Draft cross feeding - VA

[murphyluv]

I lost my first horse to Cushing’s in 2020 and rode the struggle bus for years before that with grazing muzzles and so forth.
I’m about to purchase a young draft cross who is only eating alfalfa hay and pasture right now.
My trainer suggested Tribute Kalm N Eze as the one he feeds all his fatties. However, 15% NSC still seems high and unnecessary for a horse who looks healthy on no grain at all.
However, I want to provide something to balance his diet. A friend recommended the Crypto Aero and I’ve read the reviews and opinions. While it seems nice, it’s quite expensive for something that would still require a balanced vitamin and mineral supplement. And hopefully alfalfa pellets that don’t require soaking.

I’m in Virginia, southwest VA if that helps, and I’m thinking alfalfa pellets as a base, with a vitamin mineral supplement. What do you all recommend? I’d like to start him out on the right hoof without going through hay and forage testing. Just something basic but solid and reasonably priced, but I do tend to avoid corn, soy and fillers.

Secondly, a Himalayan or other mineral block in his stall as well.

[RhythmNCruise]

You can just add a forage balancer to the alfalfa pellets. I use KIS Trace and it’s great. My trimmer recommends it to her clients. A barn mate of mine has a mare with insulin resistance and PPID and she uses KIS with soaked alfalfa/Tim pellets for her mare’s hard feed ration. Works great.

My horse isn’t metabolic or PPID, but I love that KIS covers his vitamins/minerals. It really helps his feet stay in good condition (I know because I quit feeding it once as an experiment and the feet suffered). I feed it with soaked beet pulp.

Your other option is a ration balancer. Your trainer recommended Kalm N EZ (from Tribute), but if you want lower NSC and calories, Tribute’s Essential K is a great option. Or you can look at dozens of other ration balancers on the market. Triple Crown’s is very low NSC and high quality too.

[Huntin_Pony]

I’d suggest talking to your vet and the breeder, if the breeder is experienced/knowledgeable.

In general, I’d be slow to change or to add things if the horse is doing well.

[Obsidian_Fire]

@JB for you to chime in.

[FjordBCRF]

@RhythmNCruise

You can just add a forage balancer to the alfalfa pellets. I use KIS Trace and it’s great.

Another vote for a forage balancer! My fjord gets a base of beet pulp then gets Vermont Blend Pro as his forage balancer.

[luvmyhackney]

If your hay isn’t tested just go with Vermont Blend pro, add some flax, soaked beet pulp and vitamin e in the winter and call it a day.

You could feed a ration balancer as well. Most are just fine.

[murphyluv]

thank you! I am definitely looking for “easy” like let’s keep it simple for the barn feeders. Some fat, a hay pellet, and a vitamin mineral. I do like flax, or chia. If I only have 3 things for them to throw in a bucket, I think that’s a solid.

[murphyluv]

I also don’t want to get into testing hay and soil. This horse is otherwise healthy as far as I know. I’ve researched selenium levels in my area and they can be fairly variable, so I don’t think I need high selenium and KIS makes a moderate selenium product with a low amount of E.

[Montanas_Girl]

@murphyluv

thank you! I am definitely looking for “easy” like let’s keep it simple for the barn feeders. Some fat, a hay pellet, and a vitamin mineral. I do like flax, or chia.

Is there some reason you are opposed to a ration balancer? It would provide a more complete, better balanced, higher quality diet than what you are considering and would also be simpler for your barn workers.

[JB]

@murphyluv

My trainer suggested Tribute Kalm N Eze as the one he feeds all his fatties.

Fatties don’t need a regular feed, it’s way too many calories. A ration balancer at best

@murphyluv

15% NSC still seems high and unnecessary for a horse who looks healthy on no grain at all.

15% is a good number for all but the EMS/IR/ID horse. For a normal healthy horse, < 20% NSC is fine, you can even creep up a few numbers depending on how much is fed. If he’s working really hard, then he may need more like 25% or so to support the work

Some ration balancers are 15% NSC, but you feed 1lb. Some regular feeds are 12%, but you feed 6x the amount, so more NSCs per meal.

@murphyluv

However, I want to provide something to balance his diet. A friend recommended the Crypto Aero

Ration balancer, whatever brand you can easily and reliably get.

Avoid CA, it’s over-priced and not fortified

@murphyluv

alfalfa pellets as a base, with a vitamin mineral supplement.

You could, and use a forage balancer to provide amino acids, copper/zin, often magnesium, and sometimes a bit more. The downside is most of this will cost more than a ration balancer, you have to mix 2 things (the pellets + the forage balancer which is usually a powder) and it nearly always has to be wet because they’re really not all that palatable (vitamins and minerals just don’t taste good, salt excepting). And usually, by the time you add enough of the carrier, the calorie difference between that and ration balancer is insignificant. The benefit of this mix is there’s (usually) no soy, no part of any cereal grain, etc, just nutrients. Some of them have a ground flax base, most don’t. If they’re pelleted, there may be a wheat middling base as a binder

“fillers” are often thrown around without definining them. I define it as edible but not digestible, and to some degree that’s a requirement in the diet. It might be used as a binding agent to make something into a pellet. But most things don’t have true fillers with a purpose, barring complete feeds where the horse needs some level of indigestible fiber to support a healthy hind gut.

Once you move to all hay, you’ll need to add vitamin E, as most forage balancers don’t have any (for a good reason), of those that do, some, like California Trace, don’t protect it with an oil so the copper content degrades it (long thread about this in the past). But something like UltraCruz Natural E, powder or pellet, is inexpensive and simple to add

[murphyluv]

not opposed to a ration balancer, but looking to avoid soy and grain. If there’s a great one I can order, I appreciate a recommendation.

[murphyluv]

thank you! He’s definitely not going to be working super hard. I think I understand what you’re saying. A true ration balancer, or a vitamin/mineral supplement, may be super unpalatable on its own, so I’d wind up feeding more carrier- which I’m thinking will be alfalfa pellets in this case. What is your opinion on KIS Trace or Vermont Blend Pro, with an alfalfa pellet and a fat source such as flax or chia?

[JB]

@murphyluv

looking to avoid soy and grain.

Triple Crown Balancer Gold, Tribute Wholesome Blends Balancer, Hygain has one whose name I forget but also I think fairly $$, and there are probably a couple more, are all soy-free.

What “grain” are you looking to avoid? Wheat middlings for example have more of the benefits of wheat, like protein, without as much of the “negatives” like the starch. Unless there’s an actual allergy, I wouldn’t look at a single ingredient to decide whether a product is suitable or not. For example, if you’re concerned that cereal grains mean too high NSC, then as my first comment mentioned, you have to also look at the total NSC of the product combined with a serving size. 1-2lb of a ration balancer at even 15% NSC still has a low amount of total NSCs in a meal.

@murphyluv

What is your opinion on KIS Trace or Vermont Blend Pro, with an alfalfa pellet and a fat source such as flax or chia?

Totally acceptable, if the multiple bucket dipping is ok with you/boarding situation, and your horse likes it. I prefer VBP over KT for reasons that have to do with the integrity of the respective owners, not necessarily the products

flax/chia - I did forget to mention that when you’re on hay-only , in addition to Vit E, it’s a good idea to add an Omega 3 supplement, so either of those will work. Flax has a slightly higher 3:6 ratio than chia, 4:1 vs 3:1, but whatever works for cost and palatability is fine.

[murphyluv]

ok, great! Thank you so much! So basically, I could do VBP and alfalfa pellets in the summer. In the winter add fat and E.

[JB]

Yep! And if you happen to need a bump in calories, just add more alfalfa pellets

[RhythmNCruise]

@JB

I prefer VBP over KT for reasons that have to do with the integrity of the respective owners, not necessarily the products

Well, you’ve got me curious now @JB!
PM me the deets if you don’t want to say on here. I don’t like supporting sketchy folks and do like supporting good folks.