets a reward by finding some grass or just kind of loses her head. I also tie her with a blocker tie with a long rope for the same reason. It slides and releases so she can calm down but never gets pulled all the way through.

So now I have lead ropes in multiple different lengths, which is not something I ever thought I’d need, but it’s helpful to have something longer than standard sometimes but not so long that I’m having trouble holding it.

TL;DR: with a horse that’s acting unpredictably a long rope gives more options including the ability to pick up the end further away from the horse.

We’re working on it but the change in place from old home to my place was apparently a lot of culture shock, such that an old and disclosed habit came back.

[Angela_Freda]

@poltroon

With my new horse, who sometimes panics and pulls away, I found that having a longer lead rope is super helpful to prevent her from getting completely loose and having An Episode. That is, if she pulls away 6’ but I still have the rope (or can grab it from the ground), everything is no big deal. If she pulls away and gets loose, she notices she’s loose and then it’s more of an adventure, either she gets a reward by finding some grass or just kind of loses her head. I also tie her with a blocker tie with a long rope for the same reason. It slides and releases so she can calm down but never gets pulled all the way through.

So now I have lead ropes in multiple different lengths, which is not something I ever thought I’d need, but it’s helpful to have something longer than standard sometimes but not so long that I’m having trouble holding it.

TL;DR: with a horse that’s acting unpredictably a long rope gives more options including the ability to pick up the end further away from the horse.

Yeah, I get all that, been there done that.

But this…

@Angela_Freda

that you drag on the ground, you almost or do step on repeatedly and the horse eventually steps on?

… is where he lost me.

[CHT]

No, I don’t think there is a concern about stress, more a concern about the tranq needed to get the molar out. They couldn’t even float his teeth this spring with a safe amount of standing sedation. Honestly though, I wasn’t super involved in the conversation, just that we were clear he does not load, and the vet was clear they would not do it on sight. We had another older horse go to their clinic to get two molars removed and although they did it standing, I think they benefited from the use of their stocks.

[CHT]

I am 90% sure she actually already watched this video. We do this technique for obstacle type training as well. Horse horse isn’t actually that worried about the trailer until he gets feet in it. I think he is quite confident that 1) the trailer means treats and 2) he does not in fact have to get in the trailer.

[CHT]

Ironically, they used to own a 3 horse trailer which they sold for the old style two horse (warmblood height). She didn’t like their old trailer because the dividers were hard to put the pin in (not slam gates) and because it was only 7’ tall and he would smack his head on the door when he got nervous and backed out. We can not get him to turn around in the trailer. Even back when he would load, he only backed out.

The trailer we tried to use was borrowed. The problem is the center post isn’t super solid, so it moves enough that the pin doesn’t quite line up without some Fidgeting. So it’s not broken for the owner, just not easy enough for us.

We have a 7’ tall angle haul, but the problem still exists that you are putting yourself at risk to shut the divider or the end door.

My hope was a bigger trailer we could put buddy horse up front with lots of food, then hopefully this horse would see buddy and smell food and be more able to relax…but he needs more than just the back two stalls of any angle haul for me to feel we can safely get him closed in. Preferably something with a divider that can make a box in the back, but that isn’t so solid he feels trapped…until he is. Even so, he needs he load reliably enough that he can come home again.

[luvmyhackney]

Ryan Rose has a good video with a horse that backs out and doesn’t want to stand in the trailer.

He Won't STAY In The TRAILER!

[hillary_again]

@OzarksRider: what are the dimensions of your trailer? I want something like you described, for this kind of purpose, and this kind of horse😎. I’m probably going to have to order it.

[Pezanos]

This probably isn’t helpful but I had one that rushed back off the trailer as you describe but if we took out all the internal hardware to make it a box stall and let him turn around and face backwards he stood calmly and wasn’t fazed by doors closing or trailers moving or anything. I don’t know if it was claustrophobia or knowing that riding front-facing would hurt or what, but it was a 180° difference in his demeanor.

[OzarksRider]

@hillary_again, my trailer is 12’ long, 6’ wide, and 7’ tall. Most stock trailers are 6 1/2’ tall, so I added 6 inches to mine. Both of my horses are 15 hands tall, so the ceiling is high enough for them. Also, my trailer is white inside to make it appear lighter and hopefully less claustrophobic.

Before I ordered my trailer, I made a template of the floor dimensions with corral panels (i.e., a space 12’ x 6’). I sent them in and turned them around so I could see if they could travel easily in that space.