I read recently about Dr John Robb and his fight against annual vaccinations for dogs, as he thinks they’re dangerous to their health, to be repeated annually, and with no adjustment in dosage from large to small dogs.
He’s quite…strident…but don’t shoot the messenger, right! I’m curious what others are seeing with their vets and the arguments against inoculating annually. I had only known about rabies, and how it’s not necessary every year, but every 3 - 5? - years, for instance.
Just curious, really, and trying to be a better-informed dog owner!
I do titer testing annually, which is expensive. With that, I am able to board my dogs and have them groomed at the vet’s office. Last time, their distemper tigers were both low and I know that there is am argument that they may have still been protected, but I choose to get them revaccinated.
Vaccines are wonderful, but I do worry about the harmful effects of too much. That is why I moved over to the titer testing rather than the vaccines every year. I am not a vet, but I do think that many vets are more accepting of that line of thinking now than a few years ago.
I had a cat who had a bad reaction to the feline rabies vaccine, so I got a titer instead. The problem back then (this was probably '12 or '13) was that there was no set standard for what equaled “enough”. They compared it it human standards, and said he was more than likely protected, but it could not function as a legal substitute because there were no set standards. Is this still the case?
I’m all for vaccination, I just worry we have not put the resources into levels over time and may be over-vaccinating, in some cases. This usually will not cause with most healthy animals, but for those with innate immune malfunctions, such as with my little cat, it can cause an issue. There’s a giant body of literature regarding the safety and efficacy of human vaccines, it just seems in the animal kingdom they’ve worried more about cost efficiency and ease vs. antibody efficiency. It does seem that this vet might be overstating the occurrence of potential side effects, without providing statistics to back up the frequency.
The one benefit he does not mention about yearly vaccinations is simply getting the animal into the clinic. People seem much more hesitant to bring an animal in for a yearly exam rather than vaccinations; they assume their pet seems healthy to them. Those yearly exams can catch things an owner might not. Although, those spending the money to titer antibodies hopefully would still bring them in for frequent check-ups.
I would be less hesitant to bring my cats to the vet if the vet wasn’t pushing vaccines everytime we show up. Both of mine are WELL vaccinated but I had to argue with my previous vet about how I was not going to yearly vaccinate my then 18 year old, toothless, debilitated, indoors her whole life cat. He argued what if a bat gets in the house or she bites one of the staff. SHE’S TOOTHLESS!! I’m not an antivaxer but we vaccinate pets way too much because it is a money maker .
One of the major problems with doing a Rabies titer is that the counties who demand Rabies vaccines do not allow titers. I’ve sent many letters to counties where dogs have had immune disorders and I wouldn’t vaccinate them, but the county didn’t care. They would insist. Yeah, no. You can vaccinate and when the dog dies, your problem, not mine.
I don’t push vaccines if people are willing to do titers. But they are expensive. But I wouldn’t want to take the chance with my own pet if there was a possibility of him being vulnerable. I rarely get people to do titers.
I also don’t push vaccines if people are willing to come in for yearly exams. I hate seeing them every 3 years only.
I do one year rabies and lepto every year. After the first couple of years, we repeat the rest of the routine vaccinations every 3 years. I don’t usually vaccinate for bortedella, but they’re being boarded on and off this summer, so I’ve added that in.
I am struggling with this decision right now in large part because of Dr Robb. I do not have a small animal vet that supports my concerns in any way.
I have an 18 week old pup that came home with his first round of shots at 10 weeks and I have not given him anything since. I do intend to give him rabies but was waiting until he was at least 6 months old. I tried to discuss with my usual vet and he rolled his eyes and reminded me it was illegal in Ontario to not give the rabies vaccine.
I intend to do titers but was told I have to wait until he is 1.
The protocol I would have preferred was to wait until he was 16 weeks and do 1 round only of all the usual vaccines but that ship has sailed.
I want to give this pup the very best chance at good health and longevity. Am I putting him at greater risk by not having him vaccinated again? Or is the risk from the vaccines far more? It is getting very challenging figuring out what the right thing to do would be.
Vaccinating is definitely an owner’s choice with the exception of rabies. Most animals don’t have an adverse reaction to vaccines, some do.
I try to vaccinate on the “light” side where possible and my vet is on-board with that. I’m personally not a big fan of titers.
Rabies, I do what the law requires where I live. The risk to my animal’s health and well being if they bite someone with no rabies vac administered by a vet isn’t worth it.
Can I ask what your aversion to titers is? I wasn’t aware there was a downside other than cost.
The risk with a dog is not that high. What I mean by that is, at least where I live, it means house arrest (quarantine) with frequent visits from the health department and that is it. I had a Dobe bite a vet tech and he had not been vaccinated that year but had always before. He was 5 and had DCM so we chose not to do anything that may compromise his failing health. We knew he was not rabid so it wasn’t a problem to go through the quarantine.
A horse is different. If there were a concern that a horse was exposed and not vaccinated then what? I do not know of a facility that would quarantine a horse. My equine vet told me that my older horse 100% would not actually need a rabies vaccine but we administered one anyways because legally if he were exposed my options would be limited (euthanization the only option really).
Yes, in your scenario not vaccinating is going to be the greater risk. There’s a good chance that the 10 week vaccine was inactivated by maternal antibodies. Give another distemper combo now and you should be good until a year from now when you can either vaccinate (mine get puppy series, again at a year, and then at 4 years) or pull a titer
Well,the clinic where I work has just seen an outbreak of distemper. All of the pups of a litter adopted out by a rescue came down with it and all they had was the first vaccine. It was a sad thing to tell the owner of a pup for which they had just paid an adoption fee of $200.
You CAN do titers after your pup has his ‘final’ shot to see if his antibodies are present; you do not have to wait until he is one year old.
Marshfield is right - if your vet refuses to do titers on pups: go ahead and get ONE shot now for deadly diseases. Then you are good for a year hopefully. Probably a lot longer if you choose to do titers instead of re-vaccinating.
I disagree with re-doing the 3 series again in a year; immune response is an on/off and more vaccine in a small time period isn’t going to ‘make it better’. One is plenty, if you don’t do titers.
There is dispute about the efficacy of Lepto vaccine being limited to only a few strains and seeming to have higher incidence of reactions. Bordetella also might be optional unless you are going to board your dog.
The adjuvants used in vaccines can be the culprit and there is nothing you can do about that except research vaccines to find hopefully the least reaction provoking, or the worst; then find out what your vet uses.
Then there are possible vaccine storage and shipping problems, poor vaccination hygiene, vaccinating improperly into blood vessels or the spine, etc. Which have nothing to do with the vaccine itself.
.It is very important to protect your pet, but over vaccinating does not do this and may not be harmless.
Very sad. If they miss the ‘window’ where the bitch’s transfer via colostrum wears off assuming she can provide those antibodies: she may have had low immunity herself. This is why the series is given: to hit the window.
“The incubation period (the time from exposure to the appearance of symptoms) is usually 1-2 weeks but can be as long as 4-5 weeks or even more. The initial symptoms of fever and lethargy in the early incubation period are often missed.” http://veterinarycalendar.dvm360.com/canine-distemper-proceedings
Those pups contracted the disease at the rescue. May have had it long before the vaccination. Adopting out pups is stressful to them and likely gave the disease a jump up. Very sad.
One needs to take into consideration the area you live in, your own views/comfort level, and (hopefully) good advice from your vet, then vaccinate on a schedule you feel fits.
For myself & my dogs/puppies, I follow a limited vaccination schedule. Neopar is given at 5 & 7 weeks, then Nobivac Canine 1-DAPPV at 10 weeks & again at 14(for those pups still here).
Rabies isn’t given until 6 months then a 1 year booster & then switch to a 3 year booster.
They get one last booster of the DAPPV at about a year old.
Unless circumstances call for it, they get no other vaccinations. No matter what I NEVER do Lepto or Corona.
Thanks for all the thoughtful responses! I can’t remember where I first read about Dr Robb, but I think it might have been when our little pack got their most recent shots earlier this spring. One in particular, aged JRT type, obviously felt like crap, bodysore, etc, for almost a week after his shots, which included a Lyme vaccination for the first time (it’s predicted to be v bad in our area this year). As a result of his pain, I googled “vaccination pain” or similar.
They’re going back to the vet shortly for check-ups, and I’ll bring up the option of titers, etc.
I do find Dr Robb’s online persona to be a bit shouty and evangelical, which - imo - does his message no favours, and dilutes his credibility, fwiw.
