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Double Twisted Wire Bits

Hunter/Jumper
#41

I fox hunted many years on an OTTB that pulled like a freight train. The double twisted wire kept me behind the field master. And I agree that in a perfect world, properly schooled, a plain snaffle or pelham should have sufficed, but my horse was fast, forward and loved his hunting-no number of pull ups or downward transitions was going to trump the hounds. The proper bit is one that suits the horse and the job he’s doing. Maybe a horseman to horseman chat with the trainer could ease your mind.

I think that if the horse’s care is your responsibility you are right to ask the question, just don’t pre-judge 'til all the facts are in.

#42

[QUOTE=FlashGordon;3261743]
When my gelding came to me he had been ridden in a double twisted wire by his old owner.

Yes he set his head, and he stopped on a dime, he also reared and went backwards at any sign of pressure on the bit.

It took a good 6 months to teach him forward was ok. Another 6 months to introduce collection of any kind.

. :([/QUOTE]

I had a similar situation with a horse I bought. The previous owner rode him in a double twisted wire and spurs! The poor horse didn’t know whether to stop or go! He also had a rearing problem and it took a year to fix it.
Unfortunately it probably isn’t something you want to get involved in but I can certainly understand how frustrating it would be to watch anyone use that bit. I consider it border line abusive and poor horsemanship. I would have a problem with it too if someone used it at my barn.
Good Luck with that one!

#43

I don’t know where anyone can tell someone what bit to use on their horse. You can suggest but I feel the owner can do what they want, their horse. Their mess if it goes bad. A bit is a bit and they are all good and all bad in their own respects

#44

Forget the bit for a second…

Don’t think it’s a barn owners’ place to go up to a 15 year old who has been directed by their adult trainer to use this bit and tell them not to use it. No way that will go well. Hate to see a kid put in the middle of adults with differing opinions, they get defensive and are forced to take sides. Don’t go there.

Is this trainer one that comes in to your place to teach or do they haul out? You could ask the trainer about the whys and wherefores of this choice. You could also express a little concern to the parents of this rider-but leave the kid out of it unless it’s obvious abuse. And this is not.

If you think you see ways to improve the kid, you can offer to train her since you do some training. But offer with her parents before you speak to the kid.

Otherwise it is a MYOB. Or ask them to leave your barn.

As to the bit itself? No better or worse then the hands that control it and leg that supports it. Some horses that have been down the road a bit benefit from a little reminder. I still have one, full cheek yet. Used it on an old war horse of a Hunter OTTB that was a handful in the dead of winter.
Used it on a rusher/bolter for a short time as well.

1 Like
#45

If you question why this bit is used, discuss the issue with the trainer. I agree with findeight that you should not put the 15 yo rider in the middle.

My 12 yo has used a double twist on her 9 yo h/j on the advice of her trainer (a LBNT). My daughter is a quiet rider w/ quiet hands but over the winter this horse was grabbing the bit, rushing fences and on one occasion bolted and bucked her off. He’s generally a good soul, but had a few moments and she needed some extra control. The double twist gave her this control and reminded him of that fact. Now a few months later, she’s back in a regular snaffle, but the double twist is available on an as needed basis.

Now if someone were to question why she was riding her horse in the double twist, they should approach her trainer and ask. No way would I expect anyone to express their disapproval to my child over something that didn’t concern them, unless obvious abuse was involved. Any conversations should be adult to adult.

#46

[QUOTE=coco21;3264089]
I had a similar situation with a horse I bought. The previous owner rode him in a double twisted wire and spurs! The poor horse didn’t know whether to stop or go! He also had a rearing problem and it took a year to fix it.
Unfortunately it probably isn’t something you want to get involved in but I can certainly understand how frustrating it would be to watch anyone use that bit. I consider it border line abusive and poor horsemanship. I would have a problem with it too if someone used it at my barn.
Good Luck with that one![/QUOTE]

Correction: to watch anyone misuse that bit. If it had been used correctly it should NOT have produced a rearing horse.

I find it more than a little ridiculous how quickly people denounce a bit as abusive based on often limited experience/observation of the bit being used incorrectly. For every horse that has been “ruined” by a DTW (or more accurately, by the asshat who didn’t know how to use the bit), I can show you one that’s equally bad from being ridden in a plain smooth snaffle.

1 Like
#47

[QUOTE=LochNessD;3264723]
Correction: to watch anyone misuse that bit. If it had been used correctly it should NOT have produced a rearing horse.

I find it more than a little ridiculous how quickly people denounce a bit as abusive based on often limited experience/observation of the bit being used incorrectly. For every horse that has been “ruined” by a DTW (or more accurately, by the asshat who didn’t know how to use the bit), I can show you one that’s equally bad from being ridden in a plain smooth snaffle.[/QUOTE]

But obviously a harsher bit has more ability to do damange in the wrong hands than a softer one. Believe me, I could yank my horses face of in my loose link snaffle, but if I got in his face with a DTW he’s be up and over. Also, for the poster that said it was “more” gentle than a single wire, that isn’t true. A double breaks in two spots, thereby excerting pressure in two places at once.

There are always those who justify the use of gadgets–but the whole purpose of a hunter round is a calm, quiet horse who elegantly does the job. The horse isn’t out in a real hunting field and is often jumping low fences with long approaches. A good horseman would need no more than a regular snaffle in this context.

#48

It does have two point of contact with the roof of the mouth. However, the contact with the bars is distributed over a larger area and is less severe.

Think of it this way, which is “harsher” on a steak or chicken breast: Steak knife or butter knife?

The single twisted wire bit is like a steak knife. Less surface area for the pressure to be distributed to and so it slices easier.

The DTW is like a butter knife. There’s more surface area and therefore is less ‘harsh’ on the steak.

That doesn’t even mention the ridiculously thin wires that a single twisted wire comes in. My jaw always drops when I see some of the single twisted wire bits in Schneider’s. Try this one or this one on for size.

#49

If you truly think the horse is being abused and ridden in a cruel fashion, address the trainer. OF COURSE.

If you are putting on judgey pants and just well, judging and trying to make yourself feel better by cutting down others, then just complain to anyone who will listen.

There is a really big range of ideas on horse training. Ultimately, IMO, a kid on a strong horse who probably rides with floppy reins, yanking back once in a while on a horse with a double wire is probably pretty benign in the grand scheme of things. But then, that is my opinion. There is probably someone who finds it horribly cruel then again someone who suggests a tack nose band for extra stopping power.

Also, ever ridden a puller? Now granted, a rider can make a puller. Put a snaffle on some of these pullers and you are up shit creek. Put a harsher bit and you can do something. Yes. It probably is a short cut. Yes, you probably should have ridden better and not created a puller. But bad riding happens and most of us need tools to correct it. And yes, probably if we were all perfect, we could all go 'round Rolex in a french link snaffle. But, alas we aren’t.

#50

[QUOTE=LochNessD;3264723]
Correction: to watch anyone misuse that bit. If it had been used correctly it should NOT have produced a rearing horse.

I find it more than a little ridiculous how quickly people denounce a bit as abusive based on often limited experience/observation of the bit being used incorrectly. For every horse that has been “ruined” by a DTW (or more accurately, by the asshat who didn’t know how to use the bit), I can show you one that’s equally bad from being ridden in a plain smooth snaffle.[/QUOTE]

Actually I personally don’t like to see anyone use it period.

#51

Which is an opinion your entitled too, but it doesn’t make her statement any less true.

We all have reasons for what we use or don’t use, like or don’t like. But your opinion doesn’t make something bad or even a ‘gadget.’

I personally am not a fan of the double bridle, but I if I didn’t want to see it used (and often misused) I would never get to watch dressage. And I like dressage.

1 Like
#52

Exactly what I always thought about single vs. double twisted wire bits.

My jaw always drops when I see some of the single twisted wire bits in Schneider’s. Try this one or this one on for size.

Me too…and to think, the 1st barn I was at lunged their horses in “headsets” using those bits.

That said-I’m a big believer the bit is only as harsh as the hand. Case in point-I was riding a mare in a happy mouth snaffle today when she anticipated we were heading for a lead change, caught me off guard, and TOOK OFF out in the field, I was practically hauling on the left side of her mouth to get her to stop and she got a bit rub, there was a small spot of blood on the bit guard, although I didn’t find any blood on her, looked inside her mouth as well. Just pinched her good.

#53

Horses learn on the release, not the pull. Thus, many horses would be happier in a twisted wire if given release for a reward than being constantly lugged on in a thick eggbutt snaffle.

Of course, going in a thick snaffle with release is always the objective, but not always the starting point! Plus, if you’re only going to a stronger bit for control and not fixing the actual issues at hand, it doesn’t matter what you use - the horse will just require more bit and more bit and more bit…

I’ve never used a DTW - don’t have one - but I agree with RugBug on the mechanics. Also, though it breaks in two places, each break limits the other break on how much in can break. There is no such limit on a STW.

#54

I have a double and a single twisted wire in my bit arsenal along with a 5" shank mullen mouth pelham and 3" shank slow twist pelham :eek:

My old guy went well in ALL those bits. We went with the 5" pelham first, then the STW for a short while then the DTW for a short while then the 3" pelham for a really really short while then to a plain old D snaffle.

Each bit had a purpose. I think he went best in the 3" but he also went in that last which by then he was right about where I wanted him hence the quick change to the snaffle. I ride in an eggbut slow twist now because I don’t ride him that often and want that “I’m here” reminder to the big lug.:winkgrin:

When I bought him he went in a kimberwicke and I was told he was too much horse for anything less. I HATED that bit (still do). I brought him home and put him in a full cheek snaffle-at first. I bought the kimberwicke just in case I needed it but now I’m sorry I wasted that $15! I used it maybe once. He was too much horse for a plain snaffle initially but through training-which involved the need for the above mentioned bits-I got him to where he went well in a plain snaffle. Took a lot of work but we got there. I don’t knock any bit as you never know the need for it until you ask the rider/owner/trainer (unless of course there is obvious abuse but then it’s not the bit, it’s the rider)

To the OP: I’d ask the trainer why they feel the need for this bit-approach it as “I’ve never seen anyone ride in a DTW before-can you tell me what benefit it has?”. If you ride this horse and you don’t need it, I’m thinking it’s a simple matter of you riding better than the 15 yr old. The horse might need that “reminder” with the kid and until the kid learns to ride better (some never do so keep that in mind) that bit might be the ticket to success.:slight_smile:

#55

[QUOTE=Dirty Little Secret;3261717]
Not your horse so it’s not your call. Unless the customer asks for your opinion then don’t give it.[/QUOTE]

Agreed completly. My old horse went in this bit and I was 15 when I was riding him.

#56

I am an eventer a used to use one on my first horse when I was 12. We got him from a hunter barn and he was in a Tom Thumb, but it was too much. Switched to a Dr. Bristol but couldn’t get him soft through the neck and jaw (he was quarter horse/appy) and he would randomly spin in a 20 meter circle on cross country (strange I know), then we switched to the double twisted wire for jumping. It was actually softer then the pelham and made it so we didn’t have pulling matches in the snaffle. I just pulled when needed and the rest of the time went around on a nice soft contact. Kody loved his double twisted wire and would have a nice soft mouth with plenty of foam when we used it.

I would rather bit up and pull once or twice then hang and dull the mouth. I switched my advanced horse to a pelham from a happy mouth snaffle for the same reason. Sometimes those harder bits are better for the horses mouth when you aren’t constantly nagging.

#57

[QUOTE=coco21;3264948]
Actually I personally don’t like to see anyone use it period.[/QUOTE]

I guess you wouldn’t have gotten along too well with Will Steinkraus. He mentions the DTW in passing in one of his books as a bit that some horses go quite nicely in. :lol:

1 Like
#58

was anyone at thermal this year?
there was a tack trailer that had a bit that was literally a bike chain attached to dee rings.
and people were buying it…
at that moment i realized that my double twist wire was nothing to feel bad about.

#59

Are you sure it wasn’t a waterford. They can look like a chain, but really aren’t:
http://www.saddler.co.uk/shop.html?cr=2375&pr=2114&pdesc=loose_ring_waterford_bit_bi576

#60

[QUOTE=eclipse;3267803]
Are you sure it wasn’t a waterford. They can look like a chain, but really aren’t:
http://www.saddler.co.uk/shop.html?cr=2375&pr=2114&pdesc=loose_ring_waterford_bit_bi576[/QUOTE]

I have seen one that my old trainer had. She called it a Mule bit & it really had bike chain connecting the two rings.:eek:

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