I am so so familiar with this (and with being in the saddle fitting boonies). So many saddles would look perfect standing still on my Welsh Cob and then would bounce in the back (and not just a little) when he moved.
Good luck on the AE search, they are not super common but tend to be reasonably priced from what I’ve seen when you do. I’ll keep my eyes out for you.
for a pear shaped horse (narrower shoulder than barrel) add a point billet system to your list. This billet configuration will help keep the saddle from creeping forward as it can do with horses of this shape.
Thanks for the commiseration and eyes out, @CobJockey! Saddle searching starts out fun and then turns into misery.
@jonem004, a point billet is definitely useful for my guy. (OMG, pear-shaped, YES!) He also has a very forward girth groove, so he gets anatomical girths.
My budget has been creeping up of necessity—first $1500 a year and a half ago, then $2K, then $2500, now $3K… I don’t know how much new Adam Ellises go for, but I’m guessing $3K+ and much less than a Custom? Maybe I could order a monoflap… I feel like my AE Chloe for $1K was an absolute steal. I don’t mind buying a saddle that’s tough to resell, especially if it’s pretty adjustable so that it’s less likely to have to.
Anyone know much about whether any Patrick saddles have straighter trees?
@CanteringOn - I scanned through your thread and didn’t see too much about Black Country saddles? I have a 15.3 tubular Morgan. They sound quite similar – flat back, forward girth groove, round but narrow pear shaped 
I’ve had great luck with Black Country Eloquence with the classic tree. I just picked up a used one out of the UK for $1250 shipped. Usually used ones go for closer to $1800 - $2k so well within you budget.
My jump saddle is a Black Country Ricochet for reference. Trumbull Mountain is a large Black Country dealer and does great at long distance fitting.
Great to know, @CELook! I’ve never sat in a Black Country but I’ve heard good things, and will keep my eyes out now.
Is your Morgan tent-shaped along the spine or more filled-out? Mine’s definitely tent-shaped, despite being in work 6 days/week (half of them by my trainer). He also gets a muscle-building supplement, but it doesn’t really seem to be helping. I’m hoping getting him a better-fitting saddle will help him build topline, but so far it’s been a big struggle.
He is a little tent-y. Lacks muscling at that point right in front of the withers and then thins a bit over his back. Kind of had the same struggle you are having. He was in an ill-fitting saddle for about a year and he definitely has some topline deficiencies and damage to his withers because of it. He is on an amino acid supplement to help with his topline and I’ve been working on lunging and under saddle exercises to build his topline. It is a slow work in progress. I’ve read that it can take up to a year to see improvements when muscles are under stress from a poor saddle fit.
D’oh, that’s my fear. And their backs do sound pretty similar! Which gives me hope that an Eloquence might be an option.
Mine’s on SmartPak Muscle Mass supplement, and was on Uckele Tri-Amino before that, but I’m not certain they’ve actually helped. I really want to find him a saddle that fits.
Those I’ve known with Patrick saddles did not have very straight backed horses, FWIW. For around 3k, look at some Takt saddles. The fitter we discussed has those and the ones I tried were too straight in the tree for my horse. Some of the models are more expensive, but she will sell you a demo if it fits. They also give you a loaner while yours is being made if you order new. The blocks on the non-monoflap models Velcro so you can change them. I know you think you want a monoflap but I think that will entirely depend on the saddle as a whole…coming from as you know a h/j rider used to close contact and who has the same knee issues as you with dressage tack.
Also consider Prestige. We have a rep on the front range. The trees didn’t work for my horse because he is not tent shaped enough (squeezed him too much), but they can have a good amount of shoulder room and there should be more used ones floating around…
Great tips, @IPEsq! Off to check on both of those. 
The tent-shape Prestiges might end up being great for my guy. As for the Takts, my Adam Ellis Chloe jump saddle has velcro blocks, and they’re definitely handy.
I just spotted a petite-flap Custom Wolfgang Omni for (sigh) $1000 above my budget, and I’m not even sure it’s still available. The Omni also seemed to be just a little bit wider in the twist than I’d prefer, but I might be very willing to trade twist narrowness for my horse’s awesome canter in the Omni, with my butt barely having to move.
Horses are absolute hell on wallets. My poor DH had no idea of that when he suggested I finally get a horse, and I had only the vaguest idea. Live and learn.
Yep, I’ve hit the “bring them on, I want this over with!” stage of dressage saddle shopping. My horse is such a weird little puzzle of a fit, and with me needing a shortish flap (dang it!) I’m now open to trialing multiple saddles at the same time. I’m armed with photos and wither tracings. May the best saddle win…while my wallet cries.
I was thinking about ordering a new Adam Ellis (throw money at the problem and get it custom-fitted!) since I love my Chloe jump saddle, but after talking with a rep, the lengthy wait has put me off for the time being.
I now have a 39-page(!) document going listing the brands, models, pros/cons of each, which ones are new in my price range, and for used, the individual saddles for sale that I’ve found on eBay, Facebook, and online tack shops and saddleries. (Have I mentioned how sucky it is to live in a rural area while saddle shopping instead of just wandering over to a well-stocked tack shop???)
I have saddle #1 on the way to trial — a used petite-flap Custom Wolfgang Omni. I rode in a 17 and a 17.5 for a little while at a fitting two weeks ago. My horse seemed to love it, while I liked it. But since I loved his canter in it… I will have to see how it treats my ladybits, which can get tender in certain saddles. :ambivalence:
I was very interested in a Black County Vinici I found at a good price and was going to trial it too, but discovered it’s a M. I called the state BC rep but she doesn’t adjust trees, so I’m bummed. The M might fit him now, especially if it’s a generous M, but if he develops at all…I think I’d need to go MW to be safe, and then use a pad to fill in any space now. So I think this Vinici is out, and that maybe Black Country is a little too risky for me until I know whether my horse’s shape is likely to change. 
Prestige was mentioned to me somewhere, but I seem to see only curvy trees and/or upswept panels on them, neither or which my straight-and-long-backed horse needs. I hear good things about Albion, though it sounds like my horse needs a high-head + straight tree and I’m not sure which models would work. I love what I hear about Trilogies, and used ones are in my price range, but there’s no Trilogy fitter in this state—so like BC, risky.
In my research I rolled across mentions of Reactor Panel / EQ Saddle Science as well as WOW saddles. I like that they are adjustable. Takt has been mentioned to me a couple of times, though I know they’re newer, so I’m less likely to find ones in my price range. I’ve never sat in a Hennig and would like to try one. (Used, definitely used…)
Smith-Worthington and Hastilow/Fairfax are rising up my list. (Though IIRC, Fairfax makes both Hastilow and K&M. I rode in a K&M S-Series Pony Jump and it felt like there were bricks under my seat bones after about half an hour. But I’m not sure if that means saddles made by Fairfax are wrong for my anatomy, or if that was just a fluke.)
Anyway… girds loins, gears up for the saddle trials
also stashes chocolate away for bad saddle search days
The narrowest twist I’ve found is the Custom Advantage R and I finally found one used for myself. I’ve been looking since August. See if you can ride in one. I’ve ridden in most of the Custom saddles and many other saddles, including the Trilogys. They all hurt my hips. The Advantage R fits me like a glove and I go Ahhhhh when I sit in it. Mine arrived today and I can’t wait to put it on my guy tomorrow. It’s the only one that works for both of us.
YMMV.
Edited to add, my guy is going to be 5 in May and is a warmblood so I wanted something that could possibly fit him in the future, grow with us. The Advantage has a metal tree that can be adjusted, my fitter will only adjust it once or twice so the integrity of it isn’t compromised. But this gives him room to grow. And he seems to be between a M and a MW tree in most saddles right now. He’s 16.1 at this point in time.
FWIW, I have found a world of difference in the way a Fairfax or Kent and Masters saddle feels to ride in and a Hastilow. The Hastilows are like couches. And while based on the same “Simatree” technology, they really are pretty independent of the others. That being said, the twist in the Hastilows is NOT narrow and the flap is longish. So that rules that one out!
@chantal, I’m with you, I LOOOOVE the Advantage. I own an older one, my trainer has one, and I trialed one a couple of weeks ago. The monoflap version is an “ahhh” saddle for me! So comfortable for my leg position — everything hangs just where it should. Unfortunately the tree is too curvy for my horse. He seemed to love the Wolfgang Omni, so I’m giving that a try first. I think the twist is a little wider in the Omni, but I haven’t ridden in one long enough yet to know whether that’s a real problem for me or not. Hopefully I’ll know in a week or so.
@scruffy the cat, that’s good info about Fairfax/K&M vs. Hastilow! I’d love a couch. But D’OH about the longer flap on Hastilows. I wonder if I could order a short-flap, though, or look for a used one? And I have to see whether I truly need the narrow twist or not. Hopefully the Omni trial next week will be a good test of that. I hope I can go wider in the twist if needed, just because that would be one less “must have” in my already-long list of requirements. :-/
Hi again CanteringOn
Fellow boarder who just bought a very small horse has a nice MW Prestige for sale from her previous horse. Having looked at a few now, I disagree that they are all curvy/upswept, although you can certainly get them like that. The person who knows the most about Prestige in this area is Bev at The Tack Collection. Might be worth trying? WOW has a rep local to the Front Range. Happy Horse has a MW Black Country, and I forget which model but 2 of the more petite riders at my barn have recently tried it and love it. It’s a 17.5 but appears to fit more like a 17. Also Happy Horse has a nice used Hennig that almost fit my guy in the back but did fit his shoulder, which you may want to try. Flap might be too long, but the twist is certainly narrow and it’s a close feel–my horse’s canter was just “meh” in it so I passed.
Of all of the above, the only one I’ve tried is the Hennig, and it passed the hip pain test. I think the WOW rep is coming to my barn today or tomorrow, and I can ask the people shopping what they thought of those saddles.
I could put you in touch with the other boarder if you want–she may have put her saddle up on eBay. You might need to make a trek this direction if the Wolfgang doesn’t work.
Hi there, @IPEsq! Oooh, sounds like Happy Horse has some things that aren’t listed online, like that BC. Looks like they also have a couple of Takts on closeout that I could sit in just to get a feel, because I’m now thinking about those. And since I haven’t sat in a Hennig yet, that’s another one to target. I love that it’s already got your “no hip pain” approval. squints at calendar, thinks about when I could get down there
I’m glad to hear that Prestige can do straighter/non-upswept trees, since they can be nicely priced on the used market. I’d love that boarder’s info or the eBay listing so I could take a look. IF it’s this one(?), the panels do kinda look too upswept for my straight-and-long-backed boy: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Prestige-Dressage-Saddle-17-inch-Black-Condition-used/153423300893
And yes, would love to know what your barnmates think of the WOW. I love the idea of them, though I wonder if the execution can truly be as good on a modular saddle. But heck, maybe it can. It would certainly be nicer (plus more cost-effective) to swap out parts as my horse’s back develops instead of going through another lengthy and frustrating saddle search.
I couldn’t believe how warm it was in the mountains today. Got outside for a trail ride (up the road, for a few miles but still) for the first time since October! Yay for spring! I hope it was glorious down on the Front Range, too.
That’s not her Prestige. I’ll try to find the info. Hers was fitted to a Friesian if that helps. I took a quick peek at the WOW. Concept is interesting. But I’m not sure about execution. Twist seemed so so so wide and balance point too far back for my taste.
Uh-oh, wide twist and rearward balance points would be harbingers of badness for me, too. Thanks for tracking down the Prestige!
I just put together a Wow jump saddle for my very wide Andalusian cross. He’s in a 5U headplate, which is equivalent to about a 3X-wide. The twist doesn’t feel very wide by any means, especially considering how wide the saddle is to accommodate his roundness. I feel super secure in it and it hasn’t been sliding to the side when cantering, which is kind of miraculous. I’m still working on the perfect fit (I think I need panels with rear gussets and possibly the fore girth option) but I’m confident I can get it right.
It will likely be above your budget if bought new. The good thing about them is that once you know the parts that you need, you can buy them used, likely from the UK where they’ve been around for a while. I bought a used seat and panels and new super short flaps since I’m 5’-nothing tall. If I hadn’t needed custom flaps I probably could have put it together for about $2500. The flaps put me well over that price, but I’m hoping to never need to by another set of jump flaps again!
I’m going to keep an eye out for a set of used flaps that I can use to convert it to a dressage saddle, which for my short legs will likely be VSD flaps.
I’m back to Square One on the saddle search. Well, maybe Square Two at least…
The petite-flap 17" Custom Saddlery Wolfgang Omni fit my horse GREAT (I made a homemade “Port Lewis Impression Pad” to check.) Yay!
But alas, this particular saddle did not fit ME so well. The seat was awesome, but the knee block — a Solo Long Roll — was way too straight for me. At first, after riding in lessons, I thought I’d be able to get used to it; then I took it on a hilly trail ride, and going downhill, OMG OW OW OW. My knees smashed into the roll, and that jammed my femurs into my hip sockets. I was in misery. My hunter hips just couldn’t take it.
So, at least I know the Wolfgang Omni fits my horse well. My next attempt will probably be an Omni with an R2 long roll like on my trainer’s Steffen’s Advantage. I tried the R1 short roll on a couple of demo addles several weeks ago, and I thought I would love it, but the extra “bubble” of leather below the roll bugged my kneecap. I’ll save the R1s for a future round. Meanwhile I’m not sure if the change from the Steffen’s Advantage to the Omni will affect how I like the R2 roll, but I’ll find out.
The downside is that I’ve been unable to spot any used petite-flap Omnis in 17 or 17.5, or indeed any other used 17s with an R2/R1 block at all. So I’ll be moving up to a 17.5 with the regular (16") flap, and I found three used ones out there. The 17.5 demos felt a little looser than I’d like, but maybe still doable.
I’m still interested in checking out other saddles out there, and it seems like there are so many left to see — Adam Ellis Avanti, Prestige, Takt TSD-34, Hennig, Black Country Eloquence or Vinici, Trilogy, WOWs and EQ Saddle Science/Reactor Panel. BUT I feel like I got half the battle won by finding something that fit my horse so well, so now I should run all the way down this Omni hallway first before turning around and entering another part of the maze. :lol:
@shortenmyreins, really good to hear your progress with the WOW. I have my fingers crossed that you’ll get your ideal saddle with a few little swaps. Keep me posted, maybe I’ll be heading down that hallway after you do.
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