Yay Dittos! And Chemin de Fer!
What was the one with the tagline “we derriere you?”
[QUOTE=Carolinadreamin’;4179957]
Petra, what do you mean when you say “english riding”? Do you mean hunters, jumpers, dressage, or eventing? A world of difference between them. I have never notice the pressure of wearing a particular brand or the “right” helmet in eventing or dressage. Never. Have seen it in hunters, however. My last horse came from a very nice A-circuit barn. Almost every saddle in their tack room was a Devoucoux. The pressure to conform to a certain brand or wear the latest helmet seems more prevalent in the hunter world. Doesn’t make them bad or good, it is the way it is.
I found your comment about dressage attracting perfectionists quite humorous. Insecurity abounds in the horse world, be that western, english, endurance riding, living on online horse BBs, driving, etc.[/QUOTE]
I did see it way more in hunters than in dressage, but it came up sometimes in dressage when talking about brands of tack. I won’t disagree about there being insecurity in all disciplines, but I notice it making people less inclusive more often in dressage.
I’m not sure about exclusive in either sense…
I will say, if you can “bring it” you can do whatever you want. If you can ride the hair off the test, you can wear a top hat at 2nd, no jacket, off breed, whatever and everyone will only notice that you rode an excellent test.
If you are, ahem, not so gifted (bad riding)? Everyone will notice that you are a bad rider AND they will notice you wore a top hat at 2nd, no coat, and ride an off breed. 
[QUOTE=Ambrey;4179592]
There has been a kind of underlying theme to threads the last few days that got me thinking. The theme is that there are unwritten rules in dressage, and that those who do not follow them are not welcome. I’m talking specifically of the waived jackets and top hat threads.
The written rules we all know- but what about the basic premise? Is dressage an exclusive sport, open only those who are willing to embrace the culture? Or is dressage a sport open to those who can do the job, regardless of how they might fit in with the status quo?
.[/QUOTE]
Oh good grief!:no:
Who gives a flying “flower” what other people think??? Are you in this for the approval of others or for the love of the ART of dressage? Are you trying to find a clique to join or are you trying to learn and do the best by your horse and abide by the basic tenants of dressage?
Give it a break! :no:
I am way beyond measuring the worth of a person by their clothes (or anything else!). Do you want approval??? Then show your ability to ride and be the best you can be for your horse!!!
Why are you even asking this? :mad:
Curious what others think? Like to hear other people’s opinions? You choose I notice that you were one of the ones who disliked the idea of lower level riders wearing top hats, so it’s kind of interesting that this particular question offends you so!
When hunters are asked, it seems like the majority agree that it’s pretty exclusive, and that the appearance is a major part of the game. I was wondering whether there were many people who would be willing to voice a desire to keep dressage the same way
So far, not so much- seems like most people responding here believe that the fashion culture is not a core component in dressage
[QUOTE=Ambrey;4180634]
So far, not so much- seems like most people responding here believe that the fashion culture is not a core component in dressage :)[/QUOTE]
WOW!!! I always thought the core component of dressage was the Training Pyramid…Kind regards and hope you have a great time in your Top hat and Tails…:lol:
I think it can be either, but the “exclusivity” goes up as one goes up the levels, works with a BNT, boards at a fancier barn, etc. One just needs to find the setting that works! There will be snobby people, but there are also a lot of nice ones.
Oh yeah, I remember Dittos, too. They were the big thing when I was in 8th grade, and girls would compete to see who could get the most pairs, in the most unusual colors and fabrics, etc. One of my friends had over 100 pairs and she got every single one custom-altered to fit her perfectly! Yet she was still my friend, even though I had maybe 3 or 4 pairs. I do have to say, Dittos were fabulous pants for those of us with “junk in the trunk.”
To get back to the OP. I think dressage should be inclusive, and it mostly is. I’ve long noticed an improvement in stadium scores by eventing horses whose riders have improved their dressage. And certainly a field hunter does better with gates and other hunting requirements by understanding the use of the leg, which really isn’t a dressage concept but a good riding concept.
Of course, now and the we all get stuck in spelling it with a capital D, instead of thinking of it as it is, and was meant to be “training”.
You can find snobbery and exclusivity anywhere in life if you look hard enough. In your pursuit of dressage, how in the world should that matter at all? Your horse doesn’t give a rat’s rear end about what upper level rider A is wearing or what rider B thinks of you. The proof is in the riding. All else is simply excuses. You’ve got a good looking horse, ambrey. Ride him, enjoy him and don’t worry about anything else. It shouldn’t matter.
Well, I was going to say that, but CD said it first. Why look around and detect “undercurrents” in bulletin board posts? I went to my first A level dressage show yesterday with people from all over, (not to ride, but to groom and learn about how the classes work, about how the tests are run, about the details of performance and the details of presenting the work a rider has accomplished) and detected nothing but hard work going on, and friendliness from all quarters. There were some wonderful, high caliber horses and riders there, hard working trainers, riders, owners and support persons, like me. The variety of levels and what people wore was way low on the list of priorities. You try to look your best, clean off your boots before entering the ring, and the judge watches you run your test. Extremely high caliber judging, extremely good, kind and helpful responses from the judges. Isn’t that what you show for?
I detect an “undercurrent” in your posts, Ambrey, of social fear and concern about being ‘in’, fashion and buying things. That isn’t what dressage is about, and even though its what concerns you, its not what concerns other people. Its about the work and about self-improvement. Hopefully you’ll let go of the unimportant concerns which make you start these threads about exclusivity and start posting about the work you and your horse are doing!
[QUOTE=Arizona DQ;4180594]
Why are you even asking this? :mad:[/QUOTE]
“The food here is so bad.”
“Yes, and such small portions.”
~Woody AllenThere are unwritten rules in every one of life’s endeavors, equine and otherwise. As for being “unwelcome” if you don’t adhere to them, that depends on the individual. If you’re disrespectful, nasty, boring or in any respect a chore to be around, you won’t be welcome whether you go by the rules or not.
I did a story for a magazine years ago on why people get fired. The #1 reason was not performance-related – incompetence, tardiness and lack of experience were way down the list. Far and away the most common reason was the person’s inability to fit in with co-workers and get along with the manager. Lee Iacocca is probably the best example. He was the most successful man in the automotive industry in 1978. But he got fired anyway. When asked why, Henry Ford II said: “I never liked the son-of-a-bitch.”
True of the business world. True in dressage. If people like you, it won’t matter if you break a few unwritten rules. If you’re a pain in the ass, it will.
You can find snobbery and exclusivity anywhere in life if you look hard enough.
Yup.
I went to what most consider an “elite” Dressage barn with a Wintec AP saddle and a plow-horse for lessons. Every horse there was a brilliant Dressage prospect (or already a performer) and I believe all the riders had custom-fitted saddles. Getting the picture? I got some of the best instruction of my life and nothing but positivity from everyone there.
I also brought same plow-horse to some schooling shows, and had some good tests and bad. Lots of smiles and great comments from judges. I got a little too bold and brought her to a rated show too…that’s where the frowns, whispers and nasty comments came in. But you know what? Neither of us was ready for that show, and it showed. If we’d showed up the way we did and put in a SUPER test, no one would have been whispering and snarking.
I think a lot of the “undercurrents” you read are due to the fact that Dressage riders tend to be extremely focused perfectionists. Like all true perfectionists, they expect everyone around them to strive for the same level of perfection, with the same level of intensity. They truly view it as an insult to slap some black tack on your field Hunter and put in a sloppy Training Level. And in a lot of ways that IS an insult. Your sloppy test took another 5 minutes out of the show day, and made everyone’s wait a little longer.
Now, I am firmly in the camp that the only way for a lot of Adult Amateurs to improve is to get out and show, perfect or not…but pick the right venue if you’re not sure your pony will be okay with staying in the ring. That venue is not a rated show, generally.
[QUOTE=rugbygirl;4181364]
Yup.
Now, I am firmly in the camp that the only way for a lot of Adult Amateurs to improve is to get out and show, perfect or not…but pick the right venue if you’re not sure your pony will be okay with staying in the ring. That venue is not a rated show, generally.[/QUOTE]
Glad you added the “generally” qualifier. In some areas, schooling shows are few and far between. You want to show, you show rated. I’ve shown my greenie five times this year, so far. Four rated shows, one schooling show. There have been maybe three schooling shows within a reasonable distance, and one of them was MORE expensive than a rated show would have been, so I opted for the rated show. Sometimes you just don’t have the choice.
Yes, but her point was be prepared, and work hard - don’t go to any show and put in a sloppy test, or complain about how you were judged unfairly or the judge was prejudicial, a sloppy test, and lack of work shows, when you are among company who are working hard to put in a good test. You don’t have to be high level to put in a clean, well practiced test at whatever level you show, at whatever type of show you attend. Just my opinion.
I think the exclusivity in dressage, or any horse sport, exists on a barn-to-barn basis, and could be better termed “conformity.” There is a great deal of “my way or the highway” attitude about horses, training, and horsekeeping, that comes up mostly in the inner workings of particular barns.
Personal Story:
My TB Fancy hated to be blanketed and had, for 12 years, wintered mostly outside (with shelter/access to a stall) with his natural winter coat. I moved to him a barn at age 13 for a few months where EVERYONE blanketed and when I said I don’t blanket, they looked at me as if I was insane. So, anyways, we hit a 40 degree day (I live in MI) and sure enough, every other horse is all trussed up in their $$$ winter blankets. Fancy, in his growing wooly coat, really stuck out.
To make a long story short, the barn manager blanketed my horse with her blanket, simply to keep up appearances (he wasn’t acting cold). When I got to the barn, the barn manager said I could use her blanket until I “could afford one.” Um, since when did I say I couldn’t afford one?
Point of the story is, conformity is the name of the game in horses. Had I put a blanket on my horse at my old “non-blanketing” barn, I probably would have had to deal with the same stuff.
A lot of times a riding instructor/barn manager insists on micromanaging everyone’s horse, so that everyone is riding in the same bits, saddles, and doing the same things with feed/turnout, boots, shoes,etc. I love taking lessons, but I do get tired of being told 23049824398920 different things about how to manage my horse, depending on who my instructor is at the time.
but I do get tired of being told 23049824398920 different things about how to manage my horse, depending on who my instructor is at the time.
YES YES YES.
Sometimes I want to scream. Go to a different barn and now all of a sudden the knot that your previous instructor INSISTED was the only lead tie knot that wouldn’t kill your horse is now the exact knot that will surely cripple him for life. And no, you don’t grain by volume, it’s by WEIGHT (or vice versa) and it isn’t a DANDY brush it’s a long-bristled BODY brush (or whatever).
It’s like a lot of these people don’t know that there is sometimes more one right answer, and that for people who switch barns or have worked/volunteered at a variety, some of the stuff they absolutely LOSE THEIR POO about is a flavour-of-the-day thing that other barn managers insist goes the exact opposite way. :lol:
One thing that is consistent with all those neurotic manager types is that they are always happy to assume that you’re of sub-normal intelligence, so you can avoid conflict by acting dumb :o
Sadly exclusive. As in, students of the local BNT receiving inflated marks and placing over other riders despite multiple and obvious mistakes.
