Dorm and trailer loading

[CHT]

Boarder has a horse booked for dental surgery next week - has to be done in clinic. Problem is, the horse is absolutely terrified to be shut in a trailer. We can get him in, but within 30 seconds he flies back out.

HO has an older warmblood size 2 horse. It is new to them, replacing an standard sized angle haul he also didn’t like. This trailer has the under manger tack storage, so solid in front of the stall, and the divider is solid by the head. Escape door isn’t that easy to escape out of (we are all old) so a little tricky. Also left back door is extremely hard to shut.

Current system is to run a lunge line from the horse through the front, to the HO. A second rope from the front to around his bum. Using this system we got him in and out many times last Friday (no drugs). We did not hold him in, and did not try shutting the door.

Today we tried with 3/4 a dose of dorm. He didn’t seem tired, but we decided to try anyway. We parked the trailer along side the barn (same as Friday), but this time he was extremely reactive. He did get in a few times, and I did start to pull the door shut when he seemed to be standing quietly, but when it was only slightly pulled behind him he flew back with extreme force.

After that he lost it. Rearing even if we asked him to face the trailer. Trying to spin. Throwing himself against the side of the barn and denting the metal. At this point we had to stop, so we took him away from the trailer. I tossed some pellets into feed pans, but he wouldn’t come near. Finally we brought his buddy over, and his buddy ate out the back of one side of the trailer, and horse relaxed enough to eat out of the back of the other side.

HO will being the trailer out again Friday, but parking in a different spot and is just going to feed him out the back again.

We are thinking of opening the divider so the back is attached to the far right and trying to load like it’s a slant…so the stiff right door will be shut and we will only deal with the left door. If HO can push his bum over, it should make it less likely he will fly back unpredictably when we shut the door.

Any other ideas? He isn’t a huge horse -but he is pushy and not a horse that intimidates easily.

Past history: When they bought him the seller literally broke a broom on his butt to load him. My husband worked on him our our place (using cookies) and got him loading, but the last time he was in a trailer (10 years ago!) on the way home, the trailer tire blew and he sat on the side of the road for a while (in the trailer) and we haven’t gotten him in since (his lease rider died soon after that show, and we just didn’t even try to go anywhere with him for a while). Getting him in isn’t the issue, but he panics if he thinks he will be trapped inside.

[JB]

ask the vet about a few days’ worth of trazadone, moderate to higher dose (and you can start with a lower dose and add if necessary), give that 2-3 doses to see how he handles that, and THEN give dormosedan and see how that works for him

I’ve had to do that, and it was a total blessing.

in the meantime, work on the trailer training every single day

[Demerara_Stables]

That trailer seems like the pretty much worse case scenario for a difficult loader. Is there another trailer you can borrow to work with him and haul him to the clinic in? Aside from that, just work with him every day with a mannerism that says “I have all day, you don’t have to get in right now.” Lots of positive reinforcement and end the session on a good note.

[fivestrideline]

@Demerara_Stables

That trailer seems like the pretty much worse case scenario for a difficult loader.

Agree. Straight load, mangers, sticky door? That’s about the complete list of “this is going to be rough” criteria for such a horse. If the trailer is small and/or dark and noisy, that’s not going to help either. I have a horse like this, so I’m sympathetic (he’s got… history. And neuro issues).

I’d rent/borrow a stock combo (horse sized) or bigger slant and take the dividers out. Sometimes these guys are better if they can get on and off head first.

They can certainly blow through dorm, but the trazodone and dorm combo can work. That plus an open stock type trailer would likely be the safest, plus lots of practice without pushing him over threshold.

[Bonnie2]

Pay a shipper with a more appropriate rig. Use injectable medication from your vet, in consultation with whomever is doing the dental work. There is a world of difference between dorm IV, IM, and oral. There is no cheap way to do this quickly and safely. Best of luck!

[Montanas_Girl]

@Bonnie2

Pay a shipper with a more appropriate rig.

This. Hire a professional shipper with a horse-friendly rig and experience loading difficult horses. Ask the vet for the best sedative cocktail to use in this situation, and allow it time to kick in prior to trying to load the horse.

Do not keep trying to train the horse to load using the trailer and techniques you are using currently. Both are just making the situation worse. Once the horse has recovered from his procedure, find a trainer experienced in doing remedial groundwork and have them work with the horse to make him safer to handle and transport.

[OzarksRider]

@fivestrideline

That plus an open stock type trailer would likely be the safest, plus lots of practice without pushing him over threshold.

I haul with a stock trailer, but mine has a 7 foot ceiling (most stocks are only 6 1/2 ft. high). Can you get a helmet for the horse wear so he doesn’t injure himself if he rears?

@Montanas_Girl

Hire a professional shipper with a horse-friendly rig and experience loading difficult horses. Ask the vet for the best sedative cocktail to use in this situation, and allow it time to kick in prior to trying to load the horse.

Do not keep trying to train the horse to load using the trailer and techniques you are using currently. Both are just making the situation worse. Once the horse has recovered from his procedure, find a trainer experienced in doing remedial groundwork and have them work with the horse to make him safer to handle and transport.

I think a professional shipper would be the best solution for the current situation. I also agree that continuing what you’re doing will likely only make things worse. I don’t know if this problem is fixable, but finding a really good trainer to work on this is well worth a try.

This scenario illustrates perfectly why it is so important to do everything we can to ensure our horses will load safely. Trailer loading is a skill that must be practiced regularly, especially if the horse isn’t hauled often. I haven’t loaded my horses in several months, and this story is all the motivation I need to hook up my trailer and give them some practice.

[SusanO]

I agree about the current trailer. I HATE manger trailers. My first trailer was one because that was all I could afford. But as far as borrowing one - nobody wants their trailer torn up by somebody else’s bad loader. Especially if they come tearing back out on their own. Probably in this case hiring a pro is the best idea but the owner should discuss the horse’s problem before the hauler shows up. I would think for a horse this claustrophobic a large stock trailer would work best. They do make ones that are pretty tall, but I don’t know how easy they are to find.

I have had mixed results using drugs while loading and prefer to never go that route again. Sometimes it makes the horse worse and sometimes the horse gets so stoned it isn’t going in and nothing you can do will change their mind. Lots of training sessions works best even though they can be time consuming and a PITA.

Also - whatever drug you choose to use - you need to coordinate it with what the dentist is going to sedate the horse with. You don’t need any bad reactions.

[poltroon]

This seems really scary and I’m sorry this is a problem you’re having to deal with.

I would definitely be consulting with the vet about what chemical options they might suggest, knowing the the horse and the surgery in play.

Getting the horse confident with groundwork is where I’d be going, and possibly also using clicker training, ideally with someone very experienced with these techniques. You are overcoming some bad experiences and this will take time.

The nice thing about the clicker is that it can get past some kinds of trauma because of the way it overwrites associations in the amygdala. Feeding the horse inside with no confinement is also a way to help remove some of those associations… but of course you can’t feed a horse that’s sedated.

Good luck, I feel for you!

[luvmyhackney]

Hire someone with a big stock trailer.

Trazadone with a splash of Ace as a chaser about 30 minutes prior works great. I don’t have good luck with dorm, they seem to blow through it easier.

[beau159]

@CHT

Boarder has a horse booked for dental surgery next week - has to be done in clinic. Problem is, the horse is absolutely terrified to be shut in a trailer. We can get him in, but within 30 seconds he flies back out.

HO has an older warmblood size 2 horse. It is new to them, replacing an standard sized angle haul he also didn’t like. This trailer has the under manger tack storage, so solid in front of the stall, and the divider is solid by the head. Escape door isn’t that easy to escape out of (we are all old) so a little tricky. Also left back door is extremely hard to shut.

Current system is to run a lunge line from the horse through the front, to the HO. A second rope from the front to around his bum. Using this system we got him in and out many times last Friday (no drugs). We did not hold him in, and did not try shutting the door.

Today we tried with 3/4 a dose of dorm. He didn’t seem tired, but we decided to try anyway. We parked the trailer along side the barn (same as Friday), but this time he was extremely reactive. He did get in a few times, and I did start to pull the door shut when he seemed to be standing quietly, but when it was only slightly pulled behind him he flew back with extreme force.

After that he lost it. Rearing even if we asked him to face the trailer. Trying to spin. Throwing himself against the side of the barn and denting the metal. At this point we had to stop, so we took him away from the trailer. I tossed some pellets into feed pans, but he wouldn’t come near. Finally we brought his buddy over, and his buddy ate out the back of one side of the trailer, and horse relaxed enough to eat out of the back of the other side.

HO will being the trailer out again Friday, but parking in a different spot and is just going to feed him out the back again.

We are thinking of opening the divider so the back is attached to the far right and trying to load like it’s a slant…so the stiff right door will be shut and we will only deal with the left door. If HO can push his bum over, it should make it less likely he will fly back unpredictably when we shut the door.

Any other ideas? He isn’t a huge horse -but he is pushy and not a horse that intimidates easily.

Past history: When they bought him the seller literally broke a broom on his butt to load him. My husband worked on him our our place (using cookies) and got him loading, but the last time he was in a trailer (10 years ago!) on the way home, the trailer tire blew and he sat on the side of the road for a while (in the trailer) and we haven’t gotten him in since (his lease rider died soon after that show, and we just didn’t even try to go anywhere with him for a while). Getting him in isn’t the issue, but he panics if he thinks he will be trapped inside.

For the dental issue at hand, I agree with the other suggestions to get a different trailer, hire a professional, and have the vet drug him. Seriously. Do what you have to do to get the medical treatment done, fully knowing, you’ll create more baggage for him on trailer loading (that’s a fact). That’s alright - you can take the next year to work on the issue and undo the additional damange done.

I would guarantee to bet there are other holes with this horse. You don’t have a horse perfect everywhere else and only a maniac with the trailer; doesn’t work that way. Regardless, I would suspect that those involved trying to train this horse to load need to go take some lessons from someone who knows what they are doing.

You need to always set the horse up for success. That’s not the same thing as trying to stop them from making a mistake… but you want to do your best to put them into a position where you are going to achieve something positive, even if it’s only 1% better that day.

When a horse “goes crazy” like you describe (rearing, spinning, throwing themselves) you’ve gone way too far, and you totally missed when you needed to stop for the day. The goal should never be to get all the way on the trailer. That’s where a lot of people mess up. Because the trailer isn’t your goal. It’s about teaching to horse to pay attention, think, and at least TRY to figure out what you are asking them to do.

Your system of a lunge line and a rope around his butt is all force. None of it is teaching the horse to think and respect what you are asking. It’s trapping the horse. It’s going to cause him to panic. It doesn’t offer RELEASE and REWARD when he does do something right. That’s what’s missing here.

It’s also not about intimidating the horse. Yes, you do need to set clear ground rules and clear boundaries, but you don’t need intimidation to do that.

Bottom line is that this horse feels that he’s going to die when he’s in the trailer. No joke. So that’s why he goes into flight mode and does whatever damage he needs to get himself out. He has no trust for the handler. If you can’t keep his brain in the THINKING stage, you will not make any progress. And that’s why you have to know how to read how far to push the horse that day, and know when to stop.

Rome isn’t built in a day. And a horse with 10 years of trailer loading issues isn’t going to be fixed in a week.

[OzarksRider]

@beau159

Bottom line is that this horse feels that he’s going to die when he’s in the trailer

Yes to this. I was horrified to read that the previous owner broke a broom handle beating this horse into the trailer. The poor horse has every reason to think the trailer will kill him. After all these years, this fear is deeply ingrained and it may not be fixable. I think the only hope is for the owner to find a really good trainer to work on the problem.

[clanter]

@OzarksRider

I think the only hope is for the owner to find a really good trainer to work on the problem.

there is an option of finding a traveling equine dental service, we use one an annual bases

I do not believe trying to get this horse who has not been on a trailer for ever will work out as a success

[OzarksRider]

@clanter

I do not believe trying to get this horse who has not been on a trailer for ever will work out as a success

I think you’re probably right. If it were my horse, though, I would at least try getting a competent trainer involved. That way I would know I had done everything I could.

The traveling dental service is a good idea, if the owners can find one in their area.

[CHT]

he needs a molar removed, plus he has a serious heart murmur, that is why he needs to go in to the clinic. if there was a safe way to do it here, we would. He is not a young horse.

[CHT]

I am trying to find someone with a bigger/more open trailer, but no luck so far.

Over the winter we tried to work on replicating some trailer issues in the arena, including making a tunnel out of foam boards and tarps, and he was doing well, but I think because we would walk him through first, and he never felt trapped. It’s unfortunate we don’t have access to a trailer he can walk in the back and out the front…I think that would help.

The lunge line behind his bum wasn’t really tight, the idea was to get him understanding not to fall back against the bum chain and just feel it behind him so it wasn’t a shock. He knows to lead off pressure and will step in off halter pressure…be we obviously can’t hold him by force so we never tried. Unfortunately once he flies back out of the trailer, he tries to leave the area. If we can prevent him from leaving he gets better.

Today HO parked the trailer in a different location and just fed him out the back. he was relaxed again. Getting the vet out to medicate him might be the next best option. Really hoping I can find a better trailer to try.

In the past once we got him in and the door closed he hauled fine, but no idea if that is still the case.

I agree the trailer isn’t ideal and it is unfortunate the owner bought it without consulting me.

[fivestrideline]

People say to recreate the chute away from the trailer but tbh I’ve never had that translate. The leading/groundwork skills, yes, but the claustrophobia, no.

Walking on and off forward is really helpful. Good luck, I hope y’all find a solution!

[poltroon]

@fivestrideline

People say to recreate the chute away from the trailer but tbh I’ve never had that translate. The leading/groundwork skills, yes, but the claustrophobia, no.

I did notice once that I had a horse that was a little iffy going through any doorway, especially a dark one, and so I spent a lot of time stepping backward and forward one quiet step at a time through the doorways I had available. It’s an interesting test at least, and easier to add into the routine, even if it’s not enough.

[Angela_Freda]

@CHT

Today HO parked the trailer in a different location and just fed him out the back.

I wouldn’t keep changing where I was parking the trailer, in a different spot, either.
You’re changing the situation by not being consistent with where the trailer is.

Down the road loading with it parked anywhere you choose might be ok, but you’re way, way way down the road from there right now

Can the trailer be parked and stay in one spot, so the horse can do more frequent short sessions?

[CHT]

We couldn’t get a big stock trailer, but we did have a very generous offer of a nicer warmblood sized two horse with a ramp and chest bars.

Plan is drugs and we will put his buddy (one of my lesson horses) in the passenger side to hopefully give him some feeling of safety. We will try to load well in advance so we can get different drugs if needed.

I realize I don’t have a plan to get him home the next day…but that can be tomorrow’s problem if he actually makes it to the vet…

@Angela_Freda we didn’t move far. it is still near his pen/buddies,

@fivestrideline I think it would have helped more if the owner had tried loading in the actual trailer sooner. It did improve getting him IN the trailer/leading obedience.