Double Twisted Wire Bits

[AmandaandTuff]

[QUOTE=eclipse;3262051]
What kind of riding & training do you do? I’m just confused because hunter/jumper riders (actually let’s through in dressage & eventers as well) would just call this a 1/2 halt. I’ve never heard of it called a “snap & release”! How do you teach your young ones to balance & listen if you don’t use 1/2 halts? It’s a very valuable aid in riding, and one that is very much used in the corners of a course as well as, oh about 4 strides out, if your horse is totally ignoring you and rushing to the fence (which can become very dangerous)! :D[/QUOTE]

Maybe the OP means the riders hands are moving too quick? I know for a half halt you shouldn’t snap your hands back and pop the horse in the mouth, nice, slow, smooth versus what may be a quick, snappy, dare I say, yank?

[Peggy]

I used one at about age 15. It was a fairly common bit at the time. Also used one on my event horse/jumper who was aggressively forward and was told by a well-known event clinician that it was totally appropriate in our case. You can see how unhappy he looks here, somewhat like RugBug’s horse.

[RugBug]

@Peggy;3262238

You can see how unhappy he looks here

You know Peggy, you really shouldn’t post pictures of that obviously miserable, abused horse. :lol: It’s just sad. :winkgrin:

[Ajierene]

[QUOTE=eclipse;3262051]
What kind of riding & training do you do? I’m just confused because hunter/jumper riders (actually let’s through in dressage & eventers as well) would just call this a 1/2 halt. I’ve never heard of it called a “snap & release”! How do you teach your young ones to balance & listen if you don’t use 1/2 halts? It’s a very valuable aid in riding, and one that is very much used in the corners of a course as well as, oh about 4 strides out, if your horse is totally ignoring you and rushing to the fence (which can become very dangerous)! :D[/QUOTE]

It is called a half halt if done properly…I have seen people just yank on the reins also.

As a barn owner, and not the owner or trainer of the horse - it is not your business until you see blood or other obvious signs of abuse.

[HuntrJumpr]

I rode an appy gelding in one, when we first bought him – he pulled like a freight train and we eventually worked him down to a snaffle, but… Either way - it absolutely none of your business. It’s not abuse, therefore I advise keeping your nose out of it.

[jse]

[QUOTE=eclipse;3262051]
What kind of riding & training do you do? I’m just confused because hunter/jumper riders (actually let’s through in dressage & eventers as well) would just call this a 1/2 halt. I’ve never heard of it called a “snap & release”! How do you teach your young ones to balance & listen if you don’t use 1/2 halts? It’s a very valuable aid in riding, and one that is very much used in the corners of a course as well as, oh about 4 strides out, if your horse is totally ignoring you and rushing to the fence (which can become very dangerous)! :D[/QUOTE]

Yeah but you don’t need a double twisted wire bit to accomplish a half halt. I’ve only seen this bit used in EXTREME cases of pulling towards fences, I used a waterford on a hunt horse that I had years ago because he was really bad about pulling to the jumps while out, but I never would have thought to use the double twisted wire. It’s not that I think it’s inhumane or anything like that, just a bit unnesessary in certain situations.

[Dixon]

Yeah – Peggy’s and Rugbug’s horses look absolutely miserable, and clearly aren’t performing well in such harsh bits. :lol:

Just to make sure everyone reading this thread understands: a double-twisted wire bit is LESS harsh than a single twisted wire bit. “Double” here is nothing like a “double espresso,” which is twice a strong as a single expresso. The double wire makes the mouthpiece twice as wide, which distributes the pressure over a wider area of the horse’s mouth. So although at first it sounds like “ultra barbed wire,” a double-twisted wire is not some kind of torture device, just another degree of severity on a very broad scale. In fact, there are thicker mouthpieces that have sharper edges, such as some slow twists, or “knife-edge” triangular mouthpieces.

[KristiKGC]

Unless the horse comes in with a bloody mouth I wouldn’t say anything. I currently ride my horse in a double twisted wire simply because he loves it. He certainly doesn’t need it, he doesn’t rush fences at all, but I keep trying to put him in another bit (simply because people think I’m horrible for using it) and he HATES the other bits. He’s reluctant to take any other bit when I bridle him, tosses his head, actually started bucking and just acts miserable with the plain old snaffles. So I’ve decided that to h*ll with what everyone else thinks of the bit. They’re not torture devices and people who use them are not horrible people!

Sorry this is long but I hate people who judge by what bit is used instead of HOW it is used. If they aren’t abusing the horse and didn’t ask your opinion then I wouldn’t say anything.

[Sandy_M]

[QUOTE=eclipse;3262051]
What kind of riding & training do you do? I’m just confused because hunter/jumper riders (actually let’s through in dressage & eventers as well) would just call this a 1/2 halt. I’ve never heard of it called a “snap & release”! How do you teach your young ones to balance & listen if you don’t use 1/2 halts? It’s a very valuable aid in riding, and one that is very much used in the corners of a course as well as, oh about 4 strides out, if your horse is totally ignoring you and rushing to the fence (which can become very dangerous)! :D[/QUOTE]

I’m a dressage rider (and former H/J, former eventer) and I would NOT call a hard pull and release as described a half-halt - at least not in dressage. While there are “strong” and “soft” half-halts - jerk or hard pull/release is not what I would call a half-halt (legs, anyone?).

Be that as it may, unless there’s a lot of jerking and screaming and whipping going on, I don’t see that there’s much you can do without the boarder wanting to leave or you asking her to leave - if that’s what you want.

I don’t like double twisted wire bits, and was able to control a 1,450 lb., 16.3 h.h. puller on cross-country in a Dr. Bristol. But that’s me and my horse, and I don’t always buy the “big horse, small rider/need more severe bit to control” argument, but unless someone is obviously abusive it’s NOMB. I would think that unless the girl’s exceptional, her hands are probably not all that educated, but still… an MYOB situation.

[Dirty_Little_Secret]

Rugbug
I must be getting tired because when I first looked at your picture I went, ‘wow that appy really is over jumping that crossrail- wonder why she’s jumping at such an angle, huh…?’ and then I realized there was another jump in that shot… OH DEAR!!! and yes, it’s obvious your horse is miserable.

[system]

I do have to say that I surpirsed that people have gotten touchy here about this topic. As some one questioned my experience as a rider I will clarify - I grew up on the racetrack with my mom who was an exercise rider, I showed hunters for a long time and then moved onto eventing whre i have competed through advanced and have used a twisted gag on 17.1H percheronX so we could slow down coming into fences. I am currently schooling my Dutch mare at 4th level - overall about 35 yrs of riding experiennce. The pull release I am witnessing is not a half halt or i would have called it that. As far as losing money over what i believe in, that I am willing to do. If you are inhorses for money you should get your head examined - I have a semi private facility and I work full time, i currently have 4 horses in training with me (2 are very lovely young hunter prospects) and I do ride the one i speak of. I believe in “mind your own business” but not all the time - the line is the questionable part and that is what i was looking for in this post. Thank you very much and now i have to go do nite check and check on the momma to be!

[lonewolf]

Well, for what its worth, from the sounds of it she is using the bit in a way that I consider to be correct. In my mind, you put a harsh bit like that on for a time to get the horse’s attention and to drive the message home that when rider pulls, horse yields. When horse yields, he is rewarded by a loose rein. Pulling hard and then dropping will help to teach the horse to carry himself, without hanging on the rider’s hands and being constantly heavy.

It isn’t my favorite bit, but it isn’t a medieval torture device unless put in the truly wrong hands.

[grandprixjump]

Appy’s, Appy’s, Appy’s

Sorry I don’t have any pics available here, but I used to ride a 14.2 hand Appy mare that thought she could jump Grand Prix, And might have been able to. She won every jumper class she was in, if rider didn’t make an error. Very Strong, Very go to the jump. And we have a pic of her EARS forward completely, and shoes tucked AGAINST the girth flat.
The fun thing about this mare was when she was at her prime, App shows Calcutta’d the jumpers, the first show she sold to my dad for like a quarter (yes, $.25) the second show cost like a dollar, most people said the first was a fluke, after that we couldn’t afford to buy her.

[Appsolute]

Hum…

Maybe it is a difference in “schools” of thought? I spent years as a working student in both h/j and event barns.

Never saw a wire bit in the event barn, but saw a number in the h/j barn. For one, twisted bits aren’t allowed in dressage, so aren’t really a “go to” bit for eventers.

Also… I don’t think a twisted wire bit is one that you would use when your trying to ride with contact. In dressage, where you ride with contact, you want the horse to be able to accept that contact. Twisted wire isn’t very conducive for this.

And “half halts” again, sounds like different schools of thought. If you are riding with a connection, a half halt is more a manner of closing your fingers tighter, and it is more of a change in your body, how your seat follows etc. You shouldn’t see a huge movements from the hands.

From what was described, it sounds more like this girl is popping the horse in the mouth, to get him off her hands, then dropping him again, into a very light, or non-existent contact.

[pleasedaspunch]

I ride my horse is a d-ring double twisted wire. Not all the time sometimes I ride him in a corkscrew but it is simply because his mouth is very dull from the previous owner. I have a very soft hand and he goes wonderfully in the bit, but it also gives me that needed leverage when his TB motor kicks in as well. Obviously hes still a happy camper:yes:http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2310076450064985027iCLFIp

[Giddy-up]

@eventmom;3261984

I have no education on the bit, so can’t speak to that, but as a barn owner, I sure think it is my business when and if I believe someone is mistreating a horse on my property.
I would never tolerate abuse of an animal on my land, by a trainer, owner, or anybody else.
Yep, I would be happy to loose the money on it.

While I understand it’s your barn & you can make whatever rules you want, I have to wonder where do you stop then?? What bits or tack are acceptable to use? If I spank my horse, is that allowed? How much or to what degree can I spank him? Are you upfront with potential boarders as to what you allow or don’t allow?

Do you have in your boarding contract that you (the BO) can decide what is acceptable or not (behavior, tack, discipline, etc…) & be able to evict boarders from that??

I am just curious eventmom & not trying to single you out–you were just the first BO to reply back.

[Just_My_Style]

Since you own the barn, it can be interpreted as your business. If it were me and it was bothering me, I would pull the trainer aside and ask a few questions. Since they are being allowed to use your facility to make money, they owe it to you to at least discuss it. Honestly, I used the same bit back in the day when hunter courses were on an outside course. I know, many moons ago. My normally quiet hunter would turn in to Speedy Gonzales on an outside course under the right circumstances. I never took him cross country with out a decent set of brakes. And I was probably younger than 15. Not really a big deal, if used for the right reason with an educated & supervised rider.

[eclipse]

[quote=Sandy M;3262328]
I’m a dressage rider (and former H/J, former eventer) and I would NOT call a hard pull and release as described a half-halt - at least not in dressage. While there are “strong” and “soft” half-halts - jerk or hard pull/release is not what I would call a half-halt (legs, anyone?)./quote]

Actually I agree with you, but when I quoted the OP asking what she called “snap and release” it was because she didn’t really explain WHAT she was seeing. We don’t know that this rider isn’t using her leg…the op didn’t say that, just said a “snap & release” which I’ve never heard of! If she’d said she was jerking AND pulling at the horses mouth without using any leg then, I think, she may of got some very different responses about what proper leg TO rein riding is! I think we are all in agreement though, that UNLESS you see obvious abuse it’s not your business and many many horses go around quite happily in bits that we wouldn’t think they would!

[RugBug]

@Dirty Little Secret;3262903

Rugbug
I must be getting tired because when I first looked at your picture I went, ‘wow that appy really is over jumping that crossrail- wonder why she’s jumping at such an angle, huh…?’ and then I realized there was another jump in that shot… OH DEAR!!! and yes, it’s obvious your horse is miserable.

:lol: Well, it’s not like she’s not overjumping that weenie vertical by much, either. :winkgrin: Silly girl. She was 20+ years old in that picture and not enjoying retirement…so my little horseless and hopeless teenage self got to ride this wonderfully trained DRESSAGE mare…in a double twist. She taught me how to jump. She also regularly dumped professionals on trail rides when she took off and decided that she didn’t need to stop. She never tried that with me…but I never rode her with an ego, so maybe she was just being kind. She’s the one horse I would clone if I could.

[KristiKGC]

@Appsolute;3263174

Hum…

Maybe it is a difference in “schools” of thought? I spent years as a working student in both h/j and event barns.

Never saw a wire bit in the event barn, but saw a number in the h/j barn. For one, twisted bits aren’t allowed in dressage, so aren’t really a “go to” bit for eventers.

Also… I don’t think a twisted wire bit is one that you would use when your trying to ride with contact. In dressage, where you ride with contact, you want the horse to be able to accept that contact. Twisted wire isn’t very conducive for this.

Gags, etc aren’t legal in dressage but I’ve seen more at the one eventing barn that I boarded at than all of the H/J barns combined. I don’t know what eventing barn you were at but about 99% of the eventers I know that actively compete have different bits for dressage and jumping.

And, before you say that horses don’t accept contact with a twisted wire, I would suggest you educate yourself instead of just assuming. So far it is the only bit I have found that my horse actually accepts the contact. I put a 14 year old girl on him last week and he was actively looking for the contact with her as well, though she kept a very loose rein as she was slightly timid about using that bit.