Drastic Behavior Change - Dangerous Levels

[beowulf]

@natalien1214

@beowulf Hi! Thank you so much for sharing your experience.

Hard to imagine (2) vets and (2) chiropractors could miss all that, but absolutely possible. They are all great veterinarians.

I don’t believe they took rads of the hocks or suspensory palpitation. Will bring up both. And yes we have done flexions.

Thank you so much, again. I will push back on the vets to investigate back pain and bring up the other two ideas.

It’s less hard to imagine when you consider that on-call vets might not have all the diagnostic tools at their disposal, and can’t diagnose much at all if there are not further diagnostics agreed to by the clients (IE, rads, or hauling to a clinic). Veterinarians are human too, and not all chiros are vets and I don’t ever consider the opinion of a chiropractor to be of any merit WRT soundness because most are not specialized in lameness. That’d be like asking an HVAC expert to diagnose why my oil is leaking in my car. Different trades, both mechanical, but very different trades.

I think findeight is right that it might be time to go to a clinic.

[natalien1214]

@findeight i agree! And appreciate your thoughts. We are looking at logistics to get him to the nearest university clinic. Helpful to come here and hear people say pain, as so many of my barn mates say I don’t ride him tough enough and it is turning to bad behavior. I have no interest in changing my riding style on a horse I have had for all these years and know so well. Thank you!

[natalien1214]

@chai havent tested for Lyme since it is not common in me area, but will absolutely run by the vet. Another horse at my barn was just tested for some changes in behavior. Kissing spine is something that has been checked by a couple of vets, but not with technology and at a clinic. That is the direction I think we are going to go next. Thanks for acknowledging the effort, wasn’t sure how people would take this and I knew going into it, but at desperate to help my guy. I do not want to ride him if he is in pain, my very first goal is his health and happiness. This thread has been very civil and helpful! Thanks again!

[sonata]

I second lyme disease. My mare suddenly changed personality. She started to rear and trying to bite. Had her tested and she was positive. After treatment, she returned to herself

[ladipus]

Was he tested for epm? How was he diagnosed? Also was he tested for Lyme?? That also causes behavior changes …that aside was a thorough lameness exam done? I would have him worked up …could be back pain, neck pain etc …also …ulcers can cause behavioral changes as well

[Synthesis]

@natalien1214

@findeight i agree! And appreciate your thoughts. We are looking at logistics to get him to the nearest university clinic. Helpful to come here and hear people say pain, as so many of my barn mates say I don’t ride him tough enough and it is turning to bad behavior. I have no interest in changing my riding style on a horse I have had for all these years and know so well. Thank you!

If you slip and fall, hurt your back and it randomly spasms when you pick things up, are you not being tough enough or are you injured?5
Horses can’t speak, he’s telling you something hurts. And I think the others are correct when they say KS or CA. Depending on just how he moves under saddle or in hand, something is hurting suddenly and he’s reacting to that. I knew a horse that had been through similar. He was never xrayed for it but the symptoms were classic. He was written off and discarded as “Could but wouldn’t”. Such a sweet sweet horse, he died last year and we miss him a lot

Please get the spinal xrays done and ignore the "Get tough’ until you’ve absolutely ruled out pain. This sounds exactly like pain to me

[bugsynskeeter]

Muscle biopsy for PSSM2?

[JB]

@natalien1214

I have no interest in changing my riding style on a horse I have had for all these years and know so well. Thank you!

Why? The best horsemen adapt their riding style to the physical and mental needs of the horse. They don’t ride the fiery hothead the same way they ride the slug, and they don’t ride the same way on a horse who has been properly trained, with no injuries, from Day 1, the same as the less well trained, or previously injured horse who has some major imbalances to overcome.

A good horseman will absolutely change how they ride the horse they’ve ridden (well) for 10 years, once he’s either become compromised, or when they realize there are some issues they didn’t know about or understand before.

Horses’ needs change. We have to adapt.

[natalien1214]

@JB I have had this horse for 10 years, and he has become dangerous. I am not going to get aggressive and “punish” him if I am not 100% this isn’t pain.

[natalien1214]

@bugsynskeeter haven’t considered. I will look into it. Thanks so much!!

[natalien1214]

@Synthesis Sad to hear about the horse you knew!!! We are really trying everything to get to the bottom of this. Don’t want to write this one off! Such good thoughts on this post, working out logistics to trailer to nearest University. Will continue to ignore the “get toughs”!!! Thank you.

[JB]

@natalien1214

@JB I have had this horse for 10 years, and he has become dangerous. I am not going to get aggressive and “punish” him if I am not 100% this isn’t pain.

My apologies, I entirely misunderstood your comment. Nobody should ever get aggressive and punish a horse, even if it’s not pain :no: Assertion is different from aggression which has a negative emotional context which never serves anyone well.

[Dressurfrau]

Have you had his eyes checked for cysts? They are more common than folks think and really affect their eye sight.

[natalien1214]

@JB No problem! I agree. Not all people think the same, unfortunately!!

[natalien1214]

@Dressurfrau I had his eyes checked by a vet, but no tools or technology were used for detection…Is there equipment that can do a deeper look into the eyes? Thank you!!

[dotneko]

Have the vets considered a brain tumor? Escalation of unpredictable behavior might signal mental problems.

[x]

Lyme can sometimes manifest with a personality change

[2tempe]

EPM can also result in behavioral changes if the parasite impacts the brain. Less common than other symptoms but does occur.

[retiredhorse]

@natalien1214

@findeight i agree! And appreciate your thoughts. We are looking at logistics to get him to the nearest university clinic. Helpful to come here and hear people say pain, as so many of my barn mates say I don’t ride him tough enough and it is turning to bad behavior. I have no interest in changing my riding style on a horse I have had for all these years and know so well. Thank you!

Just throwing this out there, in support of this being a pain issue, not so much that I think this is what your horse has: friend’s horse had similar-sounding behavioral change, especially on the ground. Turned out to have some sort of shoulder injury, but was not lame and would still jump. He became increasingly difficult to lead, especially up to the ring, and protested getting on trailer to go to show, when he previously (and since injury has healed) loaded & led without an issue. A lot of people told her it was a training problem, but she persisted in looking for a physical issue because she knew her horse and knew this was not like him.

[Dressurfrau]

The eyes need to be dilated fully to see the cysts. They can only be seen by an ophthalmic scope if they are small. If there is a possibility to bring him to a vet hospital, I would.

I trained a Fresian that had issues and it was because of her eyes. They “blasted” the cysts and she was just fine after that. Also, I believe Isabell Werth’s Satchmo had floaters which they lasered and he became a different, less spooky horse after that.