Doug Spink's death

[PeteyPie]

@Rallycairn

Because it’s a red herring in the context of the thread as you started and formulated it. You started a thread about Doug Spink’s death. Then, when asked what happened to his animals, instead of a factual answer, you introduced the red herring of your opinion of how others respond to abused animals, and after paragraphs of trying to pull focus off Spink, the topic of the thread, you said we may never know. Those last few sentences would have answered mommy peanut’s question, but you very, very, very far from answer the question, you took the chance to push your pro-Spink view. You also act like I’m avoiding questions – I’m not. You are the one continuing to try to turn the focus of the thread from what you started with. Which again very clearly and strongly shows YOUR bias. This thread was never about Spink’s death, was it? You’ve taken every chance to railroad the discussion into defending his behavior regarding his animals. You keep doing that in your responses to me.

You claim the facts are erroneous, but they are what is out there with multiple citations, if you mean the mice. Red herring, red herring, red herring. Is this thread about Doug Spink or not? If you want to make a thread about HIS animals, please do so. If you want to make a thread about animals who are/were sexually abused, please do so. But take your obvious efforts to whitewash Spink’s behavior elsewhere. Waiting for you to throw out your “but he waged battle” and “oh, those mean, bad shelter people” arguments in 3.2, 1…

I think it’s pretty clear that this thread is about the author pushing books sales. If it were about Spink’s death, a succinct “Doug Spink, convicted animal abuser and drug trafficker, died on January 23, 2020” would have sufficed.

As for evidence he is still alive, I can only say that it is odd that in Googling Doug Spink and Douglas B. Spink, there is no reputable news source reporting his death. Oh, and don’t make the mistake that I did and click on any of the zoo forums. They are not about zoos.

[Rallycairn]

Very true, @PeteyPie (and @Libby2563) about pushing book sales, but also maybe about networking with zoophiliacs/bestiality practitioners or Spink fans or something – given the lack of reporting of Spink’s death you noted, PeteyPie, and the call in the original post for others to pm or post information. The thread’s odd, the situation nightmarish, and I shouldn’t have gotten involved, I just couldn’t believe someone with such obvious bias kept claiming to be neutral.

[CarreenMaloney]

@Rallycairn & @PeteyPie:
So you are suggesting that I lay in wait for three years after my book was published — plus one full year after Doug Spink’s death — to post on this forum as part of an elaborate plan I devised to promote my book? That’s pretty far-fetched. It’s about as credible as @Rallycairn claiming that you wish you hadn’t gotten involved…right as you continue to become more involved.

I truly believe there is an important discussion to be had here. I have had a lot of support over the years from people in the animal rescue community who recognize there are issues worthy of examination. That includes people who worked at the shelter where Spink’s animals ended up. But it is clear to me that the two of you are attempting to hijack that conversation in true troll style, prattling on about “bestiality practitioners” as each comment slips further and further away from reality.

You are not deterring me from telling this story. If anything, an exchange like this only serves to strengthen my resolve. I’m sure there are many people on the Chronicle of the Horse forum who care about what happened to Doug Spink’s animals, and animals from other cases like this one. But I don’t believe you are among them. I have given you every opportunity to say they mattered, but you just won’t do it. Demanding that I create a new thread to discuss Spink’s animals separate from the discussion of Spink himself shows just how far you will go to try to change the subject. But I have to admit you are unwittingly serving a useful purpose here. You are real-life examples of the mindset I’ve been writing about. So I should thank you for that.

[Rallycairn]

Yes, I try to finish things I start – meaning I don’t drop bombs in discussions and leave them without further engaging, if it’s warranted. I think that type of behavior would indeed be trollish. So that’s why I have continued to be involved, but I’m happy to make this my last post in this thread.

I will again say I would engage in a civil discussion about what happens to animal victims of human sexual abuse, in a discussion that is NOT about giving Spink a pass on his behavior.

But one more time: You want to focus only on the people who were stuck dealing with the fallout of Spink’s sexual abuse of animals, the situations they (the animals and the people, everyone involved) were put in by Spink, rather than acknowledging Spink’s role. And anyone who says, whoa, wait a minute, the root issue is that Spink’s behavior put them in danger in the first place, you insult them and set up straw man arguments and try to redirect the conversation, while at the same time refusing to start a new conversation about what you say you care about, the animals
.
I think most people in the COTH community surely do care greatly about animals, but what you are doing here is attempting to defend Spink.

[sascha]

@CarreenMaloney

So you are suggesting that I lay in wait for three years after my book was published — plus one full year after Doug Spink’s death — to post on this forum as part of an elaborate plan I devised to promote my book?

Well, ya know, sales decline, boosts are needed. It would be a smart tactical move to make! Not accusing you of that though. But, it is a weird thing to drag up because of receiving messages. Just answer the messages, “Yes, he is dead.” The end.

[candyappy]

Personally I think there are some stories that should never be told and this sounds like one of them.

[Libby2563]

Based on the product description on Amazon the book sounds like it portrays DS pretty positively. Here are some quotes:

Yes, zoophilia is something most people are totally ignorant about and taboos about it are strongly etched into our culture, despite the mythological traditions and the continuing popularity of the story, Beauty and the Beast. Whatever one’s feeling about zoophilia, Doug Spink’s story is a cautionary tale that shows all too clearly how easily one can lose one’s constitutional protections once one has crossed over that all-too-illusory line.

In the end, you may not like Doug Spink, but you might come to admire him. In a world that demands conformity, he refused to bend.

[sascha]

@Libby2563

Based on the product description on Amazon the book sounds like it portrays DS pretty positively. Here are some quotes:

Yes, zoophilia is something most people are totally ignorant about and taboos about it are strongly etched into our culture, despite the mythological traditions and the continuing popularity of the story, Beauty and the Beast. Whatever one’s feeling about zoophilia, Doug Spink’s story is a cautionary tale that shows all too clearly how easily one can lose one’s constitutional protections once one has crossed over that all-too-illusory line.

In the end, you may not like Doug Spink, but you might come to admire him. In a world that demands conformity, he refused to bend.

Oh. My.

“that all-too-illusory line” about made me want to puke. I suppose there’s an “all-too-illusory line” when it comes to paedophilia too. Just because things were common in history, doesn’t make them right. I’d insert an at symbol here and the name of the OP here, but no, just no, no need to conjure such a despicable sort.

[CarreenMaloney]

@Libby 2563: That is not the product description of my book on Amazon. I am fine with people criticizing my book, but please try to stick to the truth rather than just making up stuff about it. I have no idea who wrote that. The story was very complicated to tell – the most complex story I’ve ever written – and I can’t control what people read into it or say about it.

[CarreenMaloney]

@sascha: I’m sorry to tell you this, but by posting on the thread that I created, you are conjuring me up whether you include my name in your comment or not. You may view this project – or me – as despicable for writing about this topic, and I’m okay with that. But I believe the story has important information to share about how society treats animals when they have been through these experiences. It’s a kind of scarlet letter, and it usually ends in a death sentence.

[sascha]

@CarreenMaloney

I believe the story has important information to share about how society treats animals when they have been through these experiences. It’s a kind of scarlet letter, and it usually ends in a death sentence.

Oh. Stop. If you gave half a crap you would not call bestiality, “these experiences.”

Here’s a clue, although euthanasia is sad, especially when an animal appears healthy (but may be in danger of falling into the wrong hands due to its being a victim of bestiality), a painless end is NOT the worst thing that could happen to it.

[CarreenMaloney]

@sascha: If you gave half a crap you would not be using “these experiences” as justification for killing the animals.

[Libby2563]

@CarreenMaloney

@Libby 2563: That is not the product description of my book on Amazon. I am fine with people criticizing my book, but please try to stick to the truth rather than just making up stuff about it. I have no idea who wrote that. The story was very complicated to tell – the most complex story I’ve ever written – and I can’t control what people read into it or say about it.

I am certainly not making anything up, LOL. Those excerpts are “editorial reviews,” which on my Amazon app appear in the product description. They are not random Amazon reviewers. They are people whose reviews you or your publisher chose to feature, as far as I can tell. If they don’t represent the content of your book I suggest you look into getting them changed.

I’m attaching screenshots for you so you can see how they appear. I did not include every word of the reviews I quoted though because they’re quite long.

[CarreenMaloney]

I’m starting to feel like a broken record, but I’m going to try to express this once again anyway. This thread was never about an attempt to “defend Spink” no matter how hard you try to characterize my comments that way. You have no clue what I think and feel about this, and your comments are evidence of that. In fact, if you had actually read the book, you would find there is information in there that isn’t flattering to him. All I did was answer the other commenter’s question on what happened to the animals – and I think there are some out there on this forum who truly want to know the details of that process – and so that’s what I provided. And again, if you had actually read the book, you would know that I did not just focus on the people who decided the fate of Spink’s animals. I focused on everyone involved in the case. And I interviewed almost everyone involved in the case. All sides. All interested parties. And the lawyers. And law enforcement. And guess what? They all sat for interviews, they all gave me huge amounts of information, and they all told their sides of the story. And THAT is what my book is about. And I continue to believe there is value in telling this story no matter how mad it makes you or any others that I told it.

[CarreenMaloney]

@Libby2563: You can’t seriously be claiming I have any control over what people choose to say in the reviews??! And no, the publishers do not get to choose which reviews Amazon features. That is totally in control of Amazon’s algorithm. I could drive myself crazy if I sat around obsessing over the book reviews. Everyone has their own agenda. Everyone sees the story in their own way. All I can do is conduct the research, get the information, do the interviews, and tell the story in the clearest way possible.

[sascha]

The fact that a supposedly unbiased journalist chooses the phrase of “these experiences” over the term bestiality says far more about you than all your hand-wringing repetitiveness ever will.

If you don’t want to be mis-understood, speak clearly in plain language about crimes committed rather than couching those crimes in softer, more ambiguous language. You can call a spade a shovelle as earnestly as you like because after all a spade is a shovel and what’s the harm in Franglifying a word to make it sound better, no blood, no foul in an informal bulletin board setting, right? But the fact is that that shovelle is still a rusted out tetanus-infested dirt encrusted spade and it doesn’t shed a pretty light on the user of the term.

It is far, far more important to many of us that the Doug Spink’s of the world are held responsible than it is if some of the animals he subjected to bestiality were given painless, if possibly early deaths. Is that what you were waiting for so that you could really rev up your hand-wringing? Not going to work. Animal victims are not human victims.

[CarreenMaloney]

@sascha: Are you kidding me with this?? You parse one of my sentences by pulling out two words to try to find some language you can project something onto. I’ve got news for you: everything we go through in life is an experience – the good, the bad and the ugly.

Your comment about human victims versus animal victims says it all. You have shown yourself and made yourself perfectly clear. And you are proving my point to the letter. I hope everyone reading along can see that it’s really true – when animals are involved in zoophilia or bestiality or whatever you want to call it, the death card is thrown onto the table without much second thought. It’s so incredibly sad. Attitudes like yours are what drove me to write this book. And you don’t even see it. You think it’s fine to kill them because God forbid there could be a chance someone will find them again and try to commit the bestiality again.

[Libby2563]

@CarreenMaloney

@Libby2563: You can’t seriously be claiming I have any control over what people choose to say in the reviews??! And no, the publishers do not get to choose which reviews Amazon features. That is totally in control of Amazon’s algorithm. I could drive myself crazy if I sat around obsessing over the book reviews. Everyone has their own agenda. Everyone sees the story in their own way. All I can do is conduct the research, get the information, do the interviews, and tell the story in the clearest way possible.

Once more, for clarity, I’m not talking about random people’s reviews submitted to Amazon. I’m talking about the editorial reviews that appear in the description. If you look you’ll see the difference. I checked with my sister who published a Kindle book and she confirmed that she controls the description. So if you don’t think the quotes I posted reflect your book, you should look into removing those reviews.

[AMackechnie]

Balderdash.

This forum is not full of readers who will quickly promote euthanasia for an animal that has been abused. Many of us on this forum recall when Spink himself was a frequent poster. We know what “his story” was and we do not have to read your book to remember it.

Insisting that those of us reading “think it’s fine to kill them” (animals) because they’ve been abused with bestiality is a very silly statement. Euthanasia of any animal would have many considerations and the first and foremost would be an examination of that animal’s quality of life and determination of whether these animals have been damaged irrevocably by the abuse they have received.

[sascha]

You continue to dig yourself deeper.

As an “unbiased” journalist you should understand the importance of every word and use them appropriately. Clearly, you do not.