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Dressage (and horses) around NYC

Dressage
#1

My husband and I are investigating moving from the Bay Area CA to the NYC area for a better equestrian life. But before we get serious I want to find out the realities of horse keeping on the East coast. At first we will rent a house and board the horses at an established barn - we currently keep the horses at home on a couple of acres. Does anyone have any suggestions as to places/towns we should look at that would be an easy commute into NYC but close enough to rural life that I don’t have to drive an hour each way to ride.

What is the dressage scene like in NY/NJ states? Is one better than the other? How often are shows, which are the big show facilities? What does it cost to enter, say hauling in for one day and doing 2 classes? Is it competitive compared to CA or FL, what is the general standard of riding?

What are boarding facilities and standards of care like? Average prices? I’m guessing any place must have an indoor arena for the winter? Any recommendations of places to visit when we do a reccy trip? Do trainers tend to work out of one barn like here in CA or do they travel? I’m hoping to continue Skype lessons with my current trainer, would barns disallow that?

We will be looking to buy once we’ve settled on an area, probably somewhere big enough to board extra horses to cover costs. What are hay prices, how much would you feed and is it all year round? What are shavings/grain/supplements like in cost?

What is the weather like? Is it really unbearable in August and are the winters brutal? How are the bugs? I have one horse that gets eaten alive by the flies in the summer here.

Is there a bulletin board like BayEquest for the east coast? Any good info/job websites for horsey jobs?

As you can tell, we really are starting out with no info here so any help is greatly appreciated.

TIA

#2

What you you hoping for in a “better equestrian life”?

I used to live in California and while I wasn’t doing dressage there, I did notice that the California Dressage Society is very active. There are also many very good FEI trainers in the bay area as well. By far the biggest problem most people have is in turnout. As you probably already know, at some barns in California, “turnout” is a couple of hours in a small paddock that is large enough for the horse to trot around in, but not actually run or play. Land is at such a premium that most places have so many horses that they just can’t offer substantial turnout to anyone.

If you have your horses at home on several acres that is something to celebrate. Why would you want to leave that? :slight_smile:

Price varies substantially depending on where you live in the general NYC area. For example, an average (nice but not super fancy) barn in westchester with an indoor might run you $1400 for basic board. In Hunterdon County, NJ that same type of place can be found for $800-850. Very fancy facilities may charge around $1000/month.

I spend a lot of time in NYC and can tell you that whatever most boarding stables say about driving time to NYC is not necessarily true. If you live in NYC and are trying to drive out to the barn, I think you would need an absolute minimum of 1 hour driving time to anything in NJ and possibly longer. I can drive from manhattan to the westchester county area in about 1 hour 15 min and that is with average traffic. Driving from NYC to NJ to hunterdon county area farms would take about an hour. If traffic is not bad, you might be able to do it in less if its a place close to 78, but if you are talking rush hour, forget it.

If you are really moving because of a job that you would do in NYC, you would be better off living in NJ and then taking the commuter train into manhattan.

#3

Because at $17 a bale for hay, I’m using 3 a day = $18k a year!! I want grass again!! I’d like to be able to work my butt off to pay someone other than my hay grower.

My husbands job if he transfers will be next to Grand Central station so commute access via train would be easiest. I’ve heard there are bullet trains from NJ towns? His current commute is 1hr 20mins so anything better than that would be a bonus, plus he travels a lot so distance to a good airport is useful.

Looking at comparable property prices at a similar distance to the city, we would double the size of our house and get a pool, acreage and potentially an indoor arena. Thats the ‘better equestrian life’ - is that just a crazy dream?

#4

I’ll take a stab at answering ‘some’ of your questions, but keep in mind it is my personal opinion. My comments in blue.

[QUOTE=oldspice;8850709]
What is the dressage scene like in NY/NJ states? Is one better than the other? How often are shows, which are the big show facilities? What does it cost to enter, say hauling in for one day and doing 2 classes? Is it competitive compared to CA or FL, what is the general standard of riding? I’m in NJ, so not as familiar with the NY shows. If you go to the USDF website, you can see the number of shows in Area 1 (NJ) and Area 8 (NY). There are a lot of shows here in NJ, but many of them are one-day shows with no stabling. I’d say $150 for two classes. That would be $50 a class plus office fee, plus drug fee. Two of the most used venues are the New Jersey Horse Park and the Sussex Show Grounds. They have multi-day shows. There is a show within an hour from me almost every weekend.

I can’t compare to CA, but I would say it is not as competitive as Florida’s Wellington area. Other parts of Florida (imo) are not as competitive as Wellington. There are a lot of big name trainers in NJ and NY.

What are boarding facilities and standards of care like? Average prices? I’m guessing any place must have an indoor arena for the winter? Any recommendations of places to visit when we do a reccy trip? Do trainers tend to work out of one barn like here in CA or do they travel? I’m hoping to continue Skype lessons with my current trainer, would barns disallow that? I’d estimate a little higher than Snicklefritz in NJ. A nice place would be 1k. The thing is though that most places like that won’t take boarders unless they are in training. The better trainers only travel to give clinics. The really good ones don’t have time to travel to barns to give one lesson here or there (jmho).

We will be looking to buy once we’ve settled on an area, probably somewhere big enough to board extra horses to cover costs. What are hay prices, how much would you feed and is it all year round? What are shavings/grain/supplements like in cost?Here in Hunterdon County there are a lot of hay growers. Same in NY. The problem is that sometimes the weather (too much rain/not enough rain) will give you a bad hay year. Typically, you can get a decent 40 pound bale of orchard grass for $6 plus delivery. Shavings are around $6 a bag at Tractor Supply. I would guess Grain prices are the same all over?? Same with supplements. I feed Triple Crown Sr. and that is one of the more expensive feeds. It is ~$22 a 50 pound bag. So…most grains would be less than that. I would say that most people feed hay year round except for those that have their horses on pasture 24/7. Not many show horses live that life. Usually show barns feed 3x a day hay and grain and that is included in the board price.

What is the weather like? Is it really unbearable in August and are the winters brutal? How are the bugs? I have one horse that gets eaten alive by the flies in the summer here. It’s not ‘unbearable’ but this year we had a real hot August. My only riding is in an indoor, so it was pretty sweltering in there. The good boarding barns have both outdoor and indoor arenas. Bugs can be bad, but I really have no basis of comparison to how they are in other states. Depending on the month, we will get black flies, greeted flies, big bomber flies, and knats. You certainly would not want to turn out a horse in the hottest part of the day without a fly sheet…

Is there a bulletin board like BayEquest for the east coast? Any good info/job websites for horsey jobs?

As you can tell, we really are starting out with no info here so any help is greatly appreciated.

TIA[/QUOTE]

#5

OP, you can get some idea of horse farm prices here. Lots of bargains on the market.

https://www.horseproperties.net/properties/New+Jersey

#6

Having grown up on the east coast and midwest I will just say there is no way I would give up living in the Bay Area and moving east if you are a serious rider. I can’t even explain what it is like to ride when it is -20.

I live in the Bay Area, so I feel your pain about prices and turnout but I imagine if I moved back east I would end up riding maybe half as much as I do now.

#7

If your husband is working near Grand Central, you definitely want to be in Westchester/CT. Trains from NJ go into Penn Station, which is a good 20 minute walk from GC.

I currently live near the Fleetwood train station, with a 28 minute trip into city at rush hour. Southern Westchester is more apartments and small houses. Going further north, you can get into the Northern Westchester/Putnam area with a train ride of about an hour and larger pieces of land.

I ride at a private barn just over the border in Putnam County, we have an indoor and all day turnout with top care for $1150 per month. From southern Westchester, I can get to the barn in about 35 minutes. Larger “show” barns will run quite a bit more per month. We do allow outside trainers but most don’t. I think generally the smaller/private places will allow outside training and the larger/show barns may not.

Feel free to PM if you have questions. I don’t show but have lived in this area most of my life.

#8

[QUOTE=exploding pony;8850779]
there is no way I would give up living in the Bay Area and moving east if you are a serious rider. [/QUOTE]

Except that all the big show centers are over there - Kentucky, Devon, Lamplight and even Florida is doable. I totally get what you mean but I’m central valley and have to ride in 100+ temps so its 50:50 on weather.

#9

I suppose - there is southern Ca though. If you have never lived in the frozen north, I can’t even explain what it is like.

Keep in mind many of the BNTs go to FL for the winter, so you would want to plan for that.

#10

Exploding Pony, I don’t know where you have lived in the East, but it never gets anywhere close to minus zero here. Here is a record of recent temps where I live. It’s actually quite nice riding in the indoor in the winter and I even prefer it to summer riding. The horses love the cold weather too. From previous discussions, we all know that some of us feel turnout on grass patures are a must have.

http://www.usclimatedata.com/climate/flemington/new-jersey/united-states/usnj0155

#11

Grew up in New England, so perhaps it is much warmer in NY/NJ?

#12

I’m in CT, with my horses in Westchester, NY, so I’m happy to answer your questions if you are looking to be on this side of the river - i.e. on a train line that runs into Grand Central instead of Penn Station. PM me or email me - much to much info to type out right now.

Board on this side is more expensive within an hour of the city than NJ - think ~ $2500/horse. If you’re willing to go farther out, you’ll find lower prices. Most trainers will go south from January through March - but not all.

In terms of buying a place, look at listings in Bedford, NY and North Salem, NY to get a sense of what is available in horsey towns. You can also check out some towns just over the border into CT - Danbury, Ridgefield, Westport, North Stamford.

#13

Live in Westchester if you or your spouse will be commuting to midtown manhattan for work. Then board your horses in Northern Westchester, or Greenwich CT area.

With the above arrangement, you can take a train to NYC (most stations have four trains per hour, and it takes 30 to 40 minutes to Grand Central). Then from your home you will travel 20 to 35 minutes by car to your barn.

Nice facilities with top notch care (such as free choice hay, grass turn-out, great footing in the arena, night checks and competent experienced barn management) will be more like $1200/month and above. (To be honest, it might be “way” above - there are some 5-star barns all around).

#14

Regarding what ToN said, I don’t think you have to spend $1k/month to board at a nice place in NJ. If you look, you can find nice places with good footing, good care, etc. for the prices I mentioned, i.e. $800-850.

If you want fancy with many amenities, then maybe you’d have to spend $1k+ depending on the area.

you may also want to take property taxes into consideration. They are high in westchester county area of NY and not as bad in NJ.

#15

[QUOTE=oldspice;8850709]
My husband and I are investigating moving from the Bay Area CA to the NYC area for a better equestrian life. But before we get serious I want to find out the realities of horse keeping on the East coast. At first we will rent a house and board the horses at an established barn - we currently keep the horses at home on a couple of acres. Does anyone have any suggestions as to places/towns we should look at that would be an easy commute into NYC but close enough to rural life that I don’t have to drive an hour each way to ride.

****I would, from there, investigate real estate sales, and potential in both NJ and the counties above NYC. I suspect NJ is less expensive. Properties with grass should be available in either location. Horse care standards vary frm barn to barn and need to be individually assessed.

What is the dressage scene like in NY/NJ states? Is one better than the other? How often are shows, which are the big show facilities? What does it cost to enter, say hauling in for one day and doing 2 classes? Is it competitive compared to CA or FL, what is the general standard of riding?

***Both states have active dressage communities. There are quite a few in Central NJ, along with excellent instructors.

What are boarding facilities and standards of care like? Average prices? I’m guessing any place must have an indoor arena for the winter? Any recommendations of places to visit when we do a reccy trip? Do trainers tend to work out of one barn like here in CA or do they travel? I’m hoping to continue Skype lessons with my current trainer, would barns disallow that?

We will be looking to buy once we’ve settled on an area, probably somewhere big enough to board extra horses to cover costs. What are hay prices, how much would you feed and is it all year round? What are shavings/grain/supplements like in cost?

***I haven’t checked hay price in NJ in ages. But it is far more reasonable than CA. Depending on the size of the pasture and its quality, grazing in central NJ is a possibility from early to mid April , until mid Nov-Dec. depending on the weather that year.

What is the weather like? Is it really unbearable in August and are the winters brutal? How are the bugs? I have one horse that gets eaten alive by the flies in the summer here.

***Weather is dependent on the year-some years summer is great, this year had some hot humid moments. Bugs are dependent on location. In some areas, with woods and swamps they are awful, other areas not so bad. Flyspray is a way of life for bugs, and ticks. Vaccinations for the various encephalitis, etc are absolutely necessary.

Is there a bulletin board like BayEquest for the east coast? Any good info/job websites for horsey jobs?

As you can tell, we really are starting out with no info here so any help is greatly appreciated.

TIA[/QUOTE]
I have marked my answers with ***
Hope this helps!

#16

[QUOTE=ToN Farm;8850778]
OP, you can get some idea of horse farm prices here. Lots of bargains on the market.

https://www.horseproperties.net/properties/New+Jersey[/QUOTE]

Wow—these seem like amazing bargains, especially compared to bay are prices. Not all are great for a train commute, but this should inspire some investigations for the OP.

#17

I lived just over the line from Westchester in CT for 8 years. We were about an hour and ten minutes by train into NYC in Fairfield county - which was very horsey and offered a nice balance between amenities (nice restaurants, excellent schools, convenient access to the airport) and great training, shows, vets, farriers and so forth.

We often talked about buying a small farm, and looked at lots of properties, but frankly with the winter weather and my work schedule, we decided to just live close to a fabulous boarding /training facility. They had a beautiful massive indoor - IMO, a necessity for northeastern winters! as well as gorgeous property to hack out on, outdoor rings with great footing, and a nice community of other adult amateurs to enjoy it all with.

OP - if you want more details about that area, feel free to shoot me a PM.

#18

As someone who once lived in the Bay Area and had horses, I would have to remind you about winter. Ugh. It is sooooooooooo cold out here (Jersey). If I could move back to Cali, I’d do it in a heartbeat.

#19

Thanks for all the info so far, lots to think about. I had a look at the property listings and drooled. Quite honestly, we’ll get so much more property for the same price as we’ll sell here for.

My husband grew up in Darien CT, and liked it but seems set on NY/NJ this time around. I like the idea of Westchester county as its good for the commute and also very horsey. We were looking at Orange county too but its that too far for a realistic commute everyday? I need to do more investigation into NJ and the trainlines, I heard something about bullet trains once but how fast are they and where do they go from?

I saw some boarding places out in NJ state that were $650. It seems like that is on the low end for board? I’m hoping boarding will be temporary, maybe 3-6 months. Especially as I’m bringing 4 horses over.

One NY realtor told me that if you have over 10 horses and bring in $10k+ in revenue then you qualify for property tax exemptions. Is that correct? Anything similar in NJ?

I’ll pm those who offered nearer the move time to get specific info. Thanks again

#20

[QUOTE=oldspice;8852306]
Thanks for all the info so far, lots to think about. I had a look at the property listings and drooled. Quite honestly, we’ll get so much more property for the same price as we’ll sell here for.

My husband grew up in Darien CT, and liked it but seems set on NY/NJ this time around. I like the idea of Westchester county as its good for the commute and also very horsey. We were looking at Orange county too but its that too far for a realistic commute everyday?[/QUOTE]

I live in Orange Co.
Many NYPD and FDNY live here as this is the farthest they can be from NYC per their job requirements [and find affordable homes/good schools]
Most in this area commute to the city for work.
If you are not yourself working in NYC and need to have a job, you better like retail. :frowning:

Also check taxes, many of the more commuter friendly locals ding you in taxes. And you may not get the services you would expect for those.

[QUOTE=oldspice;8852306]
I need to do more investigation into NJ and the trainlines, I heard something about bullet trains once but how fast are they and where do they go from?

I saw some boarding places out in NJ state that were $650. It seems like that is on the low end for board? I’m hoping boarding will be temporary, maybe 3-6 months. Especially as I’m bringing 4 horses over.

One NY realtor told me that if you have over 10 horses and bring in $10k+ in revenue then you qualify for property tax exemptions. Is that correct? Anything similar in NJ? [/QUOTE]

Yes and no.
The income in NY has to be from… agriculture. Boarding does not qualify. I don’t think breeding does either, but check that. People I know who had their own farms covered that $10k by leasing their land to hay producers, or other agriculture ventures.

There are some nice Dressage barns in my area. And some BNT come to the area regularly as well. Lendon Grey is one, Heather Mason another.

.

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