I cannot for the life of me find a description of how the curb and bradoon are supposed to sit in my horses mouth! Are they supposed to “stack?” like tongue, snaffle, curb, roof of mouth? Because that is how it seems to be sitting in my horse’s mouth. If I raise the snaffle it pulls his lips and if I drop the curb my horse makes the fish out of water mouth. He seems to be reasonably comfortable in it while they are on top of each other. My trainer seems to believe it fits but wouldn’t really answer when I asked if they’re supposed to sit on top of one another.
JJ Tate has a good video on fitting a double bridle on her subscription. Maybe subscribe for a month?
It will depend a bit (pun intended, I guess?) on the types of bits, and the horse’s conformation and preferences. Generally, I try to have the bradoon sit just above the curb when it’s in the horse’s mouth, not overlapping. In the handful of horse’s I’ve fitted doubles too, I tended to do this by adjusting the curb to be a bit lower than a typical snaffle, and the bradoon a smidge higher. You’ll typically want to see ~ one more corner lip wrinkles than usual (but this is an imprecise marker since corner lip wrinkles vary depending on the shape of the horse’s mouth).
My general guidelines:
- On the tongue-to-roof-of-mouth plane, the two bits should not be stacked - they should sit next to each other.
- On the nose-to-ears plane, the two bits should be stacked. Relative to where your horse likes his snaffle, fit the curb on the lower half of that (closer to the nose), and the bradoon on the upper half (closer to the ears).
You do kinda have to play around a bit and see what your horse likes based on how they hold their mouth and head at rest, and how they feel while you ride. E.g., if the horse is constantly chewing, then you adjust and he stops, you probably found a better configuration.
Based on what you wrote, though, I would trust what you’re seeing. Raise the curb up until your horse stops mouth gaping, then see how he feels with the bradoon up above that. I think the lip wrinkle thing is very variable, and I wouldn’t automatically think 3 curls is too much - I’d have to read the horse. some horses have small mouths, and the right bit placement will result in more lip wrinkles. Also, if your horse doesn’t seem bothered by the bradoon on top of the curb, go with that. Some horses have more space in their mouths and aren’t bothered by that at all. I think a lot of people ride with their two bits stacked (whether or not the horse likes it).
Long story short - there isn’t really a universally true right or wrong way, the “right” way is whatever your horse likes!
2 Likes
Not an expert, but I was taught that the shape and fit of all the bits should allow the bridoon to slide under the port of the curb in the normal action of the bits. If that is what you mean by “stacking”, it is ok.
Tack fitting should be functional - if it is difficult to tell what static metrics are correct (e g. Lip wrinkles), check whether you can use each bit for its proper function and of there are unintended impingements on lips, tongue, bars, teeth, roof of mouth, the other bit, etc. Don’t be afraid to punch half holes in you bridle if needed. ETA or re-eval the size and shape of the bits.
There is one other solution you could try, though I will probably get backlash for suggesting it.
I use Fager titanium bits in my double bridle, the Mullen mouth Victoria curb bit and usually the Alicia three piece bridoon with a small roller in the center link. This is just for reference.
I really wanted to see how the horses would react to their favorite Fager titanium snaffle, the Bianca, in a double bridle. So I tried it with not so great results. I e-mailed Fager and they suggested that, contrary to received wisdom about double bridles, that my curb bit should be WIDER than my bridoon bit. She wrote me that the Fager people had found that when the bridoon was wider than the curb mouthpiece that the shanks of the curb bit interfered with the actions of the bridoon bit. With the wider curb bit the curb did not interfere with the actions of the bridoon.
It worked which the Bianca with the usual sized snaffle rings, and later on when Fager came out with the same mouthpiece with bridoon sized rings, the Alicia, it worked well too. So now my double bridle has a 130 mm Alicia for the bridoon and a 135 mm Victoria for the Weymouth curb bit for a horse with a 5" mouth, for a horse with a 4 3/4" mouth I use a 120 mm Alicia bridoon and a 125 mm Victoria curb.
I have MS. My hands are not guaranteed steady. The lesson horses I ride have always been ready, willing and able to cuss me out (gaping, head flinging) when they do not approve of my contact with the bit. I have yet to have any of the 4 horses I’ve used these new curb/bridoon width combinations on cuss me out at all. I ride under the eyes of my riding teachers on their lesson horses. They both approve of this sort of heretical change in the width of the double bridle bits because they like the results they observe with their horses.
My results have been good with this combination, so good that from now on I will probably always put a wider curb than bridoon on my double bridles.
The older method, with the wider bridoon, was developed for cavalrymen that usually had to carry weapons in one hand while the other hand had to deal with two sets of reins. Now that we tend to ride with double bridles with two hands maybe we should expand our horizons a tiny bit.
1 Like
