Draining Water from Pasture... French Drains?

Hoping to find some advice regarding putting french drains into a pasture. (Or other cost effective methods for draining water…)

Our pasture is pretty wet throughout the spring and we are looking at ways to try and get better drainage without breaking the bank. We do have a ditch that runs out of the pasture that helps but isn’t quite enough. Pasture is all black dirt with a small round pen of sand off the side. Picking up manure through the winter isn’t an option since everything freezes for about 5 months.

Does anyone have experience with putting a french drain in their own pasture? Approximate cost? What steps did you go through and how well does it work? If you had to do it over what would you change? TIA :slight_smile:

Does the pasture have any slope to it? Where is the water coming from? I have some gently sloping paddocks and I put french drains at the top that collects the water coming down the hill towards the paddocks … those drains then feed into a Y joint and then into two runs of solid 4 inch PVC that is buried a foot underground and slopes out and away from the back of the paddocks. By ‘french drains’ at the top, I mean I have ditches about a foot deep and wide, with drain tile wrapped in landscape fabric, and then the ditch is filled with #2 bluestone. I don’t have a system to manage surface water in the paddocks but taking the run off from the top out of the game has made a huge difference. This might sound like a big PITA but it actually was super easy. Rented a mini excavator for a day, dug it out, dropped in the pipe and rock, and filled it back in.

The pasture just sits a bit low so the water gathers there. There is a spot that is slightly lower than it off to the side. We can get rid of most of the water with the small ditch that runs off one of the ends.

The pasture itself is pretty flat. The pasture behind it is only used in the summer since it is lower and holds more water than the front one. It also backs up to the neighbors property which drains into our back pasture…

We fixed our old drain tile running from the back field to the open ditch thru the pasture and riding arena. We hired it done, thought they did a great job. It was originally for fixing the old pottery tile, but it was broken in too many places to fix. The land freezing and thawing, volumes of water not running off from the tile caused a lot of issues over the many years, down under the surfaces. They had to lay in perforated plastic pipe, covered with a “sock” of knit material to keep dirt out of the pipe itself, worth the extra cost, does not deteriorate with time. I made the choice to upgrade from a 4" pipe to a 6" pipe because of the amount of water we get into the swale hole from the neighbors woods. We are the low area, everything comes our way to that open ditch to run off. The arena is not actually flat except one corner where the water will lay. It rises at one end, which does help it to dry faster! Very large arena, about 300’ by 90’, no tight turns all the time.

We used a couple rolls of pipe, well over 1000 ft to go from the swale hole to the open ditch. Had to splice them together which is easy with a snap together fixture and taping it down. He dug it down deep, almost 4ft, which is where the original tile lay, plus never have to worry if you wanted to actually plow and plant on the land someday. Way deeper than the plow would go. Then they covered it back up, I let it sit piled up over winter with our heavy clay soil. It did a lot of freezing, thawing, got rained on well, so what settling got done was firmly in place. I dragged and scraped the pipeline back level, spread manure, bedding on it with grass seed and got that looking OK again.

It has move a LOT of water this year, certainly glad we got the bigger pipe size to allow that. Neighbors land is draining a lot more water our way, than used to happen. It was just a little swale then, not 15ft across, our side was dry. Not doing anything with the land has made it into a big pond, 100’+ across with dead trees in it, lots of brush. We have added dirt on our side to keep it back, but still had to fence it off to keep horses out, and now to protect that pipe end in the open water we have. Ground around the tube is quite soft, floods up to the top of added dirt, 2ft high, so not horse safe.

I believe all the work, pipe, digging, was a couple thousand dollars, done by an experienced set of workers. Very professional, used an excavator with a narrow bucket, laser leveling to keep it going down hill, no high spots in the long run. No wasted time, no messes tearing up the ground. They refilled all holes neatly as possible, piled the dirt straight onto the pipe so other ground was clean.

We had him out that next spring, felt the water wasn’t “leaving fast enough” with the still full swale hole flooding. He pulled the taped-on cap off the low end, and about fell in the water shooting out! It was like a fire hose!! They had put on a cap drilled full of holes to allow the pipe drainage, but we had SO much water trying to leave and it couldn’t get out fast enough. He advised leaving the cap off, told me about other tube ends that could be used instead of the drilled cap. I changed the ends to a gate, a set of straight bars that barely impedes flow, but won’t let animals get inside the pipe. I did this at both ends, but do have to clean off the top end that has such suction that weeds will lay across the pipe end, slowing flow. Kind of like a giant bathtub drain swirling down! The drilled cap up there in the swale was also not allowing enough water to get in to leave faster. The pipe company sells these gates, just make a hole in the tube end and tighten the bolt. Gate will swing open if water is forceful enough, but swings shut with no water pressure. I figure most tiny animals that might fit thru the bars will not go into the tube with water on the bottom almost all the time.

The new tile run has done an amazing job of improving our runoff, speeding it up, no “fake artesian wells” where the broken tiles allowed water to well up before. The arena is ready to use without much wet dirt in a day and a half after heavy rain. We have had open ditches on the arena sides, raised the surface to work on, which did help get drainage before fixing the drain tile. That is an idea if you can’t get the drain tile any lower, area being the lowest point now. We were not “lowest of the low” so we had more ability to make water move downhill and leave.

It was worth paying for, no experienced diggers here, no laser equipment (not that we ever thought of using THAT!) and they had “done this before” so they knew how to finesse things they encountered. I bet we would have the slippery clay dirt spread all over STILL, doing it ourselves, as well as messing up the arena surfaces and layers.

I didn’t put it in my pasture, but we did have some put in out in the sacrifice area. Our property gets pretty swampy in winter and spring, and I don’t have a lot of land, so the horses are stuck in the sacrifice area usually from December to April so they don’t tear up the pastures. It used to get to where the mud was 6-8" deep and they never wanted to leave the barn. We put in 3 french drains running the length of the area, and they drain to a shallow ditch. The difference it made is HUGE. Now, at the most, there is 2-3" of mud when it it really wet. The pipes are buried about a foot deep, wrapped with landscape fabric and surrounded with gravel, then the dirt graded back over the top. I was concerned about the possibility that one of the horses could possible sink and step through on of the pipes, but now, because it doesn’t get as muddy, that worry has left my mind completely.

I think for everything, materials and labor, because we did hire someone to do it, the price came to around $1500. If you did it yourself it would probably be less than half that price, but we didn’t have the machinery to do it ourselves. The sacrifice area is about 40ft wide by 100ft long. And that price also included running an extra pipe with a gutter drain in the ground in front of the barn door, because of the lake that I used to get right in that area any time it rained. That drain has it’s own pipe that drains out to a different spot than the others, just because of our layout.

I think it’s been 5-6 years since we did that, and we don’t regret it at all. I do need to get out there this year, because one of the ends of the pipes is starting to look like it is sloping up instead of down into the ditch. So I think I’ll have to dig out the end a bit and push it back down. But that is fairly minor and not a big deal to me. I won’t need anything other than a shovel and some energy!

Goodhors (and dsedler),that is a great write-up! I’d been putting off this sort of work because I thought it would be very expensive, but your price seems very reasonable. Can you tell me what type of contractor it is that has this expertise? I wouldn’t think to look just for a general excavator, but can’t figure out what to call this sort of tile-layer. Thanks!

You may want to find out if any permitting is required to excavate, fill, and change water flow. You may also not want to find out:D

Call your local Soil Conservation Office, They will come out and make a site survey on the land and tell you what they see as “best practices.” They will also alert you to any “alphabet soup” issues (and there can be many).

G.

For French drains to work. Op, you have to be able to lay it at the upper end The land, the higher end, where the water comes from, and use them to drain away from the intended property you want to keep dry. Usually these are set up at the top of a slope and drain away to either side. Is that what wanted?

This is what we did with our paddocks. We put our pipe along the lowest edge of each paddock to collect water off of them. We hired a local guy to dig the ditches with his backhoe and handled the rest (gravel, pipe placement, fabric wrap, backfilling) ourselves.

If your pasture is the low land, and you have manure collecting there, then you should divert away any water that would flow into the pasture. Then also do what you need to drain the pasture.

[QUOTE=alfonsina;8630428]
Goodhors (and dsedler),that is a great write-up! I’d been putting off this sort of work because I thought it would be very expensive, but your price seems very reasonable. Can you tell me what type of contractor it is that has this expertise? I wouldn’t think to look just for a general excavator, but can’t figure out what to call this sort of tile-layer. Thanks![/QUOTE]

We have a friend that has a landscaping business and he did it for us. He also does all of our gravel stuff and and any grading we need done. I don’t think you really need a specialized person for this type of job and I would think that any good landscaper should know how to do all of this type of stuff. The guy we use also does a lot of rock walls and patios, and he knows how to lay the tile correctly.

He was actually the one that suggested we do this. I had originally asked him to price out doing fabric, gravel, and limestone over the whole sacrifice area, because I was so sick of the mud. He said that we should try laying the drain pipes and see how that worked out. He said if I still wasn’t happy with things, they could still do the fabric and gravel right over the pipes. I think he quoted around $5k for all the materials and time it would take to gravel everything, so doing the french drains was also a huge money saver. And I’ve been happy with it so far. Like I said, it still gets muddy but nothing like it used to.

There isn’t really a specific place the water comes from, we are just in an area that is low. It is just a low laying flat spot and once the horses are on it all winter it gets to be knee high mud.

We have two spots that have just have a very gradual lower level than the pasture which eventually meets up to the larger ditch that flows from our property. I’ll try to get some pictures and maybe that will help explain it more. They are helpful but they don’t take enough of the water.

I’m okay with a little mud in the spring, just hoping for a solution to a little bit less. :slight_smile: So far it seems the cost is roughly 1-5k depending on if you have to hire out or DIY it?

We used a man who digs septic tank systems, swimming pools, drainage solutions. He is listed in the yellow pages under those main catagories, plus Excavations. We met him when we needed a horse buried, he came promptly on a Holiday, did a very nice, neat job, quite respectful with the horse body.

He and his workers are VERY precise with the bucket, dig neat ditches, square holes, clean up as well as possible after, considering they are using an excavator tool for digging.

Mine might be less expensive because he does “farm stuff” more than ultra-precise work of landscaping in yards or around homes. Could be the differences are just the areas’ general pricing for various locales.

We didn’t do the pea stone, considered the sock covering on the perforated pipe to be adequate dirt protection in letting water enter the pipe. The Excavator did not recommend putting in extra pea gravel or crushed stone over the pipe when refilling the length of the trench. Could be a difference in our dirt, compared to the other poster. Even without the pea stone, our pipe moves a LOT of water. The change has removed water spot problems around the arena and pasture areas, even as deep as that pipe is placed. I was pretty surprised myself how quick things dry now with our clay soil, even after heavy rains.

Do consider raising the arena surface to let the water run off easier, then making wide, open ditches on the sides. They do allow nice surface drainage, you could do it yourself, with less invested if keeping the budget low. Our horses graze the ditches when using the arena as a sacrifice area. Ditches are not deep or steep sided there for safety, though horses will jump them if in a hurry to get to the barn! Ha ha

[QUOTE=goodhors;8632433]
The Excavator did not recommend putting in extra pea gravel or crushed stone over the pipe when refilling the length of the trench. Could be a difference in our dirt, compared to the other poster. [/QUOTE]

Not sure if I’m the other poster in reference, however my soil has practically zero percolation. So backfilling with anything other than gravel would prevent water from reaching the buried pipe. If you soil is sandy maybe that’s a nonissue.

[QUOTE=DHCarrotfeeder;8633180]
Not sure if I’m the other poster in reference, however my soil has practically zero percolation. So backfilling with anything other than gravel would prevent water from reaching the buried pipe. If you soil is sandy maybe that’s a nonissue.[/QUOTE]

I was more referencing the person using the landscaper, who mentioned use of geotextile fabric and peastone in fixing their water flow problems with improved drainage solutions.

We specifically asked if we would need some kind of stone as pipe cover to aid the water draining into the pipe itself. He said no. We have an 80 ft clay layer, under the few feet of topsoil here. I would think that clay layer would impede water getting into the pipe at the 4ft depth in clay soil, but excavator did not. He dug and layed the pipe, back-filled with the dirt/clay he piled from making the trench. No purchased stone cost. Water does go into the pipe as needed. Drain pipe works beautifully taking water to drain away from swale, fields, arena.

Doesn’t make sense to me, because a wet handful of clay just gets slippery, not soupy like “regular” dirt does when wet. I “do dirt” in my garden, have experience with water, various dirts, drainages. But here, this location, Excavator is my expert, paid professional, so we went with his call on materials not needed. It saved us money, pipe works as meeded.

A few years ago I helped my boss fix some Big O in the back 40. I was basically there to tell him to quit digging with the mini backhoe when he got to the right depth so I got to see all the layers of soil. I’m here right now to tell you that blue clay fine enough to make fine china teacups drains just fine when given the right opportunity with well situated and properly laid drainage tile.

I will also say that I’d call an agricultural drainage company to get a quote and inquire about what is really needed. Also, probably somewhere in some government office (I’d know where to send you in Canuckistan) there will likely be a map of your property that shows underground water flow. That is important information to have when getting ready to drain land.

Your land is already low and somewhat wet, don’t make it worse by half-assing the job :slight_smile:

With regard to the “alphabet soup” referenced above, definitely pay attention to whether your land is considered a wetland. Here’s a site where you can drill down to your county, and there are more detailed maps available online and at in your local conservation office. Like someone else said, you may not want to know the answer, but far better than finding out after your contractor has started digging.

Our barn is down hill from the house - so we put a french drain at bottom of slope between house and barn.

Cost - No idea - friend who we helped in other ways, brought his big trencher and dug the trench free. We then filled trench with “garden” (no weed?) cover then black PVC pipe (drain from Barn feed into this pipe) and covered all with large gravel. Works like a charm - barn stays dry.

Now - area is NOT flat - house area is flat, slopes down to barn area and french drain is on the slope before you get to the flat paddock area next to the barn.

You need a slope for a french drain to work because the water has to get to the drain then be carried away by piping.

Piping and weed cover is inexpensive. Trencher would have cost a pretty penny and large gravel was expensive ($500 a load, no idea of the # of load but the trench was over 60 ft long).

French drains don’t need a slope to the land. They need to be properly installed. The barn my horse lives at is on about as flat land as you’ll find. It has French drains around it, no eaves trough. The barn and indoor arena stay dry year round.