Dressage horse lease

[SuzieQue]

I need opinions on my situation. I returned to riding about 6 years ago with a former riding instructor from my youth (I’m now 50). To begin with it’s been great as I ride with several friends who also lease their horses off him and it’s been mainly a positive experience for us all and I’ve managed to get back and improve my riding I think to an even better stage than previously when I owned and competed my horses. These days my primary focus is on dressage and the horse I have ended up with is reasonably good at this as he is a nice schoolmaster type.

My issue is that our instructor is good at what he does (instructing) and has rebuilt his business up in the last couple of years after it went through a bad patch when he fell out with his last business partner. We supported him during this time with our leases so he could continue to pay his bills etc. However of late we have noticed a shift in his attitude towards us. I found out he has been using my horse and a couple of others for the odd lesson as he’s been getting really busy and is short of horses. He did ask me initially several times which I didn’t mind but then then it became obvious that my horse was gtg used more than the asking was occurring. I’ve been paying a full lease and have not been that happy about this so I questioned him about it. He said he’s getting really busy and needs to use my horse. So we discussed this and agreed we would split the expenses he cud use him for the odd lesson. Then I find out through the grapevine that he has part leased my horse to another lady! I was shocked as he didn’t discuss this situation with me and has just assumed that I’d be ok with it.

However upon questioning him he said she’s a nice lady and doesn’t want to compete etc and will just ride at my place (we go down the road to a big equestrian park) for our lessons. I am still the main lessee and you are just to share the expenses. He has not put this in writing as is quite useless in this way! Which I feel a bit uneasy about as their could be some issues in the future. I have met with this woman as she approached my friend who told her our situation. I have written to her in a semi formal email explaining what my lease has been and how it could work out between us moving forward offering her to give me some feedback of what her requirements might be etc. I do feel under the circumstances I’ve been very fair!

Although I’m a little annoyed that this took place without any real discussions between us all. Although he does own the horse and I guess I’d rather have one other person involved that I know about. I’m
trying not to feel threatened as I’ve grown to love this horse so much. I guess as long as we can agree on the finer details it might work out ok. I also realise I’d be hard pressed to find another horse as good as him to compete on unless I spent a lot of my own money etc. My kids are still in college for another year or so then my husband and I may start to travel a bit in the future. So I could possibly only ride for another year or two and don’t want the responsibility of full horse ownership for this reason and also I live in town so would have to board my horse somewhere which would be even more expense.

I’m just planning to carry on for now and see how it all works out she does seem nice but I also don’t want to get too friendly either or lose the control I’ve had as although she can ride I’m at a different level altogether. I guess it’s more about the money to him but has made me feel a bit vulnerable.

Thoughts on how to handle this situation moving forward would be helpful

[emipou]

There are plenty of great instructors out there who won’t disrespect you or your horse or property. I would leave as soon as possible. And in the meantime, I would revoke any permission to use my horse for other lessons.

[Cardboardoux]

This just sounds odd. How did he think you would find out, when you are both standing by the saddle?
How many days a week does your lease include? How many days are she going to have?
This seems like a ugly breech of contract. I would not be happy.

[Nestor]

Just no. You are paying this horse’s expenses as part of a full lease? And now he’s added a second, part-lease rider? Even if he claims you will now be splitting the horse’s expenses, you just lost half of your riding time without any notice. WTH?

[emipou]

This was a little confusing to me at first. Are you a full or partial lease? What does your lease include? What is he giving to the other student?

As a half lessee who has had to share a horse, I get the frustration completely. But the horse is not yours. So long as you are receiving your end of the lease agreement, and the other student isn’t totally tiring the horse out, nothing wrong is really happening. If the situation doesn’t work for you though, consider finding a new situation.

[atlatl]

A good example of why it’s always it’s best to put things in writing. I’d ask your instructor to do that so that there are no misunderstandings on anyone’s part. If what he’s willing to commit to doesn’t work for you; then look elsewhere.

Good Luck.

[retiredhorse]

@SuzieQue

I am still the main lessee and you are just to share the expenses. He has not put this in writing as is quite useless in this way! Which I feel a bit uneasy about as their could be some issues in the future. I have met with this woman as she approached my friend who told her our situation. I have written to her in a semi formal email explaining what my lease has been and how it could work out between us moving forward offering her to give me some feedback of what her requirements might be etc. I do feel under the circumstances I’ve been very fair!

I think you need to talk to your trainer and get a contract in place, whether it’s a full lease or half lease (and what you’re paying should reflect that!). This a problem with HIM and not the other rider.

I understand you are trying to work out schedule/agreement with her, but ultimately it’s the trainer who is having issues with his business (needs more horses or to charge enough not to have to double up on leases, doesn’t have contracts, makes clients feel unsure and taken advantage of, etc).

Even if you and this other person work out an arrangement, it won’t matter if trainer decides he needs horse for yet another person or something else, and isn’t considering your priorities as a paying client.

[bt1]

He owns the horse therefore does not have to ask your permission to do anything he wants with the horse. Not saying it is a nice thing to do but he could sell the horse tomorrow and all he is really obligated to do is refund your unused lease fee if you don’t want to lease a different horse.

[soloudinhere]

@bt

He owns the horse therefore does not have to ask your permission to do anything he wants with the horse. Not saying it is a nice thing to do but he could sell the horse tomorrow and all he is really obligated to do is refund your unused lease fee if you don’t want to lease a different horse.

He’s obligated to do whatever is in the contract until such time as a court of law deems he doesn’t have to.

if there’s a termination clause he actually may not be able to sell the horse tomorrow. We have no idea.

either way he sounds like a tool and I’d move on. He’s not running his business in a successful way if this is going on and he is trying to squeeze more money out of his clients. That never ends well so I’d personally find a trainer with better business sense.

[atlatl]

@soloudinhere

He’s obligated to do whatever is in the contract until such time as a court of law deems he doesn’t have to.

if there’s a termination clause he actually may not be able to sell the horse tomorrow. We have no idea.

either way he sounds like a tool and I’d move on. He’s not running his business in a successful way if this is going on and he is trying to squeeze more money out of his clients. That never ends well so I’d personally find a trainer with better business sense.

All true; if there is a contract. My sense from the OP is that there is not which is another reason to move on.

[Smthn_Like_Olivia]

So ummm…are you doing a full lease, the other party doing a partial lease, AND the horse continues to be used for lessons?? If so, this agreement would be done for me…

[MissAriel]

1. The horse belongs to your trainer. Unless you have a contract (and it sounds like you don’t) you have no control over the horse. This is the downside to leasing. As you know there are still very valid reasons that a lease can be your best option (kids in college, travel, etc), but that flexibility comes with compromises.

2. You say in your post you and your friends were full leasing horses to support him, and the implication is that you wouldn’t have full leased otherwise. If trainer knows the horses are under-utilized, it shouldn’t be a problem to use them for extra lessons, although there should be clear communication so they don’t get overused.

3. The level of the other rider is irrelevant - the horse is not yours to decide if that is a problem or not.

4. From what you say, I truly can’t tell if this is a case of shady business tactics or just sloppy scheduling and communication habits. I have no patience at all for the former, but a bit more for the latter, if there are other things that make up for it - like the instruction you are getting that has you progressing on a suitable schoolmaster.

5. Find some time for you, trainer and other leaser to sit down for 15 minutes and decide what the terms of the agreement will be. Put it in writing.

[Stacie]

What percentage of the original lease are you now paying? How much of the vet/farrier are you paying? How many days a week do you ride? Sounds to me like more than half the rides on the horse are going to be for lessons and for the other leaser. Who owns the saddle and bridle? Are you using his or is he using yours?

[Stacie]

So… What did you decide?

[right_horse_at_the_right_time]

I had this done to me-half leased another horse with very specific terms and then found out that the horse was part leased to another person and owner did not have the horse in half training as was the agreement. I bowed out. But before I did, I consulted three equine attorneys and all said that I could get all of my money back since day 1 because the agreement had not been adhered to since day 1 unbeknownst to me.

there was a lot of broken trust here, and things that occurred when I was not at the barn.

I walked away from the lease and severed ties with the owner…not worth the drama. Lovely horse, though.

[SuzieQue]

Wow this is something more common that I realised. Unfortunately my instructor is not big on written contracts and the previous one was only done because he was desperate at the time so to speak. I am still paying the same as previously to lease (she’s paying the same as me I found out) his reasoning for that he said previously it was a discounted lease. He is halving all the other expenses between her and I.

I do use his saddle though but all the other gea including the covers etc are mine.
She is using most of his gear atm but Is planning to get Her own if it works out. I aim to ride about 3 times a week. So far the weekends have not been a problem as she goes in the morning and me in the afternoon. But I work a 4 day week and want to ride on Friday’s but at this stage she’s in a Friday lesson in the afternoon which is a nuscience as it sometimes clashes with when I want to ride too!

I’m going to suggest we do turn about for this lesson if it’s going to be a regular thing as my friends ride in it so I want to ride with them. I’m going to have a chat with him and her. He’s just broken his ankle after a fall from a horse last weekend and is super busy at the moment. So possibly not the best time to approach it but but I do need to sort it out properly with them both. As far as I’m aware it’s just her and I are riding the horse and he’s not being used for any other lessons etc at this stage but I’m keeping an eye out for any signs or evidence as I would definitely walk away if this was happens.

[Libby2563]

This is all pretty confusing. You mention a “previous contract.” What does it say about how many days you get to use the horse and whether it is also available to others? Depending on the answer to that, he may have violated your contract.

Even if he hasn’t, it sounds like this lease horse is being ridden multiple times per day and your main issue is with the timing of the rides? What level are you and the other lessee riding? That seems like a lot of riding for the horse, whom I suspect the trainer will also be using in other lessons even though you aren’t aware of it right now. This just doesn’t sound like a good situation for anyone except the trainer. Yes, it’s his horse, but IMO he isn’t demonstrating much concern for your happiness as his client (and maybe not for the horse’s welfare either). I would start looking for other options.

[SuzieQue]

An update on my situation with this just so other people don’t fall into anything similar in retrospect. I can look at it more objectively now and wonder whether I should/could have done anything differently at the time as I have thought a lot about this but as every horsey person knows you build such a bond with your animal that it’s hard just to walk away and the longer you have ridden the horse the even harder it is but being forever hopeful that things might change, workout or improve. Much like being in a bad relationship I guess as it certainly felt very much like that towards the end.

So I hung in with this arrangement for another 12 months to see if it would work out sharing and I have to say at times it worked out ok but as time went on it became obvious that this other person and I had very different ideas on horse management and other things which I found increasing frustrating to deal with eg feed, rugging, what shoes the horse should wear and other things. Also while initially my trainer told me I was the main lessee and I would compete the horse and that he ‘would work with me’ and this other women had no interest in competing. Of course over time this all changed as she became keener. She almost became ‘stalker like’ in her approach and I have found out since she wanted to spend as much time as possible away from home as is quite unhappily married this is beside the point though as this wasn’t really my concern. She started to come and watch my lessons, my competitions and this made me feel increasingly uncomfortable and anxious but the trainer never said anything to her even though other people commented on how strange it all was. It also became obvious he was trying to pass more and more expenses onto us both and some of which should definitely have been his and not the lessee’s responsibility (the downfall of not having a proper contract in place I guess). I questioned some of these and of course he started to play us off against one another which became another source of frustration and anxiety for me and I’m sure he did this on purpose as she had no idea what she was paying for half the time as was initially in a type of honeymoon phase with it all so I also paid more than I probably should have expenses wise just to save face and to keep my place and make sure I wasn’t going to be being pushed out. He took full advantage of this which I wasn’t happy about.

When it became obvious she wanted to compete we worked out to share the events equally. This was ok but had it’s challenges at times and sometimes the instructor interfered and that just put an added to my stress and source of frustration. Anyway the crunch came after I stuck out all of the last winter which was awful as it was muddy and she wanted the horse kept on his property so she could see it every day and I wanted him to be taken to better grazing at his other property as we had done over previous winters. So we didn’t have to spend so much money on hard feeding as this is very costly. This was just so frustrating and upsetting for me as the horse had to stand in a yard for many days and nights being hard fed twice a day which he hated and lost so much condition it was just really upsetting. I tried to broach the subject with the instructor but each time I brought it up he said she wanted the horse kept there and she said he wanted to the horse kept there so I didn’t know who to believe and just had to back down as obviously it wasn’t going anywhere. Anyway as Spring approached and the show season began to start up again I started to think about putting a schedule together so we could work out things in advance and also our riding times as this was also beginning to get a little frustrating if I wanted to change a day or whatever due to my workflow fluctuating there seemed to be annoyance on her part to do this so I thought if we put an online schedule together then this would work out without having to have as much contact in person or via texting or phone calls which just wasn’t working well due to our business and misunderstandings on a number of occasions. Anyway her and I ended up having a huge fight one day due to a misunderstanding which also involved the instructor interfering whereas he shouldn’t have been and the rules constantly changing and not being discussed with all three parties. In the end I made the tough decision to bow out and look for another situation horsewise. This has been really difficult for me as not only do my friends still ride there but also I had to leave behind a horse I loved and had built such a bond with over time and to see someone else riding it now is almost heartbreaking. While I know he is being looked after I haven’t yet found myself another horse to ride but have secured local grazing and decided to be horseless over this winter although I am still on the lookout for another ‘lifetime’ horse. I haven’t ruled out leasing again but would never do it without a written contract that is something I would insist on. I may buy this time but of course that is a bigger commitment and I know I won’t have exactly the same situation I had before but I am trying to replicate it somewhat so at least I can still get to ride with my friends without having to be too involved with my former riding instructor who I’ve come to realise is not the person I thought he was. I will never put myself in such a vulnerable situation again as it just ultimately is not worth it for something that should be fun an enjoyable and it became anything but that in the end.

Mostly it was just too difficult sharing a horse with someone when it’s not organized properly at the beginning in regards to a contract and knowing where you stand with expenses and costs and what is expected of you. If I leased again I would insist on a written contact that works for both parties and can be reviewed over time so there is a chance for both parties to review and discuss what is and isn’t working much like a performance review at work I guess.

[Gardenhorse]

Sorry it didn’t work out for you, but sounds like you definitely learned a lot about how not to be taken advantage of in this type of situation in the future. It’s frustrating when people like your instructor turn out not to be the people we think they are. Best of luck in finding a new horse!

[NotGrandPrixYet]

I once half-leased one of my dressage horses to someone, and we worked out a very good schedule. It worked for a while until she got her own ideas of how he should be ridden and my horse started getting mixed signals. He started becoming noticeably less responsive. I have never done that again. Unless you both have the same riding and training philosophies and equal skill sets, then it really doesn’t work out well for the horse.