Dressage- inclusive or exclusive?

[Ambrey]

There has been a kind of underlying theme to threads the last few days that got me thinking. The theme is that there are unwritten rules in dressage, and that those who do not follow them are not welcome. I’m talking specifically of the waived jackets and top hat threads.

The written rules we all know- but what about the basic premise? Is dressage an exclusive sport, open only those who are willing to embrace the culture? Or is dressage a sport open to those who can do the job, regardless of how they might fit in with the status quo?

By the way, “exclusive” has kind of double meaning here.

By the way, everyone I’ve met in person, from training level riders to USDF gold medalist trainers, has been extremely inclusive. I’ve only seen the exclusive argument online.

[slc2]

I think you’re putting your own spin on it. No one ever said what your ‘undercurrent’ says. They whined about clothes, they whined about hats, that isn’t the same as actually ‘not wanting someone around’ or even making them feel unwelcome.

I don’t like someone wearing a top hat at first level with a short coat, but I would never, ever make that known at a show or treat anyone any differently because of that.

I seriously doubt anyone who whined about top hats would go up to someone at a show and spit in their oatmeal, or do anything openly upleasant, or even imply something unpleasant or in the least way negative.

The internet is where people come to thump their chests and throw sticks down from their leaf nests, and generally act like animals - they behave better in real life.

[Ambrey]

LOL, that wasn’t my point, SLC. I was simply wondering how pervasive the attitude was. Exclusive is not a dirty word.

[slc2]

This is America. Of course it is a dirty word, and I’m sure you meant it to be. I think it’s your ‘draft-horse-at-the-olympics’ thing rearing its ugly head again.

[Carolinadreamin]

Those who worry about such things obviously have too much time on their hands…time which would be better spent riding.

How many shows have you ridden in? Do you honestly feel your score was directly impacted by what you or another rider was wearing or perhaps the saddle pad color? Why do you ride? Enjoy the pursuit of dressage for the challenge it presents to both you and your horse. Everything else should not matter.

[Ambrey]

@slc2;4179611

This is America. Of course it is a dirty word, and I’m sure you meant it to be. I think it’s your ‘draft-horse-at-the-olympics’ thing rearing its ugly head again.

Um, how long have you lived in America, SLC? “Exclusive” is still used as a positive adjective to mean “fashionable, catering to the wealthy.”

To me, comments like “one should always wear a jacket” and “top hats are for upper levels” are indications of exclusivity.

I actually hadn’t thought of the draft horse issue, as the last draft horse I saw going at a show was ridden by someone wearing an earned top hat I believe he won his classes as well.

And, no, I don’t believe the vast majority of judges would be affected by such things, which is another reason I wonder why people find them important.

[Dressage_Art]

[QUOTE=Ambrey;4179592]
The theme is that there are unwritten rules in dressage, and that those who do not follow them are not welcome.[/QUOTE]Kind of cool high school cliques? He-he! Those people should realize that they are Dressage Queens And may be ask themselves how important it was for them to wear a “cool” jeans or “cool” jacket 20 years ago? I don’t even remember what I was wearing back then.

[BuddyRoo]

I was always really intimidated by dressage and H/J riders for that matter.

My perception (coming from a Western background) was that if your horse wasn’t X breed of the day and your clothes weren’t X brand of the day that folks didn’t want you around.

Well. There certainly ARE those types. But in my limited experience thus far, I’ve found that the folks whose horsemanship, riding, etc I admire most are also very welcoming and encouraging. It seems like the ones who are snotty about stuff are maybe acting based on their own insecurities.

That’s no different than any other discipline or sport.

[egontoast]

There has been a kind of underlying theme to threads the last few days that got me thinking. The theme is that there are unwritten rules in dressage, and that those who do not follow them are not welcome. I’m talking specifically of the waived jackets and top hat threads.

The written rules we all know- but what about the basic premise? Is dressage an exclusive sport, open only those who are willing to embrace the culture? Or is dressage a sport open to those who can do the job, regardless of how they might fit in with the status quo?

Ever hear the expression, ‘not seeing the forest for the trees?’

I think you are focussing on the wrong things. What to wear? How to be accepted in the in crowd? Shopping ? Chip on the shoulder about the draft cross? Chip on the shoulder about being overweight? Chip on the shoulder…you can fill in the blanks.

All just excuses and distractions from the process of learning to ride well and train well.

Those who ride well are rewarded by the fact that they rode well even if no one else notices except the horse.

[kdow]

@slc2;4179600

I think you’re putting your own spin on it. No one ever said what your ‘undercurrent’ says. They whined about clothes, they whined about hats, that isn’t the same as actually ‘not wanting someone around’ or even making them feel unwelcome.

I don’t like someone wearing a top hat at first level with a short coat, but I would never, ever make that known at a show or treat anyone any differently because of that.

I seriously doubt anyone who whined about top hats would go up to someone at a show and spit in their oatmeal, or do anything openly upleasant, or even imply something unpleasant or in the least way negative.

This. I might think it looks strange (because it’s not what I expect to see) but if I said anything at all it’d just be on the basis of I think most people should be wearing helmets anyway, 'cause I’m a helmet every ride kind of person.

I mean, I’m sure there are places where having the right brand of whatever is the most important thing - because some people LIKE that kind of environment. But there’s plenty of other places where how you ride is more important than the breed of horse you’re riding or what you’re wearing while you ride (provided it’s safe attire, of course.)

It’s unfortunate that some people are going to run into one of those ‘right brand’ places as their first introduction to a new sport, and think that’s what it’s about, but at the same time, it’s not like you can really say to the ‘right brand’ people that THEY don’t deserve to ride - that’s being just as exclusive as the other way around.

[slc2]

There’s just as much reverse snobbism around, well, actually, I think there is more.

Warmbloods stink, are insensitive, stupid, not ‘real’ dressage horses, <whatever breed I have> is far better, warmbloods are incapable of loving their owners, nice riding clothing stinks and is a waste of money, no horse is worth paying more than 2000 dollars for, people who win at shows can’t ride, they just cheated, judges suck and don’t know ‘real dressage’, people who have money don’t love their horses as much as people who don’t, people who show more don’t love their horses as much as people who don’t show a lot, people who work with more well known trainers are just cougars or fawning toadies, blah blah blah…and all things I have been told with the utmost sincerity.

Honestly I believe there is more of that than the other ‘snobbism’. And actually I think it’s far, far more annoying, because people so blindly accept that THAT sort of junk is ok, and the other is so, so different from what they are wallowing in.

[FriesianX]

[QUOTE=Dressage Art;4179626]
And may be ask themselves how important it was for them to wear a “cool” jeans or “cool” jacket 20 years ago? I don’t even remember what I was wearing back then.[/QUOTE]

Dittos pants - remember them? And bell bottoms? And remember Chemin De Fer sailor pants? I saved my babysitting money for months to buy a pair:lol:

[asb_own_me]

@Ambrey;4179623

To me, comments like “one should always wear a jacket” and “top hats are for upper levels” are indications of exclusivity.

I consider a top hat an earned part of your dress … similar to earning your colors on the hunt field. It signifies (or SHOULD signify) a certain level of achievement. And respect.

If earning something by achievement in sport is “exclusive”, then damn skippy I think dressage and about any other sport should be a little more exclusive.

[JRG]

Just because you weigh in on a topic doesn’t make you anysort of DQ, or would exclude anyone.

When people post things they are asking your opinion. If I were at a horse show and someone asked me something, I would give them my honest although softened answer if I felt that the answer was not going to be to their likeing but it would be a direct answer.

That being said…not once have I ever looked around a dressage show ground and worried one fig about what anyone else was doing or wearing for that matter and know what ever asked me what I felt about anything.

As far as changing anything, I have my little things I would like to adjust (remember the coat thread) but I want to play so I mold to what is the norm and pick my battles on the things I can have fun with.

I have done a lot of discipines and everyone of them has that “unwritten rule book”. Dressage does not have exclusivity.

[Sacred_Petra]

I think socially, dressage tends to be a more exclusive sport. In the show ring, the judging is as fair as any sport, and no one would say anything to another person if they didn’t follow an unwritten rule, but outside of the show ring it seems more exclusive than other disciplines. In english riding, I’ve noticed people seem more brand exclusive, where product A from brand X is obviously better than the same product from brand Y, and because some BNT supports brand x, those of us who have brand X are better than those of us with brand Y. I will say though, most of my experience in this regard comes from riding at expensive show barns that catered to the very wealthy, so that may have been a contributing factor.

I do have to agree with BuddyRoo though, and say that the people who are more secure with themselves, are often very inclusive and welcoming. IME, this is how most of life is (it was this way when I danced, and the music world is the same way too), but dressage attracts more perfectionists who are more likely to be insecure. :shrugs: JMO.

[TheHorseProblem]

[QUOTE=FriesianX;4179920]
Dittos pants - remember them? And bell bottoms? And remember Chemin De Fer sailor pants? I saved my babysitting money for months to buy a pair:lol:[/QUOTE]

Well, you know what they say–if you’re old enough to have worn them once, and they come back in style, you can’t wear them again!

I’m just waiting for this whole low rise thing to go away.

[Carolinadreamin]

Petra, what do you mean when you say “english riding”? Do you mean hunters, jumpers, dressage, or eventing? A world of difference between them. I have never notice the pressure of wearing a particular brand or the “right” helmet in eventing or dressage. Never. Have seen it in hunters, however. My last horse came from a very nice A-circuit barn. Almost every saddle in their tack room was a Devoucoux. The pressure to conform to a certain brand or wear the latest helmet seems more prevalent in the hunter world. Doesn’t make them bad or good, it is the way it is.

I found your comment about dressage attracting perfectionists quite humorous. Insecurity abounds in the horse world, be that western, english, endurance riding, living on online horse BBs, driving, etc.

[TheHorseProblem]

[QUOTE=Carolinadreamin’;4179957]
I have never notice the pressure of wearing a particular brand or the “right” helmet in eventing or dressage. Never. [/QUOTE]

I have seen it in dressage, but I don’t think the riding discipline is the problem. I think the tone is set by the head trainer. I read in the saddle threads quite often that “everyone in my barn rides in a County (or whatever brand).” I was briefly in a BNT’s barn 9 years ago, and everyone there rode in a La Bella or some such brand. Later I rode with a trainer who always had two or three clients at the shows on their Arabians or TB’s competing against big expensive horses, and having a great time. Everything in her tack room was brand X. They thought I was a snob because I had a saddle cover for my Passier, and Cavallo boots (purchased in Germany when the dollar was strong) that I wiped off after every ride and kept in a boot bag.

I have to take care of my stuff. I can’t afford to replace it.

[Dressage_Art]

[QUOTE=TheHorseProblem;4179952]
if you’re old enough to have worn them once, and they come back in style, you can’t wear them again! ;)[/QUOTE]:lol:Well, my hubby is patiently waiting for the parashoot pants to come back, so he can stuff his pockets with even more stuff!!!

[TheHorseProblem]

My other favorite thing to say is that just because they make it in my size does not mean I should wear it.

I watched Baby Boom the other day and thought I’d revisit the 80’s trend of buttoning the shirt all the way up to my neck and wearing a brooch. I could not button the top button.

I still tuck my shirt in to my breeches though!