I went with a friend and two of her friends. They had already picked which foals they wanted so when we got to the livestock yard in MT the horses were in a separate pen. I had a stock trailer backed up to a temporary chute, they ran the horses in and away we went. My friend got one but the other ladies got two each. I don’t know how the others turned out but my friends was so easy to train. He was a bit chunky, I think he was QH/Belgian cross. He looked like a small draft, got about to 15h but very wide with big legs and feet. A really sweet, handsome boy. Not talented, but had good enough gaits.
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It also depends So much on which draft breed and which line. There is a really wide range in the US especially. Brabants, which are rare but carry a roan gene so very popular for crossing, are hairy tanks. Even 1/4 Brabant would probably be too heavy for staying sound jumping. Some Pulling Belgian lines are also tanks but a 1/4 Belgian can be fairly sporty. Carefully crossed Percherons, Clydes, and Shires can be really nice at 1/2 or 1/4. Clip the feathers off of some Shire or Clyde crosses and you might not even be sure they were drafts, although the head is likely to give it away. (Of all the drafts they have, sadly in my opinion, been bred far far too light)
And on the other side of the cross, TB would be best. Morgan can also be really nice. I would stay away from the QH crosses, which are very common. They can make great western working horses and all rounders. But neither the draft nor the QH is designed for jumping or collection.
But you won’t know until they are five or so. My Shire cross (1/8 Morgan) has suddenly turned into the hulk at age 6. You also want to see the draft parent if possible: draft horse conformation, can be really appalling for riding purposes: very straight hind ends and upright shoulders. And they might be tanks!
As others have said, Irish Draughts aren’t really ‘drafts’ at all, I would class them more with the Cleveland Bay…but not an expert there.
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Kinda. Cleveland Bay and ID have some shared ancestry but they modern CBs are largely carraige/ riding horses with a emphasis on the driving, the modern ones anyway it’s an ancient breed that pre-dates the actual carriage, back when people used pack horses. They are going to be a bit hotter and have more knee and hock movement than IDs- a lot of CB blood in the GB sporthorse. I personally do not think they are for novices at all, some of the most difficult horses I’ve ridden were CBs or crosses. Like a lot of driving horses where they were going for matched sets they can be a bit genetically alike.
Brabands, Shires, Belgiums etc were bred to plough and pull heavy drays and barges: they are single purpose pushing machines. Only affluent farmers or businesses who had year round work for a big horse who was expensive to shoe and feed kept them, small farmers would have borrowed or rented one if needed. Closed studbooks, combined with the drop in demand have caused genetic problem in most.
Irish Draughts were always far more of an all around horse and probably developed from crossing the Irish hobby which was a light cavalry/ racing horse with the heavier Norman war horses that came over in the 1100s, and local ponies and later with horses from iberia. The breed type coalesced in the 17th/19th century when there was limited need for massive ploughing horses or dray horses in rural ireland and a ride and drive horse that was cheaper to feed and maintain and that could handle the terrain for travel, hunting and riding out but also pull a hay wagon or cart suited most farmers and landowners much better. Pack horses in Ireland have tended to be donkeys not ponies so the local ponies are really just small horses, not like the UK. The studbook is arguably still not 100% closed and certainly wasn’t even 30 years ago. They are pretty ruthless about disqualifying breeding stock that does not move straight or has any kind of medical condition too. That’s also why there is so much variation in the breed for such a small breed and they tend to be relatively healthy.
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I think the QHxdraft can be very nice. I think a Morgan would give too much shoulder and neck weight. I’ve seen a few Morgan/ Friesen crosses and it didn’t bode well for good canters or jumping. Plus the temperament.
My 1st ‘Good Horse’ was a QHXBelgian cross. He competed successfully (several times in the ribbons) at Preliminary. He then crossed over to 3rd level dressage before sadly passing. I also competed at Prelim against a Belgian/TB- he also ribboned frequently.
Now that I’m thinking about having to replace my late CB/3/4TB and my IDSH(also 3/4TB) horses, since I can’t afford more CB Sport horses or IDSH, I’d certainly consider another Belgian cross- actually, if I could find a young-ish Belgian/AppendixQH to bring along, I’d be ecstatic.
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I’m a ID/IDSH owner and soon-to-be breeder and am pretty immersed. That said, and having read the other thread mentioned, there is acres of difference between the imported Irish horse and the American Irish horse because of the difference between Irish and American riders. Full stop. That thread is just not a fair representation of the Irish bred over here. Our horses are bred for the American market.
I don’t need permission to post the below because they are posted publicly and I know the owners would love their stallions to get some extra pub. BUT these are not “back yard bred” horses and most horses with Irish Draught won’t be. But six figured they will NOT be and your trainer is delulu as the kids say if she is pushing your budget like that. On something that can decide to kill itself when the wind changes directions? Absolutely not. You might be in the wrong barn. That’s my opinion tho,and you know what they say about horses and opinions and buttholes (and horses’ buttholes).
Irish horses and cost tho?? There is a weanling I’d love to get my hands on currently priced at $12k. The cheapest one I saw last year was $9k. Started and ready for your daughter? Hmm. Well I wouldn’t sell my under saddle mare for less than about $25k with such low miles as to not even count and she’s not for sale. You could pick up a started and eventing one for your budget tho. On to some Irish horses, since that was your original post question and I like to share 
Kleary’s M&M (Mikey) purebred Class 1 Irish Draught currently competing in eventing
Same stallion with ID gelding Kleary’s Ready Teddy on a beach somewhere in Cali (I think) legging up…
Bell Tower Banrion’s Hero Class 1 ID stallion
https://fb.watch/zO3Nmh-kir/
Same boy, some dressage stills. She has much better ones but they are watermarked so I’m not posting them 
Same breeder has three other stallions (I think?), she’s imported two last year and knows her stuff. The liver chestnut above is her heaviest boy. Mike, the bay above, is an example of a lighter more modern boy. She has a nice grey as well that does eventing, Farraway Quicksilver, but I think I’m cluttering up the thread so I’ll move on.
Now THIS boy, Manu Fortis Proud Chieftain, another Class 1 ID, (Harley), is one who will have the most videos in dressage because he’s in a dressage barn and showing dressage. He is American bred, anything with the Manu Fortis label is American bred and going to be nice. I went to see him in person because he’s only about five hours away. He’s lovely. Very sweet boy. Huge, 17.2 and if he’s less than 1600 pounds I’d be shocked.
ALL of these stallions are calm and sweet. They are handled daily by their owners or trainers but Harley was in a regular rope halter when his ammie owner brought him for me and we had a horse chat session and she led him around the training facility while we talked. No chain. His non-glamour shot that I took 
He’s my first pic for my ID mare.
These are my two, the one with socks is my 5 yo IDSH and the “plain” bay is my 2 yo ID. This was this morning before turnout. Both are spoiled, both are perfectly ammie friendly because I’m a total ninny (confident, but a ninny, I don’t like being overhorsed) and while my IDSH is a bit of a emotional dragon sometimes, she’s nothing compared to what other people deal with.
I don’t ride as much as I should at all but she did get put under saddle winter 2024 and here are very few pictures of her from last summer. I hope to actually ride (or pay a kiddo to ride her) this summer and send her off on a show lease next year because I just don’t have the time. She’s really very nice.
Not all are the same. My IDSH gelding Rory was not ammie friendly and damaged my confidence. His pedigree was peppered with more high-octane type horses (related to Custom Made actually), and if I rode him at least five days a week, and I mean rode-rode like booty cheek lather, he was amazing, but if I didn’t then he was an ADHD crackhead and tore down the barn and himself and could actually be dangerous for turn-in and turn-out. He gave my Dad a black eye more than once because my Dad was too casual with handling horses and would get clocked in the side of the head, whereas I knew if I was putting out a horse-shaped kite that morning. His sire was imported and was very “Irish” and more typical of what the other thread talked about. And he didn’t keep shoes on even with heel guards, shoe savers, bells, nothing. I love this lesson we did in a boot 
If you’re really willing and looking, feel free to PM me. I can try to put you in contact with some people.
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Eh, not really. There are plenty of novice or older or working riders in Europe. The market for mother-daughter types and BFGs is robust and the field and show hunter market is still strong too. So those quiet, amateur friendly horses are bred there plenty, just not typically imported to the US. Or marketed to them. There are some lovely IDs and IDx being bred in the USA but they aren’t really terribly different.
No-one in the USA is breeding much in the way of 1.0m+ jumping horses in any discipline, certainly no-where near enough to meet demand. But that’s a whole other story.
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And that would be my point. Exactly what you quoted. The difference between imported Irish horses and American Irish horses. Thanks!
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For what it’s worth being a whole different country - clydie x tb are very popular amateur horses here in NZ and they tend to jump plenty well enough up to 1.10/1.20m. There are a couple of sporthorse type lines that have been shown to be reliably athletic enough for more than that, but there’s also plenty of “backyard” found a clydie stallion and put them over a tb mare that do very well. Generally as long as the conformation is decent they’re more than capable.
If you don’t want enormous height, then you could also consider a connemara/tb cross along with the IDs.
But realistically if you are wanting to go novice - as long as they have a decent canter they can usually manage the height no worries if sound.
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I’m a little confused because there’s a massive difference between telling an ammy they need a 6 figure import and the ammy shopping for 20k horses. It doesn’t seem realistic to me that a trainer would be that out of touch with the ammy’s price point. Also, the 6 figure imports are already going at a much higher level. If someone did want to purchase an import for the sake of saying they did, there are certainly cheaper horses (with varying training).
I’ve also seen a trend of people selling “Irish Cross” horses that are just bay draft crosses with ZERO Irish breeding so I’d make sure there is actually proof of breeding.
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I love a Clyde/1/2 or 3/4 TB. I’ve known a few, and all of them can JUMP. Sporty, and the smaller one was a turn-and-burn 16.1H pony-type that won all over Canada and the US in the 1.20. And he put up with a lot of rider shenanigans - ammy friendly but with a go button.
I’m about burnt out on the OTTB life, and am tossing around the idea of a Clyde cross or draftie cross youngster for my next one (whenever that happens). Essentially the same goals as OP - Novice/trails/low ammy jumpers, and really just looking for a sturdy safe horse I can put anyone on to plod around. I can make one up myself, but the “sturdy” has been lacking lately.
Also, Appendixes are on my radar for similar uses if you don’t want to risk an 18h behemoth.
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My coach used to dominate dressage on her draft cross in our area (and he jumped great too). I’m talking 18s and 19s in dressage - she’d be 7 or 8 points ahead of second place and far more from the rest in her division, and under different judges too.
Don’t forget it’s not just about the breeding, it’s about the training and riding. Especially here in Ontario and at the lower levels.
I just scribed nearly 8 hours of dressage tests yesterday from EV115 to EV85, sitting beside a licensed Senior judge and Grand Prix rider, and I’m telling you that the “non-fancy-pedigreed” horses who were correctly ridden and showed good training basics were scored higher than the great movers who were not well-ridden. Sure, he appreciated the gorgeous horses, but if the rider couldn’t put in a good test, they weren’t rewarded.
Now obviously if you get the great mover who is ALSO ridden well, they’re going to score high.
I think you need to seriously consider what you are wanting to get out of a possible new horse. Do you want to enjoy yourself safely, regardless of whether you win? Do you only want to win? Do you want to go into debt to finance an expensive horse who might colic or break its leg the day after you get it? None of these answers are wrong - you just need to decide what you really want and what you are willing to pay to get it.
Please don’t feel pressured to spend more than you can or want to, just to please your coach. It’s hard to tell online of course - maybe she’s just advising you that what you want is going to cost you more than you’ve budgeted. But you absolutely do NOT need to spend 6 figures to do well here in Ontario at the lower levels.
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Premarin farms
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When it comes to jumpers, no matter the breed or any other, what is important is the jump.
In the 1960s, our riding center owner had a big full blood Belgian that from 16 to 18 years old was our region High Point Open Jumper.
He could jump anything and faster than anyone else.
Costello reminded. me of him, but an even bigger model.
The ground shook when he just walked by you, he was big and heavy, but a great athletic jumper that had been trained and competed well.
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Does anyone remember an extensive thread years ago about a horse dealer in Louisa VA named Liz Booth that sold Canadian PMU horses? She had a rather…strange…business model. IIRC you picked out your prospect from a picture and paid and then she would import it.
She died about 5 years ago. I thought her family was going to continue her business but the link to her website Virginiasporthorses.com is dead.
In Ireland the designation ISH is somewhat a catchall term, not Irish Draught, not TB, not Connemara but can be crosses of those breeds. If only those breeds it is TIH, Traditional Irish Horse. I don’t know if TIH is an official registration. But unfortunately IMHO many breeders are using Continental breeding and they are also considered to be ISH’s.
ETA. Found this, plus links
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I remember-- you had to pay ($500?) up front to even go look but then the amount was credited against a sale. There was also some rumors that she falsified Coggins tests but I’m not sure if that was true.
It’s a registry, not a catchall term.
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Indeed and in fact they do not need to have Irish Draught blood at all.
They are still breeding and selling horses in VA. Just under the name Virginia Sport Horses now I believe.
I bought two from Liz at Virginia Sport Horses that have been fabulous. Both have Evented with many wins, foxhunted, working equitation and working on our Bronze Medal. Jessie Clise has the Connemara stallion and is doing the breeding and training now. She was involved with Liz when she was alive as a rider and trainer and has started doing everything now under Swift Creek sales horses. Reasonable prices, various crosses.
