Dressage Freestyle, anyone watching?

[DMK]

@passagedreamer;3457443

Anne FS : you sound like a jealous 12 teenager

Yes, a “12 teenager” is EXACTLY what comes to mind when I think of Anne FS. Or it will be as soon as I figure out precisely what a “12 teenager” is. But I’m sure she is one. She seems the type, you know… :lol:

I come from the hunter world, where minor disobediences generally results in a horse being totally knocked out of contention no matter how brilliant they may have negotiated the fences. I am fully aware that I live in the other extreme, and trust me, sometimes it seems harsh. But dressage seems to completely embraced the other extreme. From the outside looking in, it appears if your horse is extravagant and brilliant in his movements, running backwards in the middle of a movement is just not a deal breaker anymore. Can’t say I’m impressed with that aspect of the sport.

[Anne_FS]

[QUOTE=DMK;3457696]
Yes, a “12 teenager” is EXACTLY what comes to mind when I think of Anne FS. Or it will be as soon as I figure out precisely what a “12 teenager” is.[/QUOTE]

ROTFL!! I was wondering if anyone else caught that. I should’ve known you would!

In her defense, I’m sure she didn’t mean to write “a 12yo teenager” which would be an instant COH classic, but instead probably meant that I’m as annoying as 12 teenagers, which I sadly cannot deny.

[AM1]

Jasper’s Mom, movement 16 is the entrance and halt as well as the halt at the end. I pulled up the freestyle score sheet and compared the movements. I didn’t see the entrance so she may have earned some points there. She does seem to be able to actually halt at the beginning of the test.

[Jasper_sMom]

[QUOTE=AM;3457722]
Jasper’s Mom, movement 16 is the entrance and halt as well as the halt at the end. I pulled up the freestyle score sheet and compared the movements. I didn’t see the entrance so she may have earned some points there. She does seem to be able to actually halt at the beginning of the test.[/QUOTE]

OK, that makes a little more sense, I guess. Odd that the two movements are combined, though.

[BLBGP]

OK, so when Satchmo did his thing the first night, they called it a “spook”. This time, a spook can’t be the answer…It looks like he’s ouchy in those moments and trying to run from pain. But then he continues on perfectly. Dressage folks, do you know what it is?

[dressagetraks]

Just watched it again. Good ride, although I liked Bonfire’s in 1996 more. But definitely no final halt, no salute, which by the above-cited FEI rule should mean elimination. You know, as a sign of respect, she could at least salute the judges at the end before waving to the crowd, even if she did already know she had won and deliberately decide that her horse didn’t really need to halt. Not only should she salute, it is REQUIRED.

The rider on the first day on the Andalusian (I think, or Lusitano, something of that ilk), where the horse totally freaked and went into rearing fits, did manage to give a very nice salute to the judge as he retired, in spite of being on the most freaked-out and ready-to-explode horse I’ve seen so far at the Games.

I know Anky doesn’t care what I think, but for my own personal opinion, which again with $4 will buy you a gallon of gas, I will disqualify Anky under the FEI rule above that clearly states competitors not halting and saluting judges will be eliminated. That’s not based on my opinion of riders, training styles, whether she is/is not the spawn of Satan, or anything else subjective, but based on the FEI rules governing her event, which as everybody pointed out with Phillip Dutton, every competitor should know.

Gold to Isabell, not that Satchmo deserved it today, but Isabell deserves an award for nerves of steel.
Silver to Heike. Beautiful horse I hadn’t seen before, good rider who also seems like a nice person. Very neat to see her reactions afterwards.
Bronze to Steffen. Whoo-hoo, Steffen!

So there. Not that Anky will care.

[Glimmerglass]

I’ll say that I personally cannot stand to ride dressage but I can certainly admire, appreciate, and enjoy watching the freestyle

Guardian (UK) 8-20-08

Olympic horses aren’t just great athletes. They got rhythm. And what’s more, they got music.

Some even say they can dance.

Swedish rider Jan Brink, who rode his longtime stallion Briar to 10th place through a set of sultry Latin American and Spanish tracks, said the secret was to match the music to the horse.

“He’s a little bit of a Latino guy you know,” said Brink, noting his mount’s need for a bit of Brazilian samba from time to time. “It’s fitting to his way of moving, he’s very powerful in his moving and has a lot of knee action.”

For such a very little country I will say that Denmark kicks a lot of countries butts in this one area. My late maternal grandparents both were born and raised in Denmark and my sister lives in Copenhagen now so I have to take my hat off the squad they sent. Tillykke!

ps - I don’t think that Steve Miller (whom I’ve met) would’ve thought a horse would dance to his song Abracadabra

[akrogirl]

I am so mad at Oxygen. I really wanted to record Steffan’s wonderful ride and what do they do? - cut him off a few seconds in so they could go to commercial!$!$! What disrespect for Steffan’s great effort.

[lark_berry]

A few of the posters on this thread have trained and ridden GP. I don’t think so many have competed internationally.
Those of you who focus on Anky’s halts…it has been stated over and over again that the marks reflect the quality. They are lousy marks. The rest of the test ALSO reflects the quality.

As many of you don’t seem to have read what has been consistently reiterated on this board and in myriad other places, I suggest that you look at the individual marks from each judge for each ride. Do it while you replay the videos…that might help

Satchmo had two real live “_ _ _ _ you” moments. It happens. Dressage is hard. International competition is hard. Maintaining the trust in a horse at this level is really hard. Horses are horses and while they mostly do what we ask, sometimes they JUST SAY NO.

Yes, it is political. You figure out a way to make it objective. Good luck with that.

Judge’s forums try to address many of these issues, but, people are still people, with all the inherent strengths and weaknesses. Nationalism will often show up in the panel, no matter what rules are put forth.

I congratulate the winners. I congratulate the runners-up. They got there. They tried their best and if they fell short, it was in attempting to touch the stars.

[monday]

[QUOTE=akrogirl;3457889]
I am so mad at Oxygen. I really wanted to record Steffan’s wonderful ride and what do they do? - cut him off a few seconds in so they could go to commercial!$!$! What disrespect for Steffan’s great effort.[/QUOTE]

Its worth it to go watch the online video just for his ride alone. Its fun, has good music, and even caused my non-horsey boyfriend to sit up and ask if that horse was doing the safety dance.

[akrogirl]

[QUOTE=monday;3457914]
Its worth it to go watch the online video just for his ride alone. Its fun, has good music, and even caused my non-horsey boyfriend to sit up and ask if that horse was doing the safety dance.[/QUOTE]

Agreed - I watched it live this morning and loved it, which is why I wanted to get a recording

[TraksRuleDutchDrool]

[QUOTE=lark berry;3457905]
A few of the posters on this thread have trained and ridden GP. I don’t think so many have competed internationally.
Those of you who focus on Anky’s halts…it has been stated over and over again that the marks reflect the quality. They are lousy marks. The rest of the test ALSO reflects the quality.

As many of you don’t seem to have read what has been consistently reiterated on this board and in myriad other places, I suggest that you look at the individual marks from each judge for each ride. Do it while you replay the videos…that might help

Satchmo had two real live “_ _ _ _ you” moments. It happens. Dressage is hard. International competition is hard. Maintaining the trust in a horse at this level is really hard. Horses are horses and while they mostly do what we ask, sometimes they JUST SAY NO.

Yes, it is political. You figure out a way to make it objective. Good luck with that.

Judge’s forums try to address many of these issues, but, people are still people, with all the inherent strengths and weaknesses. Nationalism will often show up in the panel, no matter what rules are put forth.

I congratulate the winners. I congratulate the runners-up. They got there. They tried their best and if they fell short, it was in attempting to touch the stars.[/QUOTE]

You’re a very forgiving person and I can appreciate your realism. However this in no way addresses not following the rules we all need to follow…all of us competing, from training 1 to International Grand Prix Freestyle. I think DressageTraks (and a couple others) says it best no halt and salute = elimination, there is nothing to be subjective, objective, or political about. How is that not black and white?

[Schiffon]

[QUOTE=Eclectic Horseman;3456957]
My thought in the walk shortly after the piaffe backwards blow, was that Satchmo looked quite short on his right hind. Certainly could have whacked or tweaked himself during his outburst, but you gotta wonder whether something may be cooking, too. The veterinary diagnostics available aren’t equal to humans–and even with humans it is sometimes hard to figure out when something is NQR, such as nerve pain.
QUOTE]

I agree he was short in the right hind in the walk.

During the piaffe pirouette I think the blowup started with Satchmo stepping on his left hind with the right, which is the same one that was stepped on and kicked out with in the GP. Wonder if perhaps this piaffe problem started with doing the pirouettes.

I agree with the placings, if not the exact scoring.
If you compete in a judged sport, you are acknowledging that it is subjective and as many times as you get ripped off, there will be equally as many times where you get higher scores than you deserve.

I couldn’t believe how the NBC commentators were going on and on today about how unfair it was that Nastia Luikin got the silver medal on bars when she and the Chinese girl tied and based on the pre-written tie-breaking criteria, she lost out. Sure, its too bad that it has to come down to 0.1 point from one judge, but thems the rules! I thought it was interesting how gymnastics has implemented a policy that no judges are allowed from any country with a competitor in the individual events. How would we like a dressage final with no judges from Germany, the Netherlands, or the US? Despite the possibilities of nationalism, like claimed here today with the German judge, I think the overall quality of the judging would go down if the entire panel was from countries with a lower overall standard of dressage. The scores would be even more over the place and perhaps more subject to the glow of BNRs.

[Lexi]

@VACavalier;3456789

From the USDF Directory-

"USEF & FEI Rules for FEI-Level Freestyles

At the beginning and end, a halt with a salute is compulsory. Note: There is no recommendation or requirement that the competitor must face C for the halt and salute. A rider who does not halt for the salute is eliminated"

(Italics mine)

Well that’s interesting.

a reference to a USDF publication for an FEI rule is not only not authoritative, it’s downright foolish. Can you provide a reference to an actual FEI rule (as opposed to what USDF or USEF says is an FEI rule, which is often incorrect) that states that failure to halt/salute incurs elimination?

my FEI rule book says the following:

Article 430 EXECUTION OF THE TESTS

16. Details to the Freestyle Test
    A rider must enter the arena within 20 seconds of the music starting.
    Exceeding 20 seconds will entail elimination. The music must cease at the final salute.
    At the beginning and end of a Freestyle Test a halt for the salute is
    compulsory. The test time will start after the rider moves forward after the
    halt.
    so, when a rule states that X is compulsory, and failure to do X incurs elimination, and then next mentions that Y is compulsory, but does not say that failure to do Y incurs elimination, what that means is that BOTH are compulsory, but only X incurs elimination, and Y does not. Regardless of what USDF (LOL) says.

[Sabine]

[Quote=I agree he was short in the right hind in the walk.

During the piaffe pirouette I think the blowup started with Satchmo stepping on his left hind with the right, which is the same one that was stepped on and kicked out with in the GP. Wonder if perhaps this piaffe problem started with doing the pirouettes.

[/QUOTE]

I do also agree with you and I believe it’s probably a cyatic (sp?) nerve issue- which could have been caused by some transportation problem or anything involving the sacrum…I am sure they can recognize it and fix it with body work= but of course the timing couldn’t have been worse…which leads me to ask: do the teams bring their bodyworkers to the games?

[Mardi]

[QUOTE=dressagetraks;3457356]
Interesting quote on COTH coverage from Anky herself, in light of the above rule cited about halt being required. She admits that Salinero did not halt, says she waited for him to do so and realized he had not halted, but knew that she had already won and thought, “Oh, he doesn’t have to do this.”

Um, actually, technically, judging from the above RULE, yes, he does, Anky.[/QUOTE]

See what I mean ?

I’m going to change what I wrote before.

For the #1 rider in the world not to be able to accomplish a halt and a salute to THE JUDGES at the end of her test in the Olympic games is not sloppy riding.

Its arrogance.

And I still don’t care who you are, Anky.

[Mardi]

And furthermore, to admit and say outloud that you knew that you had already won, (and hence no halt/salute required), although the score and results were not yet official, could not be more ungracious, nor more wrought with self-importance.

Unbelievable…

[Roan]

OFF WITH 'ER 'ED!

[Stubborn_Mare]

For informational purposes, I would estimate that at least 30% of the riders did not perform a traditional halt/salute at the end of their test. Should we elimiate them all? Also, the problem Satchmo had in the piaffe is an example of his old tendency to anticipate and become anxious/resistant - I doubt its likely to be a sudden injury problem.

For those of you who aren’t dressage riders/trainers, keep in mind that in the freestyle there’s opportunity to try again if you fail a movement on the first attempt. Also try to remember that this discipline isn’t about perfection - it’s about the impossible quest for perfection and mistakes are allowed, they are marked and then the next movement is marked separately and without bias.

I think we all need to move beyond this obsession with the top placings in dressage - dressage horses are such varied animals, and at this high level there are so very many aspects to consider, so really any top ten placing should be considered a great victory. There is not too much separating a 70% from a 75% for example - only an average of .5 per movement. So really, why not be celebrating the success of all those who performed to their best?? It’s a shame that we become so concerned with the top few scores we don’t even spend time enjoying some of the stellar work that was on display here.

[slc2]

Why not do that? Because that would require some sportsmanship.