I have been riding with a HUS trainer for as long as I can remember. I recently purchased a lovely paint mare who is not cut out for the HUS world and would be much happier in club level hunter schooling shows. These are mostly not AQHA people and have different judging styles. My concern is my horse is built downhill. I don’t mind I just stay back, bought a custom saddle and pads to help shim it up a bit, and have done well on the low circuits thus far. My trainer now dropped a bomb that if I’d like to continue riding with him then I need to stop jumping my horse. He thinks it’s too hard on her to jump being built downhill. We have only ever jumped a max of 2’3"- 2’6" with no intentions of jumping higher. We jump maybe once a week, usually less, at lower heights and we’ve pinned first in literally every O/F classes we’ve ever been in. WWYD? Can you compete a downhill hunter?
How downhill is downhill? If she is built extremely downhill (like inches lower than the hindquarters) then it likely it harder on her but honestly, 2’3"-2’6" isn’t very high so if you aren’t jumping her everyday, I think she would be okay… but your trainer knows the horse, you, and the situation better… have you asked your trainer WHY he thinks you need to stop jumping her?
it depends. some horses defy their conformational shortcomings and others are crippled by them. is your horse sound?
if anything, your vet should have the final say on what your mare’s shortcomings may be.
Interesting that your trainer feels so strongly. I’ve known a few (nice) downhill hunters… I owned one, and while he was harder to ride, he also jumped and moved great.
Do you have photos(confirmation shots) and a video we could see to get a better idea?
Yeah too many variables here
how downhill?
this horse could really dig a hole to the base without a lot of work to teach him to carry himself and he did A/As at WEF (and the A/Os at other A shows)
http://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/2178_1046208389634_4101_n.jpg
This horse is a freak - looks and feels downhill, especially at a walk/standing - no neck in front of you at all, but feels totally different at a canter
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8381/8547909769_7eeb6c0d6c.jpg
(worst pic ever - he had a few months off while I was recovering from elbow surgery - out of shape pudge ball!!)
he can go from this
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8237/8367788751_e3fe2413cb_b.jpg
to this,
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8502/8368857222_a9b1fa1e2f_b.jpg
depending on how you ride him. Here he is on the way to a jump
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8002/7594054468_2e4d68a3be_o.png
so the real questions are - how naturally downhill built is he and does it change (get better) at the canter, and if is not significantly better, how much work have you done to try and improve his ability to get in front of your leg at the canter?
But I can say nothing is more scary looking than a horse digging a hole to the base of a 3’0 or higher fence. The only thing worse than watching it is riding it.
Wow DMK, LOVE that chestnut!
I’ll try and get some photos or a video this evening. She’s 2" different though so downhill if your not sitting back at the w/t. Canter is much more uphill feeling. She has those trail behing legs at the canter with good forward motion from the front. Her trot when you ride and think “uphill” is to die for, so free through the shoulder. I’m wondering if maybe he’s upset that I’m going down a different path? He coaches zero O/F anything and is really starting to pick on my horse since I’ve stopped our lessons. It’s driving me nuts and really making my visits to the barn short.
I’m in the camp that says if the horse is sound, going to the jumps willingly and isn’t landing in a big heap on the other side in a way that it appears to be painful/difficult for the horse to jump, I don’t see what the problem is.
If the horse shouldn’t be jumped, she will tell you. My trainer’s favourite saying when it comes to people questioning a horse’s jumping suitability: “In Europe, cows jump 1.20m.” Doesn’t come much more downhill than that. :lol:
is it a possibility your trainer feels this way because you are no longer lessoning with him as frequently?
[QUOTE=peanut_butter;7179333]
I’m wondering if maybe he’s upset that I’m going down a different path? He coaches zero O/F anything and is really starting to pick on my horse since I’ve stopped our lessons. It’s driving me nuts and really making my visits to the barn short.[/QUOTE]
This sounds more personal/monetary than horse anatomy so suss out some alternates barns, then have a long chat with trainer - you may resolve issue with current trainer or both decide to amicably move on …
Did have a horse in barn that trainer felt was conformationally too weak to jump (& remain sound) - trainer insisted that horse had to strengthen/develop as much as possible through topline before allowing any jumping sooooo horse jumped rarely, owners decided to move on, horse was broken down & a giveaway (they couldn’t actually give away) within 2 years: sad as he was a very sweet horse (who did LOVE to jump).
It maybe more of a conformation issue then really downhill. A lot of paints and qhs even my paint are prone to navicular. Jumping is not going to help the issue of navicular possibilities if the horse is built for it. My paint is not bad downhill just a little but I’ve been told by farrier and vet not to jump him a lot and nothing over 2’ for the fact that he is built (straight in the shoulder and other reasons) to possibly develop navicular. His feet are in corrective shoeing and we have taken multiple xrays to determine the right angles for him to help him. My friends qh that feels like he is going to fall on his face in the walk and trot because he is downhill, the canter is better and when he uses himself properly in the walk and trot he is better was a jumper and did some eventing but was retired at 17 because of navicular issues. I would talk to a vet and farrier first and then go from there
Thanks donkerbruin, he’s turned into a fun little horse (15’3) and shockingly enough, a TB (and I have the DNA test to prove it!)
Idk dmk that horse doesn’t look really that downhill to me. He’s a cutie and looks like he carries himself well
Anyone who has sat on him at a walk might beg to differ, even the reiner who rides him marvels at it. 
But no, he isn’t “built” downhill, HOWEVER, he does have a lower set neck out of his shoulder and a propensity to travel with his poll very low (he can canter on the lunge line and whack his chin with his toes if he is in the mood), and all this creates a feeling of downhill, which goes back to my original question: how downhill
Or maybe more accurately, is the OP’s horse truly downhill, because there is built downhill where the wither truly is below the croup and then there is the kind of downhill feeling you get from a low set neck and a horse that carries himself like most QHs (that are not actually built downhill) tend to carry themselves. Both can feel very similar to the uneducated rider, both can be jumped, but one is physically easier for the horse to overcome.
Shockingly enough, I’ve learned that on COTH you cannot assume everyone is speaking the exact same terminology when it comes to stuff like this, and you must explain what you mean. Possibly even prove 8x10 glossies with circles and arrows. 
He does carry himself very well - it’s funny, I bought home before he ran through the sales as a yearling, and possibly the only “uphill” pic he ever took was the JC inspection pic http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3132/2738219285_0eeea9d3c9_b.jpg
when I arrived at the farm and saw him he was not nearly so uphill and I was all, “hmmmm” - then I saw him trot in the round pen. Jaw drop. And then I saw him canter, and he was sold. Beautiful balance, 10+ mover and I swear, I could see the distance to our first fence and he was only 15 months old!
Then I bought him and for the next 24 months he could have best been describes as a witherless sausage tube. But a witherless sausage tube with a VERY balanced canter!
I believe horses really don’t need to JUMP unless it’s bordering 3’ or higher. Depending on horse’s size obviously, but all four legs don’t really leave the ground until the fences get higher. Less impact on the joints.
Ask your vet to check your horse and have him/her watch your horse move. Get xrays if you need to. Or flatly, get another coach. Sorry to be blunt.
But really. I have ridden with a few coaches who just didn’t like that my horse had colour. So they adopted ‘reasons’ to make me feel less superior about my horse.
I am sure this would have been a different story if I had purchased said horse from them.
I have to say if a horse is of color in a ring of bays and chestnuts they better be good lol. I went from a bay to a buckskin overo. Not heavily marked but still different. I have put Extra time into him before he entered the show ring and it stood out because he was awesome. Love this horse.
Dmk I mean a truely down hill where the withers are lower then the croup type horse ;). I know what you mean by feeling like they are not there with that low set neck though and feel down. I have ridden a few lol. I do love your guy though.
If she’s stayed sound and comfortable while jumping and you don’t have any reason to think she might become unsound in the near future, IMO she should be okay to jump.
My large pony is built considerably downhill and has no issues jumping. Due to his breed and being a conformational wreck (besides the downhill-ness) he maxes out scope-wise at around 3’; he’s currently on lease as a short stirrup packer and champions nearly everywhere he goes.
Back in the old days (70s/80s) many of our hunters were built downhill and we floated the reins to them and jumped 3’6" or higher. There is a difference between being built downhill and cantering around on your forehand. Our horses still had balanced canters mostly. If the horse has conformation issues for navicular or canters on its forehand and trips in front then I could understand the trainer’s concerns. Maybe the horse needs some balance work but “downhill” on its own isn’t an issue IMO.
